13 replies to this topic

[nameless]

My neck has been bothering me for a while, but it seems worse lately. My jaw just started bothering me too. I know I have some bone spurs and other spine-related things going on in there which probably isn't so good. What are considered good supplements to reduce the pain and hopefully keep my neck from getting worse?

Anyone ever try tart cherry (supplements or real cherry) and get any benefit? Glucosamine of any help? The studies I've read on glucosamine seem rather mixed.

I'm already doing the Omega-3 + vitamin D/K2 thing, so maybe that's helping a little.

[jessicantique]

i practised yoga for some time and my muscle and joints are always quite flexible at my age, however, this year (27 now) , i started to have occasional joint pain and weakness on my limbs, i don't know what's wrong,
i started yoga and some stretching these few months, i took NSI Glucosamine Chondroitin MSM (, http://www.vitacost....Chondroitin-MSM) for some months, not helping on the sour and weak feeling on my limbs, i am also losing strength and balance with my limbs. ...

now i still work different yoga posts and stretching exercise, i might try something topical later,
have anyone tried arnica gel?

http://www.vitacost....iron-Arnica-Gel i think it's more for muscle pain than joint problems,

nameless, what's your cause of the joint pain? does it happen to most people at certain age due to we overuse our joint and hurt them unknowingly??

[4eva]

I don't think of joint problems relating to neck problems. Your neck is usually associated with muscle tension. As a joint it doesn't move like your knee does, for example.

No one wears out their neck (joint) from overuse like you can with other joints - knees and hips.

Can you be more specific with what kind of neck issues you're having. I don't think tart cherry will help your neck problem.

Jaw problems are also usually related to muscle tension or TMJ. Tart cherry or glucosamine won't help.

[jessicantique]

No one wears out their neck (joint) from overuse like you can with other joints - knees and hips.

yes, i am referring to my knee joints,

[nameless]

I've had two diagnosis on my neck -- family doctor said mild arthritis, and an orthopedist told me wear and tear plus muscle tension was causing my neck problems. I've had a MRI on my neck too, which showed bone spurs, mild/med stenosis, and some disc problems, if I remember correctly. My neck also has a crackly sound when I turn it, so there seems to be some sort of joint or spine issues going on in there.

As for reasons why it is this way, not entirely sure yet. It's not like my neck gets a workout everyday where it should wear down.

[stephen_b]

I found boron supplementation solved the mild joint pain I noticed while typing in one finger.

StephenB

[nowayout]

Why not try the usual glucosamine/chondroitin/MSM combo? From my research I remember deciding that the interventional studies were overwhelmingly in favour of a significant real effect. If I remember correctly, the one major study showing no significant effect was either epidemiological and/or the dosage may have been insufficient, but my memory may be inaccurate.

There is also a lot of favorable anecdotal evidence for Cissus. I can't comment on that except that it makes me feel drugged, so I have not been able to use it, but I understand this is a very uncommon side effect.

[nameless]

Why not try the usual glucosamine/chondroitin/MSM combo? From my research I remember deciding that the interventional studies were overwhelmingly in favour of a significant real effect. If I remember correctly, the one major study showing no significant effect was either epidemiological and/or the dosage may have been insufficient, but my memory may be inaccurate.

Yep, I might. Although I thought the data on chondroitin wasn't so promising? And which form of glucosamine is considered best? I'm a little hesitant with glucosamine, due to potential insulin or glucose issues, but I think that occurred only in the ratty studies.

[4eva]

Have you considered a hair mineral analysis?

I would want to understand what is behind any bone problems I had. You could try different supplements but that might make things worse. I think you could have a copper imbalance or some other trace mineral problem if you are already taking calcium.

I've seen posts about women who developed osteoporosis at a relatively young age even though they lifted weights took CA, MG and vitamin D supplements. Our bones need more than just those obvious ones.

I don't think blood tests can tell you what trace minerals may be out of balance like a hair analysis can.

I don't think tart cherry may be right for your problems.

I'm not an expert but I think glucosamine helps with cartilage problems. That might help you but I don't believe that may help your bone issues

[nameless]

Have you considered a hair mineral analysis?

I would want to understand what is behind any bone problems I had. You could try different supplements but that might make things worse. I think you could have a copper imbalance or some other trace mineral problem if you are already taking calcium.

I haven't had a hair analysis, besides a mercury test from years ago. I have had serum tests done for selenium, zinc, copper and magnesium, although they may not be so accurate. No major serum deficiencies though. I'm not sure how accurate hair analysis is either, as I haven't researched it.

I don't think anything I am taking would cause a copper deficiency. Perhaps maybe a zinc deficiency due to an ace inhibitor, but I don't think that would cause neck issues.

