21 replies to this topic

[brokenportal]

Some of us want to install a team project where people join the team who commit to responding to a minimum of 2 topics in a list of action orientated topic links. The 2 topic minimum has just been set up, and the team really hasnt even moved yet, so it is pretty much a new team that needs to be enacted. I created the list, it has 72 in it, so we are calling it the 72 team. By joining this team, members will help keep action topics bumped into the active topics section of ImmInst. LEEEP is a list of projects that may work with ImmInst, but are also more for the cause in general, they are more universal. The 72 team is made of all imminst fabric and so thats why we want to put it in the ImmInst projects.

The team is all plotted out and ready to go with its guideline structure now put in place, here: http://www.imminst.o...showtopic=26664

This is crucial. As it stands, action discussion makes up maybe, 5% of the active topics. Action discussion is the lifesblood of any cause. By enacting this team will create another useful tool in helping to keep action discussion flowing in more members heads more of the time and we will be able to send more and more of the right signal to new members.

As it stands, many life extensionists that are new to imminst, and people that want to learn about life extension see mostly off topic and supplements discussion. Many leave because they maybe dont think we are serious minded and or they think we are a big supplements selling gimmick. I dont think that this is necessarily the fault of to many supplements and off topics discussions, I think that a big part of it is also that there is just simply not enough action discussion, when there is more, it should balance out with all the other discussion well.

Also, by enacting this 72 team, we will also just inspire and help create and generate more action discussion besides these 72 in general.

I say we find a team captain/ project champion and move this project to the imminst projects right away. Its one small simple project that will go along ways. I think its also a good way to help get this projects section moving.

Edited by caliban, 06 June 2009 - 01:03 AM.
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[caliban]

Thank you for your suggestion brokenportal, the recorders deadline for this idea is April 14th.
Just to clarify: you don't envisage that funding will be required for this initiative?

I will have some other questions and comments, but maybe other recorders or members could chime in first?

[caliban]

Some meta comments, as we are still new at this:
It is the job of the recorders to help with improving ideas and to make them ready for board approval.
If an idea has generated the interest of volunteers and there are no monetary expenses involved, the board will rarely reject an idea unless it damages the reputation of the institute or is detrimental to the common goal.
As a recorder I am interested if we can find some ways to improve the idea.

Some questions:
-1- Could you re-design the way the project is presented?
Firstly, let me say that the presentation of this project has already improved a lot. When first I looked there was some rambling text, a huge and badly formatted list with some clearly pointless links, and a video with some half naked proto-Nazis extolling the virtue of suicide and slaughter. This was just my impression, and clearly, it did not turn off other potential collaborators, but if this was an official ImmInst project, one would have to consider the presentation. Eg:
the indefinity cause? Indefinity=quality of being vague and poorly defined
The work of every squad in every battle helps win the war. That type of militaristic rhetoric (what war are you fighting at ImmInst – this is a forum for friends and colleagues?) and the picture that goes with it may appeal to some of our audience but it may put off others.
I also think the list should stand by itself, the follow-up discussion is distracting.

-2- how do you avoid a situation that leads to people 'bumping 'a topic not because they have something useful to say, but because it is their 'mission'? This has already lead to a situation where one does not even click on a topic because it is plain to see that some busybody has just gone into a particular forum with a 'bumping' mission. Forums are organic entities. Topics live and die and get resurrected – no-one objects to a bit of 'gardening' but one has to be careful not to introduce a stilted artificiality.

-3- why 72? That is your selection of everything that is of interest at ImmInst, it may not be mine or someone else's? The list is really long, which may put some people off. Most importantly, the list leaves no room for new topics.

My preliminary suggestion:
The team meets regularly and decides on the 5 'hot topics of the week'. These could be picked from your list or be new topics suggested by someone else. They should usually represent a good mix of forum discussions.
These selected topics could then be actively contributed to, they could be linked from the frontpage, referenced in the newsletter, people known for their special interest or expertise in the area could be alerted to the topic, and navigators could be asked to have a special watch over these topics to maintain their quality. Quotes from the topic could be used on the front-page for a time, thus honouring high quality contributions.
That may be a tiny bit more work for the volunteers than clicking on a topic and going "bump" but it would add a lot more value overall. Do you think that could be a workable suggestion?

[Shepard]

-2- how do you avoid a situation that leads to people 'bumping 'a topic not because they have something useful to say, but because it is their 'mission'? This has already lead to a situation where one does not even click on a topic because it is plain to see that some busybody has just gone into a particular forum with a 'bumping' mission. Forums are organic entities. Topics live and die and get resurrected – no-one objects to a bit of 'gardening' but one has to be careful not to introduce a stilted artificiality.

