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Best "B-Complex" Supplement


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#1 Mike_N

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Posted 30 April 2009 - 10:40 PM


I am currently taking the "B Right" complex from Jarrow.
It seems pretty good. My only concerns are the Niacinamide instead of having all Niacin and I have
also read that Pyridoxin HCL can compete with binding sites with the P5P form of B6.

Is there a better "b complex" I might look into or additional B-vits I should take with this supplement.
Note: I am also taking 50mg of sublingual P5P a day.

Mike

Here are the Stats on the Jarrow Formula
Vitamin B1 (Thiamine Mononitrate)25 mg1667% Vitamin B2 (Riboflavin)25 mg1470% Vitamin B3 (Niacin)25 mg125% Vitamin B3 (Niacinamide)100 mg500% Vitamin B5 (d-Calcium Pantothenate)100 mg1000% Pantethine (Vitamin B5 derivative)25 mg*Vitamin B6 (Pyridoxine HCL)25 mg1250% Vitamin B6 (Pyridoxal 5-Phosphate)10 mg500% Vitamin B12 (as Methylcobalamin)100 mcg1667% Folic Acid (Folate)400 mcg100% Biotin300 mcg100% PABA (Para-Aminobenzoic Acid)30 mg*Choline (as Choline Bitartrate50 mg*Inositol50 mg

#2 ajnast4r

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Posted 30 April 2009 - 11:58 PM

this is probably the best b complex ive seen:

http://www.swansonvi...il?n=4294967188

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#3 spaceistheplace

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Posted 01 May 2009 - 12:11 AM

that is a really well formulated b-vitamin. kind of surprised it's from swanson.

#4 rwac

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Posted 01 May 2009 - 12:12 AM

this is probably the best b complex ive seen:

http://www.swansonvi...il?n=4294967188


Hmm, Benfotiamine doesn't cross the BBB into the brain, so it's probably not the ideal form of B1 for a multi.
It's useful for anti-glycation, but it's probably not useful to fix a transketolase deficiency.

I take 150 mg of Benfotiamine everyday, so I definitely appreciate it's benefits.
I just think that a B-Complex (or a Multi) should provide forms which can perform all the necessary tasks for that vitamin.

Is the niacin in Inositol Hexaniacinate really bio-available ?

Edited by rwac, 01 May 2009 - 12:22 AM.


#5 ajnast4r

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Posted 01 May 2009 - 12:29 AM

that is a really well formulated b-vitamin. kind of surprised it's from swanson.


swansons house brand is good quality, and their ultra and premium lines are generally formulated very well.



Hmm, Benfotiamine doesn't cross the BBB into the brain, so it's probably not the ideal form of B1 for a multi.
It's useful for anti-glycation, but it's probably not useful to fix a transketolase deficiency.


benfotiamine raises serum thiamine pyrophosphate

http://www.efsa.euro...f?ssbinary=true

Benfotiamine is absorbed much better than water soluble thiamine salts. Maximum plasma
levels of thiamine are about 5-fold higher after benfotiamine intake and the bioavailability is
about 3.6 times as high as that of thiamine hydrochloride and better than that of other
lipophilic thiamine derivatives. The increase in relative bioavailability is most significant in
muscle (5-fold greater incorporation) and brain (25-fold increase), but thiamine from
benfotiamine is also 10-40% better incorporated in other organs, such as liver and kidney. The
Panel concludes that the bioavailability of thiamine from benfotiamine is higher than that from
other sources.


Is the niacin in Inositol Hexaniacinate really bio-available ?


yes

http://www.efsa.euro...11902334101.htm

When inositol hexanicotinate is administered orally to humans, this results in a sustained increase in the level of free nicotinic acid in blood and plasma. Inositol hexanicotinate appears to be metabolised slowly, not reaching maximum serum levels of nicotinic acid until approximately 6-10 hours after ingestion, whereas upon intake of free nicotinic acid plasma levels peak after 0.5-1 hour.


Edited by ajnast4r, 01 May 2009 - 12:31 AM.


#6 tunt01

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Posted 01 May 2009 - 12:33 AM

that swanson is a pretty damn good B vitamin. is it safe to megadose a lot of these b-vitamins so high? 2,500% of the daily RDA, etc. ?

