20 replies to this topic

[OneScrewLoose]

I was wondering if there is a chance it would help my anxiety, especially since SAM-E helped a lot but wasn't great for my stomach.

[yowza]

I was wondering if there is a chance it would help my anxiety, especially since SAM-E helped a lot but wasn't great for my stomach.

I'm unsure as to whether taking only methyl folate will help with anxiouty. However, I do know B6+MTHFr enzyme both are what's used to help methylate Folic Acid into Methyl Folate (look up Folate cycle diagram and you'll see what I mean). The Folate cycle interacts with the methylation cycle (as shown on a number of different diagrams), which means taking methyl B12 has a synergistic action with methyl folate. Taking DMG supports the methylation cycle (that leads to production of SAMe) too.

Supporting the body thru various methyl donors can work too.

[nootrope]

I just started methylfolate. 400 mcg from Solgar. I also have 800 mcg folinic acid, which is somewhere further along in the folate cycle, I gather. My 23andme.com DNA results indicated that I have slow methylization. I've had a mood problem that strikes at times since adolescence. My genetic information also suggests that I may be more responsive to the placebo effect than most people, so take any reports I make on how well the folate works for mood with a grain of salt!

[wolfeye]

Methylfolate just made me agitated and disturbed my sleep. I doubt it would help anxiety problems.

[alexd]

Methylfolate just made me agitated and disturbed my sleep. I doubt it would help anxiety problems.

I take l-methyfolate 7.5 mg marketed as Deplin. This has significantly helped me in that it made me more receptive to other drugs. Since starting it I have reduced my doeses of psychoactive drugs by 50%. If a person was having a limited response to antidepressents or certain nootropics such as Provigil it might be useful but I do not see how it would reduce anxiety. Try it if it works for you then great.

One thing that does work is a magnesium supplement called "Calm". This is a powder that is used to make a warm beverage. Can be found in many health food stores or ordered online. It will have a moderate laxative effect and as it says one the container one should start small with the dosing and work your way up. I find that this stuff combined with nootropics that enhance alertness provides a nice smoothing of the slight edge of anxiety that I get from these and my wife! Good luck!

[stephen_b]

I was wondering if there is a chance it would help my anxiety, especially since SAM-E helped a lot but wasn't great for my stomach.

Would enteric coated SAMe taken with a meal be expected to give stomach upset?

I'll let you know on the methylfolate -- I'm going to start on it today.

StephenB

[Mixter]

You should find out if you're actually MTHFR deficient (ie. possess inefficient variant of methylation enzymes). If not, more than 400mg SAMe daily and the usual dose of the other methylating agents, including TMG, will probably not help much.

But if found to be MTHFR deficient, which is not that rare, you should megadose (up to some grams) TMG, B6 and B12... for mood AND life extension. However if someone is screened as MTHFR, he'll probably get methylfolate as a prescription anyhow.

[stephen_b]

You should find out if you're actually MTHFR deficient (ie. possess inefficient variant of methylation enzymes). If not, more than 400mg SAMe daily and the usual dose of the other methylating agents, including TMG, will probably not help much.

But if found to be MTHFR deficient, which is not that rare, you should megadose (up to some grams) TMG, B6 and B12... for mood AND life extension. However if someone is screened as MTHFR, he'll probably get methylfolate as a prescription anyhow.

Interesting article "When Homocysteine Levels Won’t Come Down" which talks about methylfolate.

Elevated homocysteine levels that persist even with aggressive B12, B6, and folic acid supplementation might be reason enough to try methylfolate, IMO.

Can anyone recommend a testing house for MTHFR SNPs?

StephenB

[yowza]

You should find out if you're actually MTHFR deficient (ie. possess inefficient variant of methylation enzymes). If not, more than 400mg SAMe daily and the usual dose of the other methylating agents, including TMG, will probably not help much.

But if found to be MTHFR deficient, which is not that rare, you should megadose (up to some grams) TMG, B6 and B12... for mood AND life extension. However if someone is screened as MTHFR, he'll probably get methylfolate as a prescription anyhow.

Interesting article "When Homocysteine Levels Won't Come Down" which talks about methylfolate.

Elevated homocysteine levels that persist even with aggressive B12, B6, and folic acid supplementation might be reason enough to try methylfolate, IMO.

Can anyone recommend a testing house for MTHFR SNPs?

StephenB

Low homocysteine can be a marker of a problem as well. This means you could 1) be overmethylating (a blood test for low histamine could help confirm this) or 2) have an overactive CBS gene (this drains the products developed in the methylation pathway into the transulfuration pathway). An overactive CBS gene not only drains the methylation pathway (no methionine to produce SAMe) but also destabilizes the transulfuration pathway (which now is overactive since the CBS gene is draining everything out of the methylation cycle at a fast rate).

[Mixter]

Decodeme sells partial scans, the complete is still at 900, but the cardio for $200 includes MTHFR: http://www.decodeme.com/cardio-scan

Alternative would be measuring your homocysteine and having your doc recommend a local lab, scanning for a few SNPs specific to MTHFR at a standard genetic lab should be possible and rather affordable...

[balance]

I hear people are taking methyl folate because it doesn't need the enzyme conversion that folic acid needs. Now I'm wondering, what exactly is the difference between methyl folate and folinic acid, and which one would be preferred for general use instead of a folic acid supplement?

[rmac230]

I hear people are taking methyl folate because it doesn't need the enzyme conversion that folic acid needs. Now I'm wondering, what exactly is the difference between methyl folate and folinic acid, and which one would be preferred for general use instead of a folic acid supplement?

