13 replies to this topic

[OneScrewLoose]

Experiences? Comments? I want to be able to lower my Deprenyl from 5mg, which I think is contributing to my anxiety. Problem is, it helps my ADD, though not all that much. So I'm looking towards guanfacine to help me out.

[bgwithadd]

It seems to be all I talk about on here, but I do use it.

I have had sort of mixed results and I like it a lot in ways but it also somewhat worries me.

I did not realzie it at first because I attributed it to the deprenyl PEA combo, but it caused me massive anxiety when I first tried it. It turns out if you have relatively low blood pressure that you can get a pulse pressure under 40 and that is BAD. Under there, you start to get a lower intercranial pressure and that causes you to not get enough blood flow. That leads to anxiety and eventual brain damage. Scary stuff.

However, it is great for getting to sleep at night, and great for anxiety, and I do think it helps me with focus. Problem is, it dampens you quite a bit so it's not exactly wakeful like taking many drugs are.

You also get a rebound in blood pressure 24 hours after taking it, so basically you need to take it every day at the same time or else it could cause some problems.

For me, it has a strong effect on blood pressure. My BP gets too high with aderall and wellbutrin and it has a bad effect on my skin and my ability to maintain erection. Guanfacine completely reverses this if I take enough, but the problem is that then when the wellbutrin and adderall wear off my blood pressure is too low, not too high. I had a pulse pressure of 30 when I woke up and that is a big problem. But, it seems I am very sensitive to vasodilation and vasoconstriction. Other people seem to not get much bad (or good) effects in this regard. But, it's something to keep in mind. My results are rare enough that less than 1% of guanfacine users get them, but if you don't know what's going on it could actually be lethal so I thought I would point it out.

Adderall has some crappy side effects and most people get something bad from it in addition to the good it does, but as far as safety goes stimulants are pretty much the safest prescription meds on the market, in spite of what (highly ignorant) people will claim. Brain meds in general are usually very safe, physically speaking. When you get into blood pressure meds, you are getting into something that has potential death as a real possible outcome. Some of them permanently screw up your pulse pressure (top-bottom number) and that actually leads to MORE artherioschlerosis. However, of the blood pressure meds, guanfacine is probably the very most benign one out there. Prop. is a serious medication, and most of the on patent front line meds today are either dangerous or cause as many problems as they solve.

I can see a huge improvement in my skin since I started using it, though, and my other problems have completely disappeared as well. I started with 1 mg but eventually went down to 1/3 of a mg per day and that seems to be a good balance and keeps my bp around 115/70 and heart rate around 70.

As for focus, it definitely helps. Clinically speaking it's as effective as adderall in trials, but I don't get quite as pronounced an effect. However, it seems to last longer, maybe 8 hours. Adderall instant release is 4-6 hours for me, but usually once I catch on an activity I can keep going longer than that. If I took a bigger dose, then I would probably get a lot more benefit but I would probably drop dead from more than 1 mg. It scares me that the new shire med for ADD is basically guanfacine sustained release. If millions of kids start taking this stuff , a lot of people are going to be dropping dead or getting brain damage. Most people barely listen to their kids if they complain about a med.

So, it's an effective alternative, but it requires some caution. The other great thing about it is that it will work regardless of the source of confusion and will work well for bipolar, schizophrenia, etc. Stims on the other hand can be hit and miss.

[desperate788]

It seems to be all I talk about on here, but I do use it.

I have had sort of mixed results and I like it a lot in ways but it also somewhat worries me.

I did not realzie it at first because I attributed it to the deprenyl PEA combo, but it caused me massive anxiety when I first tried it. It turns out if you have relatively low blood pressure that you can get a pulse pressure under 40 and that is BAD. Under there, you start to get a lower intercranial pressure and that causes you to not get enough blood flow. That leads to anxiety and eventual brain damage. Scary stuff.

However, it is great for getting to sleep at night, and great for anxiety, and I do think it helps me with focus. Problem is, it dampens you quite a bit so it's not exactly wakeful like taking many drugs are.

You also get a rebound in blood pressure 24 hours after taking it, so basically you need to take it every day at the same time or else it could cause some problems.

For me, it has a strong effect on blood pressure. My BP gets too high with aderall and wellbutrin and it has a bad effect on my skin and my ability to maintain erection. Guanfacine completely reverses this if I take enough, but the problem is that then when the wellbutrin and adderall wear off my blood pressure is too low, not too high. I had a pulse pressure of 30 when I woke up and that is a big problem. But, it seems I am very sensitive to vasodilation and vasoconstriction. Other people seem to not get much bad (or good) effects in this regard. But, it's something to keep in mind. My results are rare enough that less than 1% of guanfacine users get them, but if you don't know what's going on it could actually be lethal so I thought I would point it out.

Adderall has some crappy side effects and most people get something bad from it in addition to the good it does, but as far as safety goes stimulants are pretty much the safest prescription meds on the market, in spite of what (highly ignorant) people will claim. Brain meds in general are usually very safe, physically speaking. When you get into blood pressure meds, you are getting into something that has potential death as a real possible outcome. Some of them permanently screw up your pulse pressure (top-bottom number) and that actually leads to MORE artherioschlerosis. However, of the blood pressure meds, guanfacine is probably the very most benign one out there. Prop. is a serious medication, and most of the on patent front line meds today are either dangerous or cause as many problems as they solve.