#7 ajnast4r

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Posted 01 May 2009 - 12:37 AM

that swanson is a pretty damn good B vitamin. is it safe to megadose a lot of these b-vitamins so high? 2,500% of the daily RDA, etc. ?


no one really knows... they are safe in that they are not lethal, and at the 50mg range wont have any obvious detrimental side effects. but as far as their effects long term... cancer, epigenetic expression etc etc... no on knows. i personally would not, and do not megadose B vitamins.

if taken ever 3 or 4 days i doubt it would be a problem... b vitamins have a very long half life.

#8 tunt01

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Posted 01 May 2009 - 12:39 AM

no one really knows... they are safe in that they are not lethal, and at the 50mg range wont have any obvious detrimental side effects. but as far as their effects long term... cancer, epigenetic expression etc etc... no on knows. i personally would not, and do not megadose B vitamins.

if taken ever 3 or 4 days i doubt it would be a problem... b vitamins have a very long half life.


thanks for the thoughts. i also have a bunch of B-complex vitamins from vitamin shoppe. it's not nearly as good as the swanson, but has the same megadose issue. i've been cutting them up into like 1/6ths ! lol...

#9 ajnast4r

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Posted 01 May 2009 - 12:45 AM

thanks for the thoughts. i also have a bunch of B-complex vitamins from vitamin shoppe. it's not nearly as good as the swanson, but has the same megadose issue. i've been cutting them up into like 1/6ths ! lol...


dont use vitamin shoppe house brand unless its a branded product... even then i still wouldnt unless it was my last choice.

#10 tunt01

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Posted 01 May 2009 - 12:56 AM

dont use vitamin shoppe house brand unless its a branded product... even then i still wouldnt unless it was my last choice.


yea, the stuff is terrible. i just didn't know any better and have 300 of these things. I actually stopped taking them all together. I'm probably just going to toss them and order the Swanson.

Edited by prophets, 01 May 2009 - 12:57 AM.


#11 renwosing

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Posted 01 May 2009 - 01:33 AM

Jarrows Formula - B-Right.

I like this better.

Renwosing

#12 RoadToAwe

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Posted 01 May 2009 - 01:53 AM

AOR's Advanced B Comples is another good option.

http://aor.ca/html/products.php?id=8

#13 rwac

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Posted 01 May 2009 - 02:34 AM

Hmm, Benfotiamine doesn't cross the BBB into the brain, so it's probably not the ideal form of B1 for a multi.
It's useful for anti-glycation, but it's probably not useful to fix a transketolase deficiency.



Here's an article claiming the Benfotiamine does not increase thaimine levels in the brain.

"When mice received a daily oral administration of benfotiamine for 14 days, thiamine derivatives were increased significantly in the liver but not in the brain"

http://www.biomedcen.../1471-2210/8/10

Benfotiamine, a synthetic S-acyl thiamine derivative, has different mechanisms of action and a different pharmacological profile than lipid-soluble thiamine disulfide derivatives.
Volvert ML, Seyen S, Piette M, Evrard B, Gangolf M, Plumier JC, Bettendorff L. Center for Cellular and Molecular Neurobiology, University of Liège, Avenue de l'Hôpital, 1, 4000 Liège, Belgium. Marie-Laure.Volvert@student.ulg.ac.be

BACKGROUND: Lipid-soluble thiamine precursors have a much higher bioavailability than genuine thiamine and therefore are more suitable for therapeutic purposes. Benfotiamine (S-benzoylthiamine O-monophosphate), an amphiphilic S-acyl thiamine derivative, prevents the progression of diabetic complications, probably by increasing tissue levels of thiamine diphosphate and so enhancing transketolase activity. As the brain is particularly sensitive to thiamine deficiency, we wanted to test whether intracellular thiamine and thiamine phosphate levels are increased in the brain after oral benfotiamine administration.


RESULTS: Benfotiamine that is practically insoluble in water, organic solvents or oil was solubilized in 200 mM hydroxypropyl-beta-cyclodextrin and the mice received a single oral administration of 100 mg/kg. Though thiamine levels rapidly increased in blood and liver to reach a maximum after one or two hours, no significant increase was observed in the brain. When mice received a daily oral administration of benfotiamine for 14 days, thiamine derivatives were increased significantly in the liver but not in the brain, compared to control mice. In addition, incubation of cultured neuroblastoma cells with 10 muM benfotiamine did not lead to increased intracellular thiamine levels. Moreover, in thiamine-depleted neuroblastoma cells, intracellular thiamine contents increased more rapidly after addition of thiamine to the culture medium than after addition of benfotiamine for which a lag period was observed.