I should also add most of my other joints seem fine, or at least if they have a problem, I haven't noticed anything major. As for a cause... wear and tear from computer work, maybe? Could potentially be due to Lyme (which I plan to get tested for), or some odd mineral issue, I guess?

Edited by nameless, 06 April 2009 - 07:34 PM.

[sUper GeNius]

I don't think of joint problems relating to neck problems. Your neck is usually associated with muscle tension. As a joint it doesn't move like your knee does, for example.

No one wears out their neck (joint) from overuse like you can with other joints - knees and hips.

Can you be more specific with what kind of neck issues you're having. I don't think tart cherry will help your neck problem.

Jaw problems are also usually related to muscle tension or TMJ. Tart cherry or glucosamine won't help.

Arthritis in the cervical vertebra is common.

[nowayout]

As for a cause... wear and tear from computer work, maybe?

Sleeping position maybe?

[kismet]

Yep, I might. Although I thought the data on chondroitin wasn't so promising?

I'm pretty sure chondroitin has been proven to do nothing on its own. However, it may be synergistic with glucosamine/MSM. I don't know.

And which form of glucosamine is considered best? I'm a little hesitant with glucosamine, due to potential insulin or glucose issues, but I think that occurred only in the ratty studies.

No, it's not as clear cut as you might think. I've checked the literature once after reading Andre's concerns in his regimen thread and I've found both positive and negative results.
At least anecdotally I can say that glucosamine may have some influence on glucose metabolism. I've been using glucosamine for years and had 2 fasting glucose readings at 100mg/dl in a row, I dropped the glucosamine this winter (but started taking ~1200IU vitamin D at the same time while unfortunately the two other readings were done in winter and spring) then took another test which came in at 86mg/dl. Now i'm somewhat perplexed, as I've always tried to improve my fasting glucose and I'm not sure what did the trick (I'm pretty sure the labs use the same reference ranges, but I'll check that again tomorrow). How big is inter-, intra-lab and intra-person variation when it comes to fasting glucose testing? (maybe they're completely worthless?)
My understanding of glucose metabolism is not good enough to arrive at a conclusion in any case, but you can take a look at some studies (haven't read more than their abstracts):

It does
1500mg, n = 38, 6 weeks; HOMA-IR and small artery elasticity worsened in those with underlying poorer insulin resistance.
Am J Med Sci. 2007 Jun;333(6):333-9. Oral glucosamine in doses used to treat osteoarthritis worsens insulin resistance. Pham T, Cornea A, Blick KE, Jenkins A, Scofield RH. Endocrinology Division, Department of Medicine, University of Oklahoma Health Science Center, Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, USA.

n=10
"Infusion of GlcN did not affect readily releasable insulin levels, glucose-stimulated insulin secretion (GSIS), or the time constant of secretion, but it increased both the glucose threshold of GSIS ... and plasma fasting glucose levels"
Diabetes. 2000 Jun;49(6):926-35.
Effects of glucosamine infusion on insulin secretion and insulin action in humans.
Monauni T, Zenti MG, Cretti A, Daniels MC, Targher G, Caruso B, Caputo M, McClain D, Del Prato S, Giaccari A, Muggeo M, Bonora E, Bonadonna RC.
http://diabetes.diab...eprint/49/6/926

It doesn't
1,500 mg/day for 6 weeks, n=40
Diabetes. 2006 Nov;55(11):3142-50.
Oral glucosamine for 6 weeks at standard doses does not cause or worsen insulin resistance or endothelial dysfunction in lean or obese subjects.

Osteoarthritis Cartilage. 2004 Jun;12(6):506-11.
Effect of glucosamine supplementation on fasting and non-fasting plasma glucose and serum insulin concentrations in healthy individuals.

J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2001 May;86(5):2099-103.
Short-term glucosamine infusion does not affect insulin sensitivity in humans.
Pouwels MJ, Jacobs JR, Span PN, Lutterman JA, Smits P, Tack CJ.

Edited by kismet, 06 April 2009 - 11:17 PM.

[nameless]

Sleeping position is a possible cause. I try to be careful positioning my head/neck during sleep, but years ago I wasn't so careful. And quite often I wake up in bad sleeping positions regardless of how I prop my neck.

Wear and tear/arthritis/sleeping position are all possible causes, or if not direct causes, I'm sure it doesn't help. I probably will hold off on supplementing until I get more tests for Lyme, as that could explain my neck issues too.

And back to supplements: which is better, Glucosamine HCI or Glucosamine Sulfate? Would something like Biosil help too, or would that be more a skin/nails thing? And the tart cherry idea is appealing, but I wonder if it's more effective for gout than arthritis/pain.

And thanks for the Glucosamine studies -- I see it isn't entirely known if it does affect glucose. Anyone ever get their glycated hemoglobin tested before and after trying it? That may be more reliable than going by fasting glucose.

Edited by nameless, 06 April 2009 - 11:27 PM.