18 replies to this topic

[youandme]

Whats peoples take on this expensive supplement from mannatech...fact or pure fiction ?!

Ive heard recently anecdotal reports of sick people feeling well again.

[Jacovis]

I am not sure about GlycoNutrients. Ray Sahelian's site has quite a bit about the topic: http://www.raysaheli...onutrients.html. This recent study looks interesting as well (though there might well bias - Mannatech's Ambrotose product was being used)...

1: Percept Mot Skills. 2009 Feb;108(1):259-70.
Glyconutrients and perception, cognition, and memory.

Stancil AN, Hicks LH.
Howard University, 2400 Sixth Street N.W., Washington, DC 20059, USA. astancil@lincoln.edu
Neuropsychological tests were administered to 62 college students to assess the influence of glyconutrients on perception, cognition and memory in two randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled, counterbalanced studies. Participants were given both a glyconutritional supplement and a control substance prior to testing. In Exp. 1. a Same-Different visual discrimination task, Raven's Standard Progressive Matrices, and the Stroop test were administered. In Exp. 2, simple and complex working-memory capacity were measured. Participants receiving the supplement performed significantly more accurately on the visual discrimination task and the first session of the simple working-memory test.
PMID: 19425467 [PubMed - in process]

[zawy]

After looking on pubmed, I could not find any good info on it. My impression based on the knowledge that it appears to be just modified sugar is that it's a scam. Internet searches with the company name and "fraud", "scam", "criminal" and "lawsuit" reveals a few things.

[4eva]

After looking on pubmed, I could not find any good info on it. My impression based on the knowledge that it appears to be just modified sugar is that it's a scam. Internet searches with the company name and "fraud", "scam", "criminal" and "lawsuit" reveals a few things.

How is it modified sugar? There are natural sugars that are supposed to have health benefits. I know that some mushrooms are one source of glyonutrients. There are other food sources though. Modified substances (to create supplements) maybe but I don't think the sugars themselves are modified.

There are supplements and then there are dietary sources.

That supplement and company does not represent the entire concept of glyconutrients.

I wouldn't expect pubmed to have any studies on lesser known or relatively new supplements. I don't know if there would be many studies on certain foods and glyonutrients. I don't see how that qualfifies as a criteria for determining the science behind it as being valid or not. I think it just means there are no studies on pubmed using limited search terms. Did you search for all of the different sugars/glyconutrient names?

If it is a fraud what is the fraud exactly?

It seems to me you expressed your beliefs; and I wonder how much you know much about this subject.

[ajnast4r]

complete bullshit.


http://www.raysaheli...onutrients.html

Glyconutrients is a term coined by Mannatech, a multilevel company

We received this email from someone who read the study listed below and had a comment about it: "I was reading on your website about the use of glyconutrients and saw research update where you listed Dr. See's research at UC Irvine. I just want to inform you that Mannatech is using a study supposedly performed at UC Irvine and partially funded by NIH, which is untrue. Just thought you should update your report on " glyconutrients " because it appears on your website that this is a valid study (albeit in a test tube), but in reality it's just more Mannatech propoganda. Mannatech apparently paid Dr. See more than $100,000 to speak at sale rallies and conduct research, and his wife has been a Mannatech distributor since 1997. Thanks for the work you do! See the link below for the thorough report on this fraud: http://www.caic.org......ses study.htm
Study was debunked, Mannatech suing Dr. See:
[url="http://www.caic.org.au/commercial/Mannatech/manna-misled.htm""]http://www.caic.org.au/commercial/Mannatec...isled.htm"[/url]

[BioFactor]

complete bullshit.