This has also been my main concern. With the new active topics options, I'm not sure if the original argument is as strong anymore (keeping action topics in Active Topics). If we merely have a large amount of topics being kept there with "I agree", the Action forum might be another one that people put on their ignore list.

Edited by Shepard, 09 April 2009 - 09:36 PM.

[brokenportal]

Some meta comments, as we are still new at this:
It is the job of the recorders to help with improving ideas and to make them ready for board approval.
If an idea has generated the interest of volunteers and there are no monetary expenses involved, the board will rarely reject an idea unless it damages the reputation of the institute or is detrimental to the common goal.
As a recorder I am interested if we can find some ways to improve the idea.

By building on small projects like these, we can reach a level where we can focus on bigger and better projects. I think that many projects, large and medium, and small grass roots type projects like this are right up our alley at this stage in our growth, you seem to agree. I hope that projects like these dont become stifled because they arent the kind that might be able to be presented right into some kind of "Better Business Magazine" or the like. Im always interested in tweaking ideas for improvement too.

Some questions:
-1- Could you re-design the way the project is presented?
Firstly, let me say that the presentation of this project has already improved a lot. When first I looked there was some rambling text, a huge and badly formatted list with some clearly pointless links, and a video with some half naked proto-Nazis extolling the virtue of suicide and slaughter. This was just my impression, and clearly, it did not turn off other potential collaborators, but if this was an official ImmInst project, one would have to consider the presentation. Eg:
the indefinity cause? Indefinity=quality of being vague and poorly defined
The work of every squad in every battle helps win the war. That type of militaristic rhetoric (what war are you fighting at ImmInst – this is a forum for friends and colleagues?) and the picture that goes with it may appeal to some of our audience but it may put off others.
I also think the list should stand by itself, the follow-up discussion is distracting.

Can it be redesigned some more? Sure. The persuasive peice that was there is more of a stand alone persuasive peice than the entrance information to a project so I moved it. The new peice is designed to be concise and get straight to the point in an easy to understand way, and can still be tweaked. The persuasive peice may not have moved you, but it sounds like you didnt even read it, which is fine, and criticism is fine and welcome, but Im not sure how you can criticisize something you havent read. Unless your talking most pointedly about how it makes a poor opener to a project, with that I agree.

This is a war on aging. Like MacArthur said, "It is fatal to enter any war with out the will to win it." In that light, it is even more fatal still to enter the situation as though it isnt even a war. We wont win treating this like a novel hobby, or a secondary task, a lesser priority, something to possibly forget about or something like that. The point is to work to try to help keep a theme of electricity in the air. There are a lot of other persuasive themes or slogans that can be used. If you want to suggest one then maybe we could go with that.

The definition of indefinity is "vague and poorly defined" thats what we are going for, a vague and poorly defined end of our life times. The reason the definition doesnt match more precisely is because the word hasnt historically been used in the light of life extension. Doesnt vague and poorly defined ellude to or directly mean, "no boundaries, undefined". Now that the cause is evolving we have a need for terms like these but there arent many. We may as well start introducing them in these contexts. If you think it should be taken out though then let me know because you may be right, and thats a whole other discussion that of course doesnt need to hold up this project because I want to make the case.

Take out the discussion after the project, good idea. Im on the fence with that one, not sure if it should be left in or not. If you want then we can try it with out and then maybe reserve response space for special addendums and the like.

-2- how do you avoid a situation that leads to people 'bumping 'a topic not because they have something useful to say, but because it is their 'mission'? This has already lead to a situation where one does not even click on a topic because it is plain to see that some busybody has just gone into a particular forum with a 'bumping' mission. Forums are organic entities. Topics live and die and get resurrected – no-one objects to a bit of 'gardening' but one has to be careful not to introduce a stilted artificiality.

The forum filtering option seems to have increased the action discussion a little bit, but not a lot. I think that along with this 72 team, and others, that they will feed off each other and work together excellently to generate more and more indefinite life extension action discussion. This project is really only needed for the time being, to try to help prime the action. It probably only needs about 10 members for about 6 months although we can evolve that as we go.

Nobody is looking for a bump fest, that is true. I dont think it will be. I think the 72 team members will have plenty to write, and that the additional action discussion the team helps bring to the top of the active topics list will generate visibility and recognition of more action discussion, which will help generate more from all for all. We could though take precautions by writing more about this into the rules. There are many ways around a potential bump fest. There are some good ideas that you suggest. I think this might even become a good excercise for challenging people to contribute. Maybe thats a part of what a lot of us need. I mean, if there is a project where it is expected of us to, for example, include a quote and a reference in every response, then I think I may jump at that. It would be interesting and challenging. One good way to motivate people is to throw down challenges.