Has anyone heard or used cerofolin nac? Thanks

[OneScrewLoose]

Decodeme sells partial scans, the complete is still at 900, but the cardio for $200 includes MTHFR: http://www.decodeme.com/cardio-scan

Alternative would be measuring your homocysteine and having your doc recommend a local lab, scanning for a few SNPs specific to MTHFR at a standard genetic lab should be possible and rather affordable...

How much might this cost?

Update: My homocysteine tested at 17 (I made a thread on that too). I am now on Metanx (methylfolate, methylcobalamin and P5P). I need to get my homocysteine levels tested again.

[david ellis]

I was wondering if there is a chance it would help my anxiety, especially since SAM-E helped a lot but wasn't great for my stomach.

Yes, I use methylfolate. It worked like a champ for me. Written below is my understanding of how the diagnosis and treatment was made by my doctor. If I make mistakes here, I welcome the chance to understand better. I studied accounting in college.

The MTHFR diagnosis(using Metametrix ION blood tests) went like this-
Of 10 essential amino acids, only two were low. Two out of 10 low indicates deficient processes. The remaining eight acids were in the top 75%-90% of the optimal range proving that my diet has plenty of high quality protein.

The two low amino acids
low threonine- symptoms fatigue, headache, anxiety
-caused by increased glutathione demands and catabolic processes like cortisol. High levels of cortisol were proved by a saliva profile test over one day.

low histidine - one cause is folic acid deficiency.

Then looking at the Neuroendocrine Metabolism Essential Amino Acid Derivatives my tests showed.
low glycine-caused by a deficiency in threonine
low serine caused by the deficiency of glycine
low tyrosine-despite high levels of phenylalanine indicates a high use of tyrosine, perhaps to support high levels of adrenaline (which is what the urine test showed)

Bottom line, low levels of serotonin and high level of anxiety powered by the use of lots of adrenaline.

My prescription was 800 mcg of MethylFolate, threonine, TMG, tyrosine and 5-HTP. It feels good to be rid of a constant feeling of anxiety, so I am happy with the process. More work is needed because serotonin is still low. The doctor thinks my supplements are ineffective.

I had low levels of homocysteine, so I doubted the diagnosis. But, I have supplemented 1 gram of TMG for years. And I discovered that TMG works even without the presence of methylfolate to reduce homocysteine. Some people call TMG the backdoor treatment for homocysteine.

p.s. L-5 methyl tetrohydrofolate, the molecule that my body was supposed to make, belongs to Bayer. US Patent - Metafolin 5,997,915.

Edited by david ellis, 06 August 2009 - 08:46 PM.

[david ellis]

Has anyone heard or used cerofolin nac? Thanks

I just found a cerefolinNAC brochure in my doctor's office. The brochure says that 86% of the population is at risk for cognitive impairment based on folate and B12 levels. The biggest group at risk was those with normal B12 and folate.

So it seems that normal levels of B12 and folate are not enough to protect against cognitive impairment. Cerefolin protects by using a daily dose of methylfolate (Bayer's patent) at 5.5 mg per day.

Since the FDA has found this a safe and effective dose, is it a good idea for us to supplement 5.5 mg with folinic acid? Folinic acid costs less than methylfolate and has been proved safe and effective at higher doses as part of cancer treatment.

[david ellis]

Has anyone heard or used cerofolin nac? Thanks

I just found a cerefolinNAC brochure in my doctor's office. The brochure says that 86% of the population is at risk for cognitive impairment based on folate and B12 levels. The biggest group at risk was those with normal B12 and folate.

So far not much interest. Maybe because Friday is slow, or maybe because I didn't share the best part, CerefolinNAC is an FDA approved drug claiming to unwind aging. That is a powerful claim and apparently backed up by the FDA. Not even resveratrol is expected to unwind the clock. The linked website has a video that explains the claims. Its long, can't tell you how long, maybe 15 minutes because its a flash video that doesn't display time.

The CerefolinNAC brochure that I have makes the same claims as the video - patients performed 6.9 years younger on ability for delayed recall, 4.7 years younger for memory, 2.1 years younger for thinking faster, 1.7 years younger for reaction time, and 1.5 years younger for overall mental skills. This is impressive, we have been pleased with drugs that slow down decline and this drug promises improvements plus a dramatic leveling of decline in the future.

All of the ingredients in this drug are commonly available supplements. The big difference is the size of the dose of metafolin 5.6 mg. Another than that, this drug contains 2 mg of methylcobalmin and 600 mg of NAC.

These are dramatic claims and usually with dramatic claims there are risks. I am wondering what the risks are of just taking the same ingredients in the same proportions?

[david ellis]

ttt

[The Likud Is Behind It]

bump

[OneScrewLoose]

I think by the end of this month, every thread I have ever made on this board will have been bumped.

[Cappa]

I'm also interested in this thread.

OneScrewLoose, how did the methylation supps work out for you?

[OneScrewLoose]

When I first took methylfolate, it had weird effects on my blood flow. I would cramp up more easily then normal sitting in normal postures. Also, when meditating, my legs would sometimes go numb (this was when I was also taking Buspar, another thing which has weird effects on my bloodflow). I later dropped the Buspar, and was taking Metanx and TMG, still having some blood flow problems. Also, if I took SAM-E with the TMG and Metanx, it would give me a panic attack. I don't know if it was the TMG, one of the vitamins in the Metnax, or everything. But the combination of SAM-E with the other probably overstimulated the production of NE or something like that. I later got off the Metanx, and then off the TMG. I got a blood test being just on a normal multi with B6, B9, and B12 and my homocysteine came out normal, so it seems like I don't need the special methylated forms. I now take SAM-E again with no problems.