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Another anti-lyme combo


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#1 notlupus

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Posted 24 April 2009 - 03:14 AM


I haven't typed everything out lately, so I should probably do this and see what everyone thinks.
EOD = every other day
QD = every day
BID = twice a day
TID = 3x daily


Meds:
fluconazole (generic diflucan) 200mg qd for 50 days, then 30 days (minimum) of 300k units of penicillin procaine and 300k benzathine EOD
armour thyroid 75mg upon waking, 30 mg early afternoon
adderall 10mg am, sometimes 5mg later in the day
zyrtec upon waking because the allegra I was taking interacts with the fluconazole

Supplements:
~3g black elderberry extract every morning (Sambucol, got it free so why not)
ALCAR ~750mg BID (labs showed carnitine deficiency)
ALA 300mg BID, taken at the same time as the ALCAR
Cat's Claw 500mg BID
Cod liver oil with 1250iu A and 130iu D BID
CoQ10 200mg in the morning
Ginseng (panax) 750mg (60mg ginsenosides)
NAC 600mg in the morning
Methyl-B12 1g sublingual daily
Milk Thistle (80% silymarin) BID to TID (when I remember to take it at lunch)

At bed time when I remember (I was taking twice as much, but cut back because I wasn't sure if the fluconazole interfered with their metabolism):
500mg calcium
200mg magnesium citrate
25mg zinc gluconate

I drink some kefir at least twice a day, trying to repopulate the gut after long term antibiotics.

I was taking cinnamon and oil of oregano but suspect they might have been causing stomach issues when combined with fluconazole.

#2 k10

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Posted 24 April 2009 - 06:07 AM

I would increases the magnesium to 500, as you should be aiming for a 1:1 ratio between your calcium and magnesium.

Other than that looking good for now. I'm not sure what your goals are at the moment so I can't make any additional comments.

Are you aware of any coinfections that you are dealing with as well?

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#3 notlupus

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Posted 24 April 2009 - 02:45 PM

I would increases the magnesium to 500, as you should be aiming for a 1:1 ratio between your calcium and magnesium.

Other than that looking good for now. I'm not sure what your goals are at the moment so I can't make any additional comments.

Are you aware of any coinfections that you are dealing with as well?

I was tested for coinfections and it was negative, so just lyme. Right now I've scaled back the supplements since it seems like everything interacts with diflucan and I wanted to be safe. My main goal is to increase my energy and immune function to help deal with the lyme. I've had lyme for over 3 years and it's to the point where I'm ready to drop out of school and apply for disability soon if I don't see something other than a very gradual improvement. I should be happy with any improvement, but I'm too tired to go to school and harass my doctors to get proper treatment so for now I've had to switch to ordering my meds from overseas.

#4 Lufega

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Posted 24 April 2009 - 03:32 PM

I would probably eliminate calcium altogether until you regain good stores of magnesium. Calcium is more abundant in food than magnesium is and you probably get a good amount of calcium from kefir. Have you measured calcium levels lately? That's your best bet instead of my second guessing. I would also up the magnesium up to even 800 mg.

How do you feel since taking fluconazole? Have you noticed an improvement??

#5 notlupus

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Posted 24 April 2009 - 03:43 PM

How do you feel since taking fluconazole? Have you noticed an improvement??

The first week was great, but the last 3 days I have been tired and feeling like crap. I'm wondering if it's some sort of herx, or maybe a symptom of reducing the amount of magnesium and cod liver oil I'm taking. Last night I found a bottle of electrolytes in the back of the fridge so I took some of that then and again this morning to see if it would help.

#6 FunkOdyssey

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Posted 24 April 2009 - 04:20 PM

I agree with what they've said about magnesium and calcium above. You probably need alot more Vitamin D than that, check blood levels before/after dose adjustments. Zinc gluconate is a relatively poorly absorbed form of zinc, you might consider zinc bisglycinate instead, or zinc picolinate.

#7 notlupus

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Posted 24 April 2009 - 05:21 PM

Ok, no calcium and 400 to 600mg of magnesium. I just bought the bottle of zinc gluconate so I'd rather up the dose of that if needed than order a different kind for now. It might be the magnesium.

For D, I get 260mg from the cod liver oil and it seems like it's in everything. Milk, cereal (yes, I have some dietary vices), multivitamin I forgot to list. etc. I might try taking 3 cod liver oil a day, my concern is that the diflucan interferes with it's metabolism and I didn't want to over dose on it.