-3- why 72? That is your selection of everything that is of interest at ImmInst, it may not be mine or someone else's? The list is really long, which may put some people off. Most importantly, the list leaves no room for new topics.

For the sake of moving the project forward, why not? Some revising is good most of the time, and a lot of revising is good some of the time. I think this is a case of some revising because the project is simple, probably temporary, and just fits the profile. Its not exactly my selection. I went through the first 2 or 3 pages of 3 action forums and picked out every action orientated topic. Another project like this, like for example, another 72, could be picked and set up in another team just like this. This is just a cross sample, as it is all this project really requires to help prime the active topics section. Its a long list, relative to perspective yes, but the non action topics in the active topics section is even longer yet. The point is for team members to pick random topics and comment on them to keep a variety of concepts circulating in the most visible topics list, which is the active topics list.

It doesnt need new topics. That would be alright, but for the sake of simplicity I didnt write it in. If we wanted, we could have the team captain rotate say, 10 new topics in per week, and rotate 10 out or something like that.

My preliminary suggestion:
The team meets regularly and decides on the 5 'hot topics of the week'. These could be picked from your list or be new topics suggested by someone else. They should usually represent a good mix of forum discussions.
These selected topics could then be actively contributed to, they could be linked from the frontpage, referenced in the newsletter, people known for their special interest or expertise in the area could be alerted to the topic, and navigators could be asked to have a special watch over these topics to maintain their quality. Quotes from the topic could be used on the front-page for a time, thus honouring high quality contributions.
That may be a tiny bit more work for the volunteers than clicking on a topic and going "bump" but it would add a lot more value overall. Do you think that could be a workable suggestion?

So in conclusion, along with your ideas here:

a. Ill create a breaker at the top of the 72 reserved for 5 hot topics, to be rotated every week. We can leave the 5 up to the team captains discretion for now and then possibly evolve a criteria for picking them later.

b. Then also Ill write into the rules that the two contributions for each team member per week need to be substantial, that they should be two sentences or more of contributing dialogue.

c. How might we implement your quotes idea? That would be a superb free incentive. I say we put the team captain in charge of that section of the front page and have them update the hot topics and quotes. Can we set it so they can only edit a part of it? Giving a trusted member full access to that page should work too though.

d. Ill merge the discussion thats in the team with this discussion and then lock the team project.

e. Ill look for a team captain to head it up.

f. Ill take the word indefinity out upon request although it seems to fit to me.

g. Ill leave the persuasive peice in because it seems like any that would be included would be almost entirely subjective. Although Im still open on that.

[caliban]

At todays recorders meeting, this topic was identified as requiring further discussion.

A main issue was whether this initiative should focus on populating the "active topics" list or if it would be more useful to identify 5 high quality topics per week as per the alternative suggestion.

Are there any other views or perspectives?

[brokenportal]

Im wondering what you think of my conclusion at the end of my last response, you and anyone interested in giving feedback.

If we try this out then we dont have to worry about it doing much of any real harm. It can though potentially do much good. Since its implementation can be pretty subjective, I say this project is a good example of something we can skip going into to much analysis on with its implementation. If we can get a general consensus then how about if we try out that conclusion in my last response and tweak it from there.

[brokenportal]

Ill coordinate it, so it shouldnt pose much time consumption to move it along.

[caliban]

How about this:


The SPECTATORS are readers of the Imminst forums who want to
- preserve good quality discussions in the ImmInst forums
- alert other readers to forum discussions of particular interest
- work with the Institute leadership to identify and showcase forum discussions

Both members and registered users can join the spectators.
To join, please contact: ???

The spectators will work together or independently to:

1- identify a collection topics that are of high quality to showcase on the frontpage for a week or longer.
High Quality topics are distinguished by their topical interest, by the expertise displayed in some contributions, by their potential to generate concrete action and other criteria to be developed by the spectators. 5 high quality topics per week will be displayed on the ImmInst front page as 'featured topic'.

2- pledge to contribute to effectively to at 1 currently 'featured topic' and 1 'perennial' topic* per week. Such posts need not be long but should make a meaningful contribution to the discussion.

3- identify particularly good posts, distinguished by the uniqueness of the information that is shared, the quality of the prose, wit, wisdom or other criteria to be developed by the spectators. Each week 1 post will be singled out and quoted on the frontpage.