CONCLUSION: Our results show that, though benfotiamine strongly increases thiamine levels in blood and liver, it has no significant effect in the brain. This would explain why beneficial effects of benfotiamine have only been observed in peripheral tissues, while sulbutiamine, a lipid-soluble thiamine disulfide derivative, that increases thiamine derivatives in the brain as well as in cultured cells, acts as a central nervous system drug. We propose that benfotiamine only penetrates the cells after dephosphorylation by intestinal alkaline phosphatases. It then enters the bloodstream as S-benzoylthiamine that is converted to thiamine in erythrocytes and in the liver. Benfotiamine, an S-acyl derivative practically insoluble in organic solvents, should therefore be differentiated from truly lipid-soluble thiamine disulfide derivatives (allithiamine and the synthetic sulbutiamine and fursultiamine) with a different mechanism of absorption and different pharmacological properties.


Edit: add link to full paper.

Edited by rwac, 01 May 2009 - 02:49 AM.


#14 Lufega

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Posted 01 May 2009 - 02:56 AM

Hmm, Benfotiamine doesn't cross the BBB into the brain, so it's probably not the ideal form of B1 for a multi.
It's useful for anti-glycation, but it's probably not useful to fix a transketolase deficiency.


benfotiamine raises serum thiamine pyrophosphate

http://www.efsa.euro...f?ssbinary=true

Benfotiamine is absorbed much better than water soluble thiamine salts. Maximum plasma
levels of thiamine are about 5-fold higher after benfotiamine intake and the bioavailability is
about 3.6 times as high as that of thiamine hydrochloride and better than that of other
lipophilic thiamine derivatives. The increase in relative bioavailability is most significant in
muscle (5-fold greater incorporation) and brain (25-fold increase), but thiamine from
benfotiamine is also 10-40% better incorporated in other organs, such as liver and kidney. The
Panel concludes that the bioavailability of thiamine from benfotiamine is higher than that from
other sources.


Is the niacin in Inositol Hexaniacinate really bio-available ?


yes

http://www.efsa.euro...11902334101.htm

When inositol hexanicotinate is administered orally to humans, this results in a sustained increase in the level of free nicotinic acid in blood and plasma. Inositol hexanicotinate appears to be metabolised slowly, not reaching maximum serum levels of nicotinic acid until approximately 6-10 hours after ingestion, whereas upon intake of free nicotinic acid plasma levels peak after 0.5-1 hour.


Rwac was correct. Benfotiamine doesn't cross the BBB so it's derivatives wont act centrally.

#15 rwac

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Posted 01 May 2009 - 03:05 AM

Benfotiamine doesn't cross the BBB so it's derivatives wont act centrally.


Lufega, How do you resolve the conflicting papers ?
ajnast4r's points to a paper which indicates the exact opposite.

"In muscle and brain tissue a 5 to 25 fold higher amount of tracer incorporation was registered following benfotiamine as compared with the thiamine application"

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9638312

Comparative autoradiographic investigations on the tissue distribution of benfotiamine versus thiamine in mice.
Hilbig R, Rahmann H. University of Hohenheim, Institute for Zoology, Stuttgart, Germany.

The tissue distribution of two therapeutically applied preparations of B-vitamins were investigated in blood and selected organs (liver, brain, muscle, kidney) of laboratory mice using autoradiographic techniques. Incorporation of lipid-soluble 3H-benfotiamine (CAS 22457-89-2) and water-soluble 3H-thiaminehydrochloride (CAS 67-03-8) (200 microCi, equivalent to 105 mg vitamin/kg body weight) was monitored between 0.75 and 168 h after an oral or subcutaneous administration. The labelled tissue slices were autoradiographically analysed after a differential histochemical extraction procedure to evaluate the respective total radioactivity, the uptake into lipid-soluble, water-soluble and residual macromolecular compounds. Evaluation of these autoradiographic data (given as mumol vitamin preparation/mg tissue equivalent) proved that benfotiamine is incorporated much better than thiaminehydrochloride independent of the administration mode. In muscle and brain tissue a 5 to 25 fold higher amount of tracer incorporation was registered following benfotiamine as compared with the thiamine application, whereas in all other organs the difference in the label was mostly between 10 and 40%. Concerning the organ specific distribution, liver and kidney were the structures labelled highest by both substances and administration procedures. In the liver, concerning all incorporation times, a higher proportion of residual macromolecular compounds was found, whereas in the kidney the proportions of lipid- as well as of water-soluble materials prevailed. These data should be clinically relevant.