#8 notlupus

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 12:22 PM

The magnesium seems to be helping; I had more energy yesterday. I've also started drinking gatorade to help with the orthostatic intolerance. Before I run out I'll get some salt substitute so I can start making my own with stevia to avoid the HFCS.

#9 notlupus

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 12:23 PM

Also, I must sadly report than ingesting cat hair does not cure lyme disease. It's official, the boyfriend's evil beast is good for nothing but shoving stuff off of my desk.

Edited by notlupus, 27 April 2009 - 12:36 PM.


#10 k10

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 09:02 PM

I've also started drinking gatorade to help with the orthostatic intolerance.


Licorice Root would be more effective for this. You can buy licorice root at a health food store and make tea out of it... or if you prefer just buy it in pill form.

#11 Lufega

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 11:35 PM

Licorice root does indeed work well for this problem. I second it. Your cat is good for two things: toxoplasmosis and cytomegalovirus. Oh wait, 3, there's also Tenia corporis. :p

#12 notlupus

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 02:43 AM

Licorice root does indeed work well for this problem. I second it. Your cat is good for two things: toxoplasmosis and cytomegalovirus. Oh wait, 3, there's also Tenia corporis. :p

I'll have to add licorice to my list of things to order. I think I might get that and sulbutiamine or allicin or venus fly trap or something. I don't want to add too many things at once and risk having another nasty herx.

The cat is not mine. I just have to share space with it. :p

#13 notlupus

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Posted 29 April 2009 - 02:20 PM

I got my blood drawn yesterday, so we'll see if 13 doses of fluconazole have killed my liver. The dr ordered a SMAC and CBC.

Note: do not leave powdered ALCAR unattended around curious animals. I'm pretty sure the cat snorted some while I wasn't looking and made my life more interesting last night. This morning instead of finding her favorite toy (the shorter whip in the picture, 4' long, with a cat toy on the end) at the base of the stairs as normal she'd pulled it all the way upstairs into my bedroom. :)

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#14 notlupus

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Posted 08 May 2009 - 02:01 AM

I've added licorice for orthostatic hypotension (it worked fairly well, I think I need to take a little more tomorrow), and fish oil because it was free so why not.

All labs were normal, nothing out of the ordinary but I think I'm going to cut the fluconazole short to 28 days. I've been feeling bad for weeks and I'm thinking it might be the diflucan so only 4 more days to go then I'll switch to the penicillin shots. Just being able to take the allegra again will make me feel better.

#15 Lufega

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Posted 11 May 2009 - 10:25 PM

I'm happy to see your liver survived this war. Maybe fluc. isn't such a nasty devil after all. Since you're feeling ill, could you benefit from extending the fluc to 50 days? Are you herxing?

#16 notlupus

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Posted 12 May 2009 - 12:23 AM

I'm happy to see your liver survived this war. Maybe fluc. isn't such a nasty devil after all. Since you're feeling ill, could you benefit from extending the fluc to 50 days? Are you herxing?

It's different from a herx. A herx would leave me feeling awful and then go away. This hasn't done that so I'm not completely sure what's happening, but if it's some sort of side effect of the fluco then it should be going away soon. 25 days was what was used in the original paper so it should be enough, worst case I can do another course if I find it helped but wasn't quite enough.

#17 rwac

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Posted 12 May 2009 - 03:12 AM

Are you herxing?

It's different from a herx. A herx would leave me feeling awful and then go away. This hasn't done that so I'm not completely sure what's happening, but if it's some sort of side effect of the fluco then it should be going away soon. 25 days was what was used in the original paper so it should be enough, worst case I can do another course if I find it helped but wasn't quite enough.


I've had chronic herxes from taking 400mg doxy.
Basically a continuous low grade herx. Maybe you're experiencing the same thing ?

#18 notlupus

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Posted 12 May 2009 - 05:20 PM

Are you herxing?

It's different from a herx. A herx would leave me feeling awful and then go away. This hasn't done that so I'm not completely sure what's happening, but if it's some sort of side effect of the fluco then it should be going away soon. 25 days was what was used in the original paper so it should be enough, worst case I can do another course if I find it helped but wasn't quite enough.


I've had chronic herxes from taking 400mg doxy.
Basically a continuous low grade herx. Maybe you're experiencing the same thing ?

Maybe, or maybe it's not doing enough to kill the bacteria and they are making me feel worse. Who knows. I'll be adding the oregano oil and cinnamon back since taking them and the diflucan together definitely made me feel awful.

