13 replies to this topic

[TheFountain]

There is a lot of talk about maximal 'healthyspan' diets, and some seem to agree that it is the Paleo diet, while other's favour the Okinawan diet. But what if the truth lies somewhere in between? And that the result is not only maximal healthspan, but maximal youthspan as well? Let's face the facts, when people get old their quality of life goes down the tubes for several reasons, the first of which is that their aging bodies and faces are less desireable to the sought after youthful females all men want and the attention and compassion all women crave. A maximal youthspan diet would be one that reduces all forms of glycation to the lowest spectrum possible. Be it through fructose reduction, the curbing of AGEs or the inclusion of necessary isoflavones and anti-oxidants, or MORE PREFERABLY, all of the above! Each diet has aspects of this goal to its credit, but none perfect it. What those interested, not only in maximal healthspan, but in maximal youthspan, need to accomplish is a hybrid diet that addresses all these issues at once. Sorry but it is not the Paleo diet (too high in AGEs) and it is not other vegan and raw food diets (too high in fructose and other glycation producing effects). We need something better than all of them combined.

Edited by TheFountain, 17 April 2009 - 06:06 PM.

[Matt]

But we've been through this so many times before. Calorie Restriction is the only proven, and consistent way to extend youth and maximum lifespan. Changing the diet around only brings about small changes.

Edited by Matt, 17 April 2009 - 09:49 PM.

[TheFountain]

But we've been through this so many times before. Calorie Restriction is the only provenly consisted way to extend youth and maximum lifespan.

Then please explain to me why the majority of CR practitioners look old by the time they reach their late 30s? Try as you might to avoid this issue, looks are an indicator of youth and the majority of the people you posted videos about looked either their ages or at least 10 years in excess of their ages. Obviously CR doesn't prevent or even slow down the breakdown of the ECM (extra-cellular matrix)of relatively young practitioners.

Edited by TheFountain, 17 April 2009 - 08:48 PM.

[Matt]

Well maybe the fact that almost all of them started at around the age of 50 when much of the damage to their skin was already done? There are only a few of us that actually started young.

Edited by Matt, 17 April 2009 - 09:51 PM.

[TheFountain]

Well maybe the fact that almost all of them started at around the age of 50 when much of the damage to their skin was already done? There are only a few of us that actually started young.

It could be so, I started the equivalent of a pritikin diet around age 17, I am now 24 and I think that I look better when I get about 2000-2200 calories a day, fuller face, better collagen sustainence. I think Caloric deficit doesn't help to sustain collagen but this is just a hunch since there are no forthcoming studies on this. Maybe I am just referring to subcutaceous fat. See how you look in 10 years. You could be right. No calorie restriction people have as yet started at our ages.

Edited by TheFountain, 17 April 2009 - 11:49 PM.

[Skötkonung]

That's a tough one. What do you consider youth? Having the body of a teen? Being physically fit and strong? Having a young face? I think some of these are mutually exclusive.

Consider:
You could be small and lithe like a teen if you practiced methionine restriction as it would inhibit growth. But you wouldn't be strong or have much energy.

You could be strong and have high muscle mass but would also have the risks from AGEs in cooked meats and the risks of methionine.

You could be young internally, but look old externally because the sub dermal fat in your face has disappeared due to caloric restriction. You would also be small and weak.


I don't think there is a diet that has all the good without the bad. Perhaps someone could conceivably do them all in moderation, but that means they would also get some of the negative aspects from each regimen. And if you did do them all moderately, what does that amount to? Just eating healthy?

[TheFountain]

I think the key is limiting glycation and AGEs formation. Methionine should be kept to a moderate to low spectrum as possible and we should look for supplements that limit the residual effects of all the above. Currently I am taking Benfotiamine to help restrict glycation and AGEs formation. There was another supplement mentioned by someone on another thread but I don't remember the name of it right now.

[Matt]

I think Caloric deficit doesn't help to sustain collagen but this is just a hunch since there are no forthcoming studies on this

Modulation of Cutaneous Aging With Calorie
Restriction in Fischer 344 Rats

FULL PAPER FREE HERE:
http://archfaci.ama-.../reprint/7/1/12


Objective: To examine whether histological changes in
skin owing to intrinsic aging in a laboratory rodent model
are modulated by caloric restriction (CR).

Methods: The abdominal skin from colony-raised ad libitum–
fed Fischer 344 rats and age-matched rats subjected
to CR was studied in the light microscope using
histological morphometric methods. Animals 4, 12, and
24 months or older were used in this study. We studied
the skin to obtain (1) quantitative data on the depth of
the epidermis, dermis, and fat layer, the epidermal cellular
density, the percentage fraction of dermal collagen,
elastic fibers, pilosebaceous units, and capillaries,
and the fibroblast density; and (2) qualitative assessment
of histological staining for dermal glycosaminoglycans.
We analyzed data by means of general linear model
2-way analysis of variance to obtain significance for the
effects of age, diet, and age-diet interaction.
Results: The ad libitum–fed rats showed age-related increase
in the depth of the epidermis, dermis, and fat layer.
Calorie restriction prevented these changes, but epidermal
nuclear density appeared to be stimulated. A trend
toward increased values for collagen and elastic fibers,
fibroblasts, and capillaries in skin samples from CR rats
was observed. Pilosebaceous units were not modified.
Moderately reduced staining for the dermal glycosaminoglycans
in the skin of CR rats was noticed.