http://www.raysaheli...onutrients.html

Glyconutrients is a term coined by Mannatech, a multilevel company

We received this email from someone who read the study listed below and had a comment about it: "I was reading on your website about the use of glyconutrients and saw research update where you listed Dr. See's research at UC Irvine. I just want to inform you that Mannatech is using a study supposedly performed at UC Irvine and partially funded by NIH, which is untrue. Just thought you should update your report on " glyconutrients " because it appears on your website that this is a valid study (albeit in a test tube), but in reality it's just more Mannatech propoganda. Mannatech apparently paid Dr. See more than $100,000 to speak at sale rallies and conduct research, and his wife has been a Mannatech distributor since 1997. Thanks for the work you do! See the link below for the thorough report on this fraud: http://www.caic.org......ses study.htm
Study was debunked, Mannatech suing Dr. See:
[url="http://www.caic.org.au/commercial/Mannatech/manna-misled.htm""]http://www.caic.org.au/commercial/Mannatec...isled.htm"[/url]

Yes, Glyconutrients are complete BS. I was lured by Mannatech with promises of a "reversal" of my Cystic Fibrosis symptoms. $1500 dollars worth of that utterly worthless product and my symptoms worsened. I should have researced the lawsuits beforhand, but when your desperate you are willing to try anything. Thier claims are criminal.

[ajnast4r]

Yes, Glyconutrients are complete BS. I was lured by Mannatech with promises of a "reversal" of my Cystic Fibrosis symptoms. $1500 dollars worth of that utterly worthless product and my symptoms worsened. I should have researced the lawsuits beforhand, but when your desperate you are willing to try anything. Thier claims are criminal.

have you tried fibrinolitic enzymes? a customer of mine swears this product did wonders for her son... its expensive, im sure you can put together the same ingredients for much less.

[BioFactor]

Yes, Glyconutrients are complete BS. I was lured by Mannatech with promises of a "reversal" of my Cystic Fibrosis symptoms. $1500 dollars worth of that utterly worthless product and my symptoms worsened. I should have researced the lawsuits beforhand, but when your desperate you are willing to try anything. Thier claims are criminal.

have you tried fibrinolitic enzymes? a customer of mine swears this product did wonders for her son... its expensive, im sure you can put together the same ingredients for much less.

Interesting, I already take a prescription digestive enzyme but it's lacking a couple of the ingredients listed in the product linked above. I am fortunate in that the digestive component of my genetic disorder is relatively mild. I might just add Bromelain and Papain, that would most likley be cheaper. Thanks for the info however, it's defiantly somthing to discuss with my specialist.

[ajnast4r]

Yes, Glyconutrients are complete BS. I was lured by Mannatech with promises of a "reversal" of my Cystic Fibrosis symptoms. $1500 dollars worth of that utterly worthless product and my symptoms worsened. I should have researced the lawsuits beforhand, but when your desperate you are willing to try anything. Thier claims are criminal.

have you tried fibrinolitic enzymes? a customer of mine swears this product did wonders for her son... its expensive, im sure you can put together the same ingredients for much less.

Interesting, I already take a prescription digestive enzyme but it's lacking a couple of the ingredients listed in the product linked above. I am fortunate in that the digestive component of my genetic disorder is relatively mild. I might just add Bromelain and Papain, that would most likley be cheaper. Thanks for the info however, it's defiantly somthing to discuss with my specialist.

no these are taken on an empty stomach, absorbed into the blood whole... they dissolve fibrin and other things.

[BioFactor]

Yes, Glyconutrients are complete BS. I was lured by Mannatech with promises of a "reversal" of my Cystic Fibrosis symptoms. $1500 dollars worth of that utterly worthless product and my symptoms worsened. I should have researced the lawsuits beforhand, but when your desperate you are willing to try anything. Thier claims are criminal.

have you tried fibrinolitic enzymes? a customer of mine swears this product did wonders for her son... its expensive, im sure you can put together the same ingredients for much less.

Interesting, I already take a prescription digestive enzyme but it's lacking a couple of the ingredients listed in the product linked above. I am fortunate in that the digestive component of my genetic disorder is relatively mild. I might just add Bromelain and Papain, that would most likley be cheaper. Thanks for the info however, it's defiantly somthing to discuss with my specialist.

no these are taken on an empty stomach, absorbed into the blood whole... they dissolve fibrin and other things.