#19 notlupus

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Posted 15 May 2009 - 02:46 PM

It's been 5 days since I quit the fluconazole and I'm definitely emerging from the fog. Slowly getting more energy and I'm able to think a little more clearly. Nothing huge, but enough to become semi-functional again. I'm not sure if it's the fluconazole or the penicillin shots, but I'm not complaining. Added the oregano oil back, upped the coq10, and the licorice is definitely helping. I just wish I wasn't such a wuss about giving myself penicillin. I've never been queasy giving myself B12 shots or working in surgery, but I get lightheaded whenever I have to give myself the penicillin shots. :)

I should post an updated list

Meds:
300k units of penicillin procaine and 300k benzathine EOD
armour thyroid 75mg upon waking, 30 mg early afternoon
adderall 10mg am, sometimes 5mg later in the day
allegra

Supplements:
~3g black elderberry extract every morning (Sambucol, got it free so why not)
ALCAR ~750mg BID (labs showed carnitine deficiency)
ALA 300mg BID, taken at the same time as the ALCAR
Cat's Claw 500mg BID
Cod liver oil with 1250iu A and 130iu D TID
CoQ10 300mg in the morning (upped this from 200, got some crazy cheap and want to see if it makes a difference)
Ginseng (panax) 750mg (60mg ginsenosides)
NAC 600mg in the morning
Methyl-B12 1g sublingual daily
Milk Thistle 250mg (80% silymarin) BID
Icelandic health fish oil with 400mg of Omega3s (should probably up the dose, another one of those free so why not supplements)
Oregano oil (NOW 181mg with 55%carvacrol) BID
Licorice 450mg 1 to 2 caps 2 to 3 times daily

At bed time:
400mg to 600mg magnesium citrate (200mg, one late afternoon one at bed time and sometimes one between)
50mg zinc gluconate
Nature Made multivitamin

I drink some kefir at least twice a day, trying to repopulate the gut after long term antibiotics.

#20 nameless

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Posted 15 May 2009 - 05:12 PM

If the CoQ10 is in smaller caps than 300mg, you may be better off splitting the dosages throughout the day. It most likely absorbs better with split dosing.

Have you had your serum D levels checked?

Somewhat high dose of zinc there, without any copper.

And I'm not sure how sensitive Armour is to minerals, but I suppose you may need to make sure the Kefir and mag are taken several hours after taking the afternoon Armour dose, or absorption will be affected. I know for Synthroid it works like that, so the T4 in Armour probably is the same.

#21 notlupus

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Posted 16 May 2009 - 01:15 PM

Yup, I take the armour separate from the magnesium and any food.

I ordered some NOW multi mineral caps and I'll be taking those instead of just the zinc once they arrive on Monday. The multi has 2mg of copper and I take it at the same time as the zinc. I got 60 200mg coq10 chewables for $4.75 a bottle (bought 4, walgreens brand but even if it has half the stated amount of coq10 still a good deal) so I might take the 200 in the morning and the 100 in the afternoon.

Edited by notlupus, 16 May 2009 - 01:17 PM.


#22 notlupus

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Posted 16 June 2009 - 07:32 PM

Wow, the penicillin is working! I'm starting to have more energy and mental clarity. The mental clarity seemed to show up soon after I switched from the diflucan to pen shots and the energy has been coming back very slowly. I still get lightheaded at times when doing stuff, but that's a good thing because before I was too tired to do anything at all. I started the shots on the 12th of may and at this point I'm planning on continuing them for several more months, then I'll decide if I want to take the rest of the diflucan. I upped the dose from 2ml to 2.5ml every other day.

#23 FunkOdyssey

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Posted 16 June 2009 - 08:28 PM

I've actually been feeling good lately on a high dose of amoxicillin (1500mg TID, 4.5g in total). Olga couldn't give me the bicillin shots anymore as the act of giving the shot seems to cause her anxiety, which is funny since I am the one that has to endure the shot and it didn't bother me at all.

I determined that a 1.2mu shot of bicillin contains only 750mg of penicillin. Now I realize amoxicillin has a half-life of only an hour, but if you take a million grams of it spaced throughout the day, combined with probenecid to inhibit its excretion, I don't see why it would not be at least as effective as such a tiny dose of intramuscular penicillin every-other-day. Vast majority of an amoxicillin dose is eliminated via the kidneys so negative effects on the gut flora are minimal for such a large dose of antibiotics.

Burrascano used six grams of amoxicillin daily, 2g TID with 500mg probenecid TID. That will probably be my goal, although I've heard of people going much higher with successful results, 7.5g, 9g, even 18g in some cases.