Conclusions: Histomorphological changes resulting from
intrinsic aging affected some of the studied variables in the
rat skin, and these changes were delayed or prevented by
CR. Some stimulatory effects, such as increased densities
of fibroblasts and capillary profiles and higher values of
connective tissue fibers resulting from CR, were also observed.
Cutaneous morphological changes due to natural
aging in this rat model seem to be modified by physiological
or metabolic alterations imposed by CR.

Edited by Matt, 18 April 2009 - 10:04 PM.

[TheFountain]

I think Caloric deficit doesn't help to sustain collagen but this is just a hunch since there are no forthcoming studies on this

Modulation of Cutaneous Aging With Calorie
Restriction in Fischer 344 Rats

FULL PAPER FREE HERE:
http://archfaci.ama-.../reprint/7/1/12


Objective: To examine whether histological changes in
skin owing to intrinsic aging in a laboratory rodent model
are modulated by caloric restriction (CR).

Methods: The abdominal skin from colony-raised ad libitum–
fed Fischer 344 rats and age-matched rats subjected
to CR was studied in the light microscope using
histological morphometric methods. Animals 4, 12, and
24 months or older were used in this study. We studied
the skin to obtain (1) quantitative data on the depth of
the epidermis, dermis, and fat layer, the epidermal cellular
density, the percentage fraction of dermal collagen,
elastic fibers, pilosebaceous units, and capillaries,
and the fibroblast density; and (2) qualitative assessment
of histological staining for dermal glycosaminoglycans.
We analyzed data by means of general linear model
2-way analysis of variance to obtain significance for the
effects of age, diet, and age-diet interaction.
Results: The ad libitum–fed rats showed age-related increase
in the depth of the epidermis, dermis, and fat layer.
Calorie restriction prevented these changes, but epidermal
nuclear density appeared to be stimulated. A trend
toward increased values for collagen and elastic fibers,
fibroblasts, and capillaries in skin samples from CR rats
was observed. Pilosebaceous units were not modified.
Moderately reduced staining for the dermal glycosaminoglycans
in the skin of CR rats was noticed.

Conclusions: Histomorphological changes resulting from
intrinsic aging affected some of the studied variables in the
rat skin, and these changes were delayed or prevented by
CR. Some stimulatory effects, such as increased densities
of fibroblasts and capillary profiles and higher values of
connective tissue fibers resulting from CR, were also observed.
Cutaneous morphological changes due to natural
aging in this rat model seem to be modified by physiological
or metabolic alterations imposed by CR.

I would like to say 'I stand corrected'. But I have been practicing the equivalent of a calorie restriction diet from the age of 17 (now 24) and I have not spent a great deal of time in the sun over the past 7 years, nonetheless when my calorie intake borders on a deficit my face begins to look sunken and slightly older than my chronological age. When it is fuller I can pass for 19 and am usually asked for ID when purchasing Alcohol. Of course this is an anaecdotal position, but I also think it is difficult to connect the dots between rodent studies and maximal human life-span studies. Who knows what unknown variables exist between rodents and humans.

[Matt]

You have your own experience, I have my own. I am almost 25 and always get mistaken for being 16 with a BMI of 16.4. As I said, theres a few of us on here that have started CR from a young age. Sven, Johan, and myself. There might be others... But as you said, we'll see what happens in 10 years from now

Edited by Matt, 18 April 2009 - 11:31 PM.

[Skötkonung]

A trend toward increased values for collagen and elastic fibers,fibroblasts, and capillaries in skin samples from CR ratswas observed.

Collagen and elastic fibers are only part of what gives someone the appearance of youth. I concede, perhaps these do improve, but what about the sub dermal levels of fat that give the face smoothness and youth? If you consider plastic surgery treatments as a benchmark for what needs to be preserved to obtain a youthful look, you'll see that facial fillers are also a huge part of reversing the appearance of aging. It is likely that caloric deprivation over a significant length of time will reduce these sub dermal pockets of fat. So in this case, you may have younger skin but still not look young.

[trevinski]

So, correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the questions given in this thread essentially the whole basis for the supplement/nutrition section on imminst; ways to encourage youth and ward aging through diet? The most-condensed-trial-sized response I could probably offer would be: don't eat in excess, eat mostly plant based foods, avoid processed food, avoid high-insulin-spiking foods, cook foods only when necessary and avoid over-cooked foods, drink water, supplement with whey protein if lacking protein, take proven supplements.

[Forever21]

Maybe its not diet...

[TheFountain]

A trend toward increased values for collagen and elastic fibers,fibroblasts, and capillaries in skin samples from CR ratswas observed.

Collagen and elastic fibers are only part of what gives someone the appearance of youth. I concede, perhaps these do improve, but what about the sub dermal levels of fat that give the face smoothness and youth? If you consider plastic surgery treatments as a benchmark for what needs to be preserved to obtain a youthful look, you'll see that facial fillers are also a huge part of reversing the appearance of aging. It is likely that caloric deprivation over a significant length of time will reduce these sub dermal pockets of fat. So in this case, you may have younger skin but still not look young.

This could also be a need for proper sub-dermal fluidic balance, getting enough of certain amino acids and Hyaluranic acid in the right composition and with the right delivery system.