#16 BioFactor

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Posted 01 May 2009 - 03:08 AM

AOR's Advanced B Comples is another good option.

http://aor.ca/html/products.php?id=8


Is AOR a good company? I have never heard of them. This product looks perfect for me.

Unfortunately, I am using Solgars "B-Complex 100". I have hearing some bad things about solgar (lead found in some of their Turmeric supplements as well as harmful bacteria found in another one of thier products). Here is the Solgar brand I currently am using: http://www.iherb.com...Caps/12580?at=0

#17 Dmitri

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Posted 01 May 2009 - 03:39 AM

AOR's Advanced B Comples is another good option.

http://aor.ca/html/products.php?id=8


Is AOR a good company? I have never heard of them. This product looks perfect for me.

Unfortunately, I am using Solgars "B-Complex 100". I have hearing some bad things about solgar (lead found in some of their Turmeric supplements as well as harmful bacteria found in another one of thier products). Here is the Solgar brand I currently am using: http://www.iherb.com...Caps/12580?at=0


AOR is from Canada which is likely why you've never heard of them. You can buy some of their products from relentless improvement.

#18 stephen_b

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Posted 01 May 2009 - 03:42 AM

that is a really well formulated b-vitamin. kind of surprised it's from swanson.

Me too. Swanson's the only place to go for methylfolate. The rest of the package looks to be pretty good too. I might also take 50 mg of thiamine and an additional 400-800 mcg of methylfolate were I to switch to this one.

StephenB

#19 renwosing

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Posted 01 May 2009 - 03:42 AM

Jarrows Formula would be a cheaper alternative to AOR.

But I like them both:)

Renwosing

#20 Mike_N

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Posted 01 May 2009 - 02:17 PM

Jarrows Formula would be a cheaper alternative to AOR.

But I like them both:)

Renwosing


Yea, I have considered buying the AOR product.
My only hesitation with that was that its 800 mcg of folic acid per capsule. I have read there is debate that the
body can't process more than 400 mcg max at a time.
I am also not sure about the effectiveness of inositol hexanicotinate (in the AOR) versus plain niacin.
The AOR has benfotiamine as the only source of B1.

Perhaps I will just stick with the Jarrow product. Its def. got bang for the buck at about $8 for 100 caps.

Mike

#21 pycnogenol

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Posted 01 May 2009 - 04:16 PM

This is the one I take

Country Life, Coenzyme B-Complex, 240 Veggie Caps

http://www.iherb.com...Caps/12081?at=0

"Coenzyme B vitamins do not require the usual conversion by the liver but are directly transported to their action sties.
This enables the body to use these coenzyme B vitamins more efficiently, thus lower potencies are needed for energy production."


#22 ajnast4r

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Posted 01 May 2009 - 05:25 PM

Rwac was correct. Benfotiamine doesn't cross the BBB so it's derivatives wont act centrally.


Lufega, How do you resolve the conflicting papers ?
ajnast4r's points to a paper which indicates the exact opposite.


benfotiamine may not itself cross, but it appears it does convert to active coenzyme thiamine pyrophosphate just like thiamine and all the other thiamine analogs do. so it appears it would be a nutritionally valuable source of vitamin b1.

#23 nancyd

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Posted 01 May 2009 - 08:42 PM

This is the one I take

Country Life, Coenzyme B-Complex, 240 Veggie Caps

http://www.iherb.com...Caps/12081?at=0

"Coenzyme B vitamins do not require the usual conversion by the liver but are directly transported to their action sties.
This enables the body to use these coenzyme B vitamins more efficiently, thus lower potencies are needed for energy production."



That's the one I take too. I don't notice any effect when I take it though. Do others notice any difference?