Edited by FunkOdyssey, 16 June 2009 - 08:29 PM.


#24 notlupus

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Posted 17 June 2009 - 04:47 PM

I should probably take probenecid with the pen shots. Right now I'm only getting 750k units a shot, 1/2 procaine and 1/2 benzathine. My problem with the amoxi was that I'd forget to take it at least once a day when trying for TID and after 6 months I started having some horrible digestive issues. The shots are much easier for me.

You can give yourself the pen shots. That's what I've been doing the whole time. I saw that the bicillin came with a 18g needle and tried it. Holy crap that was the most painful thing I have ever experienced. I'll gladly take a 20 or 22g and deal with it clogging every now and then.

#25 Lufega

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Posted 18 June 2009 - 01:03 AM

Penicillin is the standard treatmet for syphilis. I never understood why it wouldn't work for Lyme disease as well.

Found this article writen by Mr. Burgdorfer himself. He's promoting something called Mild Silver Protein for treating Lyme. Anyone heard of this before?

http://www.xpressnet...lthy/burgd.html

#26 notlupus

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Posted 18 June 2009 - 11:09 PM

Penicillin is the standard treatmet for syphilis. I never understood why it wouldn't work for Lyme disease as well.

Found this article writen by Mr. Burgdorfer himself. He's promoting something called Mild Silver Protein for treating Lyme. Anyone heard of this before?

http://www.xpressnet...lthy/burgd.html

That's why I wanted to start with the pen shots. They are standard treatment for neurosyphilis, and it's been studied a lot longer than lyme. I'm also thinking the diflucan first might have somehow made the penicillin more effective, since I wasn't having much luck with the amoxi.

I started the pen on the 12th of May so I'm going to wait at least until the end of june before I decide if I want to do another course of diflucan. I've been trying to take oregano oil to prevent fungal growth but it gives me horrible heartburn. I've been out of town for a couple weeks, so I need to go buy some kefir tonight and start taking that again.

#27 k10

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Posted 19 June 2009 - 03:23 AM

You might wanna consider adding some grapefruit seed extract (liquid) daily to fight the cyst form of lyme.

#28 rwac

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Posted 19 June 2009 - 03:26 AM

You might wanna consider adding some grapefruit seed extract (liquid) daily to fight the cyst form of lyme.


What's your experience with Grapefruit Seed Extract ?

Do you think it worked ?

#29 k10

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Posted 19 June 2009 - 05:27 AM

You might wanna consider adding some grapefruit seed extract (liquid) daily to fight the cyst form of lyme.


What's your experience with Grapefruit Seed Extract ?

Do you think it worked ?

I'm still taking it and I definitely feel it working after every single dose of taking it. Very powerful stuff when combined with antibiotics.

I'm taking the triple strength version of it, I bought it here:
http://www.pureliquidgold.com/
It's a good place to buy.

I started off with 5 drops 2-3 times a day, now I'm taking 10 drops 1-2 times a day. 1 drop of the triple strength is equivalent to 3 drops of other brands, so taking 10 drops is a huge dosage.

My doctor told me to take it for the cyst form of lyme, and when I was researching it apparently there are studies showing that grapefruit seed extract indeed kills the cyst form, see:

http://www.springerl...text.pdf?page=1
"Grapefruit Seed Extract is a Powerful in vitro Agent Against Motile and Cystic Forms of Borrelia burgdorferi sensu lato"

Edited by k10, 19 June 2009 - 05:28 AM.


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#30 notlupus

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Posted 20 June 2009 - 04:35 PM

I started off with 5 drops 2-3 times a day, now I'm taking 10 drops 1-2 times a day. 1 drop of the triple strength is equivalent to 3 drops of other brands, so taking 10 drops is a huge dosage.

My doctor told me to take it for the cyst form of lyme, and when I was researching it apparently there are studies showing that grapefruit seed extract indeed kills the cyst form, see:

http://www.springerl...text.pdf?page=1
"Grapefruit Seed Extract is a Powerful in vitro Agent Against Motile and Cystic Forms of Borrelia burgdorferi sensu lato"

Looks like there are 600 drops per oz, so with 15 drops a day a bottle should last about 60 days. Does that sounds about right? How long are you supposed to take it? What antibiotics are you combining it with?

I'm interested, but I'm already taking so many supplements I'm wondering if I should cut back, not to mention that my grad school funding is disappearing and I just had to spend $250 on motorcycle parts (cylinder head)




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