Ok, yes, this does look very interesting, I just got finished thoroughly reading the information and the possibility of this product digesting scar tissue is really exciting. I am going to do a little more research and look for some clinical studies, I will post links to what I find.

[zawy]

I wouldn't expect pubmed to have any studies on lesser known or relatively new supplements. .....Did you search for all of the different sugars/glyconutrient names?
.....
If it is a fraud what is the fraud exactly?

5 reports are returned from a pubmed search on glyconutrient. Two are related to showing it may help in two conditions. They did not compare it to glucose. This is very meager information. 5 results were returned for "mannatech", 4 of them published by mannatech. If it doesn't show up in pubmed, it's not really related to medical science is it? If all there are are anecdotal reports from people charging and buying sugar for $1 a gram in a multi-level marketing scheme, I am not too inclined to trust them. This is faith-based medicine. Sure it may help something, just like putting your left shoe on before your right shoe might improve your fibromyalgia, but it's not something I am going to spend too much time considering until someone trustworthy publishes something.

Concerning mannatech being fraud or a scam I will let you do your own internet searches. For example, if it does not work for the conditions its multi-level marketers are promoting it for, then it is fraud. I believe this is their business model: they do not *directly* make any medical claims for it and therefore the FDA can't stop them anymore than they already have. They rely on the MLM scheme for advertising and legal protection. The phrase "mannatech scam" is more popular than any other two word search phrase on Google that uses glyconutrient or mannatech, including "mannatech glyconutrient". Mannatech is exactly the type of company that will sue internet posters for defamation so I do not wish to say more. I do not know more than what you can do searches for, if you take the time.

My interest in it is because my sister got heavily involved through a church friend and was subjecting her children and our mother to it.

Edited by zawy, 18 May 2009 - 11:47 AM.

[4eva]

ANY MLM company is not worth doing business with because they have I think multiple points of marking up the price.

But products sold through MLM are not automatically bogus. You can purchase glyconutrients from companies like Now and others.

There are plenty of studies on glyconutrients.

Sialic acid for influenza, memory cognition, sjorgens, cholesterol

Galactose inhibits tumor growth, calcium absorption, cataracts, multiple scerosis

Fucose for breast cancer. U-fucoidan, a complex polysaccharide found in brown seaweed, was able to kill cancer cells in vitro within 72 hours.

D-mannose is sold and has been studied for UTI and bladder infections.

There is more but I think I made my point.

An MLM company is not the same as the product it sells. Plenty of multi vitamins have been sold through MLM companies but that doesn't mean multis are bogus.

What I meant about beliefs is if you (and everyone else) just expresses that you don't believe in something or do believe in something then this is not a discussion (thread) and the forum is not a discussion forum but its just an opinion poll.

What makes a discussion is why someone believes or doesn't believe in something; and hopefully it is based on facts or something logical, at least. Opinions and only opinions don't contribute to the discussion.

[niner]

What makes a discussion is why someone believes or doesn't believe in something; and hopefully it is based on facts or something logical, at least. Opinions and only opinions don't contribute to the discussion.

zawy posted about the lack of real medical research on "glyconutrients" and about various evidence that Mannatech is a dodgy company. That's not just opinion. I appreciate that information. I also appreciate what you posted about the possibility of specific sugars being biologically important. That makes sense, and there is a whole field of glycobiology that is devoted to the concept.

[4eva]

zawy posted about the lack of real medical research on "glyconutrients" and about various evidence that Mannatech is a dodgy company. That's not just opinion.

Zawy's FIRST post is below and that is what I was referring to about opinion or beliefs:

"After looking on pubmed, I could not find any good info on it. My impression based on the knowledge that it appears to be just modified sugar is that it's a scam. Internet searches with the company name and "fraud", "scam", "criminal" and "lawsuit" reveals a few things."
END OF FIRST POST BY ZAWY

Saying there is a lack of real medical research on "glyconutrients" is just expressing opinion if you don't support it with some facts. Statements that begin with "My impression" is not providing fact. Saying I couldn't find any info is not providing facts.