The Lead Spectator will receive and collate spectator suggestions each week. S/he will work with the Executive director and/or other appointed content managers to edit the frontpage accordingly.

*Perennial topics: a list of 72 (how about 80?) topics will be kept by the spectators. These topics are distinguished by their relative timelessness and/or by their potential to generate positive action toward meeting the Institutes mission. This list will be 'pinned' in a forum and will be referenced in official ImmInst materials. The spectators will periodically review and update this list, but no more than 72 (80?) topics will be kept on the perennials list.

[brokenportal]

That sounds like it will work to me. To get it going I will start with recruting a team captain, a "Spectator". They can then post a topic about the team to recruit from, and to gather suggestions for topics to add to the list. Then whenever its decided, maybe weekly, bi weekly or monthly, 10 new topics can be rotated in, and ten out.

I think we should pick somebody we can trust with access to the front page so they can handle it with out tying up more peoples time. Maybe neonexus, but even better yet, somebody that would work well with neonexus so they can collaborate back and forth between it and the newsletter like some have been saying.

The 2 responses per week you suggest would work. I think it could be designed for a bit more simplicity, but that can be tweaked by the head spectator as it goes. The main point is, this will help create more gems to come floating through the active topics section. This will cause a larger percent of our stiflingly large pool of non contributing registered users to join in. This, it seems to me, directly, head on, relates to our success.

And by gems, I mean any topic that requires thoughts about living indefinitely. We need light banter topics and the like to entice members new to the ideas, we need philosophical ones to help instill reasoning for indefinite life and reasons like that, we need action topics to harness volunteer hours, resources, skills and such, we need pointed research topics to inspire more researched ideas and collaboration and all that, those are all gems. You cant go anywhere else on the internet to get a forums of discussions like that. We are that. 2% of gems like that in the active topics is way way under par. We dont need 100%, but this initiative will help balance it out so its more than 2%.

[brokenportal]

I was just thinking, perhaps this stucture is right up the Navigators alley. The head navigator could also be the head spectator since they also have or could have access to the front page, the navigators of each specific forum could act as spectators and help keep the structure by rotating 5 of the best action orientated topics in the "pinned topics" section of a select group of forums. The head spectator could go through to see that everybody is keeping up with this on maybe a weekly or bi weekly basis and pick one from each catagory for the front page and get quotes from them. Instead of a quota, we could maybe set a suggested rule of thumb that the navigators keep those five discussions going as often as they can each week.

Rather than so much focus on the defensive dynamic of troll moderation that makes up a large part of navigation, this might help add more of an offensive element to it in this fight for indefinite life extension. Of course, we would want the navigators feedback on this. If there was a general consensus then this would be something to consider.

[Mind]

We decided to look for a couple Navs to focus on "forum content/action topics" (without creating a new category of Spectator). As a secondary option, members of the internetworking team could perform this type actoin

[Shepard]

The deadline for this idea is extended to May 7.

[Mind]

Will continue to look toward the Nav team (2 or 3 people) to pin important topics and possibly add content. More Discussion here

[caliban]

I would be dispointed if this came down to pinned topics. People often forget to un-pin when the topic is no longer current, and we'd still have no integration with the newsletter and the frontpage.
Maybe the idea turns on an improved rating system/ rating culture?

[brokenportal]

Well, it seems as though the navigators dont really care for this. Im sure they are all busy and they already fill a great niche in the forums that we are greatful for.

Lets wait to see if brainbox wants to try to get the navigators to go for this or not, and if not then maybe a section like spectators would work. Having internetworking team members do this is a good idea, but I dont think it would work the best, if somebody wants to convince me then Im not totally against it.

I think though that if we request spectators then we should make a list and choose from them.

Some people that might make good project champions, head spectators, besides navigators might be Kostas or Neonexus, there are more, but those two come to mind.

Ive developed this concept a little further at the navigators topic about this: http://www.imminst.o...showtopic=29341

I dont see this coming down to just pinned topics. They would all be rotated out once a month so old ones not being unpinned wouldnt be a concern. When we find a champion for this project that we trust with access to the front page and newsletter, (hopefully brainbox or another navigator) then they can add them to the front page some how, top five? top ten? can we make it shuffle through all the pinned topics every time you access the front page? Should we have one from each of the five main sections? If a shuffle process could be made then that would be great because the team captain could add as many good quotes from pinned topics as they wanted and they could be shuffled through.

[caliban]

Recorders Minute:

The Navigators seem unethusiastic to take on the task of identifying good discussions.
A non-navigator project leader has been identified, and we look foward to his contributions.