I can see a huge improvement in my skin since I started using it, though, and my other problems have completely disappeared as well. I started with 1 mg but eventually went down to 1/3 of a mg per day and that seems to be a good balance and keeps my bp around 115/70 and heart rate around 70.

As for focus, it definitely helps. Clinically speaking it's as effective as adderall in trials, but I don't get quite as pronounced an effect. However, it seems to last longer, maybe 8 hours. Adderall instant release is 4-6 hours for me, but usually once I catch on an activity I can keep going longer than that. If I took a bigger dose, then I would probably get a lot more benefit but I would probably drop dead from more than 1 mg. It scares me that the new shire med for ADD is basically guanfacine sustained release. If millions of kids start taking this stuff , a lot of people are going to be dropping dead or getting brain damage. Most people barely listen to their kids if they complain about a med.

So, it's an effective alternative, but it requires some caution. The other great thing about it is that it will work regardless of the source of confusion and will work well for bipolar, schizophrenia, etc. Stims on the other hand can be hit and miss.

can guanfacinebe used to lessen the stress response like racing heart?
from an other view point can it be used for racing thoughts?

[bgwithadd]

Guanfacine basically neutralizes the effect of adrenaline. So yes, and in fact that is how it does all it does. Your heart will definitely slow and anxiety will lessen.

It's very similar to clonidine or prop., but it has an extra attraction of improving prefrontal cortex performance and is not as dangerous as clon. or prop.

Racing thoughts is a more broad topic, but it definitely helps with anxiety so it's likely it will help with this.

[desperate788]

Guanfacine basically neutralizes the effect of adrenaline. So yes, and in fact that is how it does all it does. Your heart will definitely slow and anxiety will lessen.

It's very similar to clonidine or prop., but it has an extra attraction of improving prefrontal cortex performance and is not as dangerous as clon. or prop.

Racing thoughts is a more broad topic, but it definitely helps with anxiety so it's likely it will help with this.

thank you very much for the info..

[OneScrewLoose]

Any likely hood of downregulation of the a2 receptors and tolerance?

[bgwithadd]

Like I said, you have to take it each day at the same time because there's a minor rebound effect. However it is totally gone after a week and it's only the first day that it's signifigant.

[yoyo]

Any likely hood of downregulation of the a2 receptors and tolerance?

they are pretty high affinity i don't think this would be the case.

[OneScrewLoose]

Any likely hood of downregulation of the a2 receptors and tolerance?

they are pretty high affinity i don't think this would be the case.

Why is that so? I would think that if a drug has a high affinity for a receptor it would have a higher chance of downregulation.

[yoyo]

Any likely hood of downregulation of the a2 receptors and tolerance?

they are pretty high affinity i don't think this would be the case.

Why is that so? I would think that if a drug has a high affinity for a receptor it would have a higher chance of downregulation.

they're supposed to be agonised a lot. the benefit of guanfacine is getting a2 activated at normal levles without activating a1 or beta receptors which counteract the effects.

[OneScrewLoose]

Any likely hood of downregulation of the a2 receptors and tolerance?

they are pretty high affinity i don't think this would be the case.

Why is that so? I would think that if a drug has a high affinity for a receptor it would have a higher chance of downregulation.

they're supposed to be agonised a lot. the benefit of guanfacine is getting a2 activated at normal levles without activating a1 or beta receptors which counteract the effects.

But my question was downregulation of the a2. If it gets agonized a lot, might this cause downregulation?

[yoyo]

Any likely hood of downregulation of the a2 receptors and tolerance?

they are pretty high affinity i don't think this would be the case.

Why is that so? I would think that if a drug has a high affinity for a receptor it would have a higher chance of downregulation.

they're supposed to be agonised a lot. the benefit of guanfacine is getting a2 activated at normal levles without activating a1 or beta receptors which counteract the effects.

But my question was downregulation of the a2. If it gets agonized a lot, might this cause downregulation?

no.

[eskimokid]

Any likely hood of downregulation of the a2 receptors and tolerance?

they are pretty high affinity i don't think this would be the case.

Why is that so? I would think that if a drug has a high affinity for a receptor it would have a higher chance of downregulation.

they're supposed to be agonised a lot. the benefit of guanfacine is getting a2 activated at normal levles without activating a1 or beta receptors which counteract the effects.

But my question was downregulation of the a2. If it gets agonized a lot, might this cause downregulation?

no.

Actually, yes. Many receptor agonists downregulate their receptors. I don't know about guanfacine and alpha-2 receptors in particular, but a quick google search would tell you that it wouldn't be all that surprising if it did:

http://www.sciencedi...003b859243ba07f

Even if it did... it may not matter.

[mwasnidge]

A couple of people have recommended Guanfacine to me to use in conjunction with Focalin XR. I will ask to trial the extended release 'Intuniv', but I wonder if generic Guanfacine would be as effective. There seems to be such a disparity between brand name and generic ADHD meds. Although, I guess, Guanfacine is not primarily a ADHD med...