#24 Lufega

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Posted 01 May 2009 - 09:49 PM

This is the one I take

Country Life, Coenzyme B-Complex, 240 Veggie Caps

http://www.iherb.com...Caps/12081?at=0

"Coenzyme B vitamins do not require the usual conversion by the liver but are directly transported to their action sties.
This enables the body to use these coenzyme B vitamins more efficiently, thus lower potencies are needed for energy production."



That's the one I take too. I don't notice any effect when I take it though. Do others notice any difference?


I was wondering this too. I use the coenzyme version and I don't feel that B-vitamin buzz or energy surge. There's just nothing. Makes me wonder.


ajnast4r
benfotiamine may not itself cross, but it appears it does convert to active coenzyme thiamine pyrophosphate just like thiamine and all the other thiamine analogs do. so it appears it would be a nutritionally valuable source of vitamin b1.


Thanks, that makes it clearer.

#25 yowza

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Posted 01 May 2009 - 10:42 PM

This is the one I take

Country Life, Coenzyme B-Complex, 240 Veggie Caps

http://www.iherb.com...Caps/12081?at=0

"Coenzyme B vitamins do not require the usual conversion by the liver but are directly transported to their action sties.
This enables the body to use these coenzyme B vitamins more efficiently, thus lower potencies are needed for energy production."



That's the one I take too. I don't notice any effect when I take it though. Do others notice any difference?


Including just the coenzyme form of each B-vitamine is a very interesting concept. However, if they're going to use the name "Coenzyme" every single main category should have at least 1 activated form for it. Folic Acid for instance is not the derivative/active form of B9 (it is B9). This is still a good receommendation though. I'd just doublecheck the ingrediants under each category to see if it needs to be tweaked at all.

Edited by yowza, 01 May 2009 - 10:43 PM.


#26 Bghead8che

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Posted 02 May 2009 - 05:11 PM

Is not the 800 mcg dosage of Folic Acid a deal breaker? Once could easily top 1000 mcg by taking this and the amount ingested from food daily.

-Brian

#27 stephen_b

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Posted 02 May 2009 - 06:22 PM

Is not the 800 mcg dosage of Folic Acid a deal breaker? Once could easily top 1000 mcg by taking this and the amount ingested from food daily.

-Brian

I'm not sure how meaningful the 1 mg UL for folic acid is for those taking adequate B12. A risk of too much folic acid is masking a B12 deficiency. The other risk is that folic acid is supplemented faster than the liver can metabolize it. Unmetabolized folic acid may be harmful (PMID 16365081 and 18326588):

In humans, increased folic acid intake leads to elevated blood concentrations of naturally occurring folates and of unmetabolized folic acid. High blood concentrations of folic acid may be related to decreased natural killer cell cytotoxicity, and high folate status may reduce the response to antifolate drugs used against malaria, rheumatoid arthritis, psoriasis, and cancer. In the elderly, a combination of high folate levels and low vitamin B-12 status may be associated with an increased risk of cognitive impairment and anemia and, in pregnant women, with an increased risk of insulin resistance and obesity in their children.

StephenB

#28 pycnogenol

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Posted 02 May 2009 - 11:20 PM

I was wondering this too. I use the coenzyme version and I don't feel that B-vitamin buzz or energy surge.
There's just nothing.



Not me. I get a very nice "hit" off the coenzyme version each and every time I take it. Remember to always take it 1 hour before or 2 hours after a meal.

#29 yowza

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Posted 03 May 2009 - 12:16 AM

I was wondering this too. I use the coenzyme version and I don't feel that B-vitamin buzz or energy surge.
There's just nothing.



Not me. I get a very nice "hit" off the coenzyme version each and every time I take it. Remember to always take it 1 hour before or 2 hours after a meal.


I'm not saying you'll experience no effect off it nor that it's not a good B-vitamin supplement.

I was commenting on the list of ingrediants as opposed to the subjective experience you can get off of this.

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#30 Pablo M

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Posted 03 May 2009 - 12:46 AM

The Swanson brand says it contains 50% of the folic acid as "5 methyltetrahydrofolic acid (calcium salt)." That's kind of ambiguous as to whether it's methylfolate or calcium folinate (folinic acid).
Posted Image

Edited by Pablo M, 03 May 2009 - 12:47 AM.





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