[brokenportal]

Alright, so now when cyberbrain is on board, lets have him recruit at least 5 more people to assign to sections of 10 or 9, and one with 6 for now, then expand to more people later. That would be a person assigned to, for example, Immortality Institute, and philosophy and Immortalism forum, then also three of any sections that are marked to have three pinned topics, and one person would have two forums that require a total of 6. Hopefully these recruits will be current navigators, but other people can work too, and we would then discuss them and if they check out then add them as additional navigators.

Once those people are picked then at that time lets give cyberbrain access to the front page and work out a spot to put the links and quotes, hopefully in rotating windows or windows with pages to choose from, but anything workable. Then when the newsletter is ready to go, the newsletter editor can put, "get a list of the months current pinned topics from the navigator in charge of pinned topics, (called maybe assistant lead navigator?) on their check list of things to do. If another navigator may want to, I suggest we still give them a chance to petition to gain such a position over cyberbrain, just out of seniority, (should we vote to create an "assistant lead navigator" position?) but I think that cyberbrain will do great in such a role.

Unless their are any suggestions for change in this, objections, addendums, etc.. then Ill direct cyberbrain to respond here and then have him come up with a list of at least 5 suggested team members for this by, lets say, June 2nd then. This is all under the assumption that the pending approval for him as navigator goes through and no other navigators show interest in the position.


Heres the list of suggested forums and number of pinned topics.

5 Immortality Institute

5 Supplements

5 LifeStyle

5 Philosophy and Immortalism
(Maybe also 5 apeice for Politic and Law, Religion and Spirituality, and Society and Economics.)


3 BioScience

3 Aging Theories

3 Genetics

3 Stem Cells

3 Medicine and Pharmacology

3 Computer Science

3 Brain Computer

3 AI and Singularity

3 Cryonics

3 Nanotechnology

3 Physics and Space

Edited by brokenportal, 12 May 2009 - 09:49 PM.

[brokenportal]

Current structure and progress of this project:

Ive been chatting with cyberbrain. We currently have a mixture of the suggestions from this topic here going. It can be changed as we go. Currently Cyberbrain is looking for a minimum of 5 recruits to help pin topics, and a maximum of 1 for each section, sections outlined in last response here. Hopefully the recruits will be current navigators, Victor has already stated interest. Non navigator recruits will need to be considered for a navigator position. I think we should create a spectator title for this but its not a factor I want to hang up this projects initial progress.

Then once these people are all recruited and in place, we will have them pin the topics and make sure we are all on the same page about what to do, 3 topics for some sections, 5 for others. People will be signed up someplace, probably at a topic about this, maybe in a drupal page or something. Once the people are recruited and pin their initial topics then I told cyberbrain we will work on getting him front page access at that time, unless its decided to run it through somebody, but I think it would be best to give him access to make things easier. Cyberbrain will report to somebody. Mind, you said you want him to report to you. That should work, you can keep him in touch with the newsletter and help him with the front page. He can also report to me or anybody on the board if you want to work it that way.

The topics will be pinned once a month during a set period of time. People who dont pin their topics will be removed from the team, and a new recruit will be found. Cyberbrain will take their spot in the mean time. The topics have to have good substance and stir thought or discussion about indefinite life extension. Cyberbrain will then report to Mind.

Edited by brokenportal, 20 May 2009 - 07:58 PM.

[Mind]

Cyberbrain has agreed to take on this role. I am preparing a meeting with Cyberbrain to discuss the actions topics and set him up with front page access. Should happen this weekend or next week - before June 1.

[brokenportal]

So this can be moved to the new projects section now. I would do it but Im not sure how. Caliban if you can move it that would be great. If you want me to try to learn how to make and maneuver new sub forums through forums then Ill do that tonight or monday.

[brokenportal]

We have found the minimum of 5 recruits that we have aimed for for this.

Cyberbrain
cyborgdreamer
Biopunk
Mysticpsi
VictorBjoerk

Im now in the process of verifying that they will all work with this project. Once that is done we will have to vote some of them in to a navigator title. (Can we just create a spectator title right away? Lumping so many different kinds of project volunteers in as navigator seems like its probably going to start becoming problematic.)

Ive known of, and checked biopunk, mysticspi and cyborgdreamer over. From what I can see they are all great candidates.

Once those candidates are all verified and in then we can move on to the next step.


This discussion has parts of its premise revised and is continued here:
http://www.imminst.o...eam-t30789.html

Edited by brokenportal, 22 June 2009 - 05:59 PM.