And where is the various evidence how the company is dodgy? Again, saying an internet search with fraud or scam and company name return a few results isn't providing facts.

[niner]

zawy posted about the lack of real medical research on "glyconutrients" and about various evidence that Mannatech is a dodgy company. That's not just opinion.

Zawy's FIRST post is below and that is what I was referring to about opinion or beliefs:

"After looking on pubmed, I could not find any good info on it. My impression based on the knowledge that it appears to be just modified sugar is that it's a scam. Internet searches with the company name and "fraud", "scam", "criminal" and "lawsuit" reveals a few things."
END OF FIRST POST BY ZAWY

Saying there is a lack of real medical research on "glyconutrients" is just expressing opinion if you don't support it with some facts. Statements that begin with "My impression" is not providing fact. Saying I couldn't find any info is not providing facts.

And where is the various evidence how the company is dodgy? Again, saying an internet search with fraud or scam and company name return a few results isn't providing facts.

Well, sure, his first post was very brief, but I quoted the post you made after zawy's second post, which was fine. Have you read the Ray Sahelian link that a couple people posted? That points out some of the dodgy aspects. Are you associated with Mannatech in some way?

[zawy]

4eva, if there is not hardly any information in pubmed on a "glyconutrient", what are you going to accept as evidence for or against it being good for anything? My position is that if I have no studies that show it is beneficial, then I will not believe that it is beneficial. The burden of proof is on those making the claims. The burden increases if the price, difficulty implementing, or toxicity is higher. I believe your point is that I made the claim it does not do anything and I need to back that up. My burden of proof is lower because there is no proven cost to not take it. There is a proven cost of money to take it. But I'll retract my statement or opinions and just say "I don't have any evidence that it helps anything". But if no one has evidence that it helps, then there's no need to discuss or buy it.

I did find more pubmed references for "glycobiology" "glycomics" and "glycans". But it seems to be a black hole if you're trying to find a supplement concoction that will help anything.

I've been posting in another thread that changing all your fructose, sucrose, and lactose to glucose will reduce your cholesterol by 100 points in 6 weeks. So I am already arguing big time for a "glyconutrient", but it's based on solid research. I was not able to find any study that shows mannatech's aloe vera sugars are good for any health condition.

Edited by zawy, 19 May 2009 - 10:37 AM.

[youandme]

Thanks for open discussion on this subject...I have certainly learnt a lot ..including the seller mannatech.

No need to get nasty though..please keep it sweet if you can excuse the pun !

Ive noticed NOW produce their own version of Glyconutrients (a whole lot cheaper btw)...really Im yet to see from posters any references that could back this supplement as potentially effective for any purpose.

4eva you made mention of several positive uses..can you link to this information somewhere..or elaborate further.

Thanks to all

[Jacovis]

Thanks for open discussion on this subject...I have certainly learnt a lot ..including the seller mannatech.

No need to get nasty though..please keep it sweet if you can excuse the pun !

Ive noticed NOW produce their own version of Glyconutrients (a whole lot cheaper btw)...really Im yet to see from posters any references that could back this supplement as potentially effective for any purpose.

4eva you made mention of several positive uses..can you link to this information somewhere..or elaborate further.

Thanks to all

Thanks for the tip off youandme. Besides the expensive Ambrotose product, I found the following formulas online containing glyconutrients:

Now Foods, Glyconutrient Complex, 90 Capsules
Supplement Facts
Serving Size 2 Capsules
Servings Per Container 45
Amount Per Serving % DV
Glyconutrient Blend
[Proprietary Blend of: Whole Coffee Fruit (Coffea arabica), Gum Arabic (Acacia seyal), Bladderwrack (Fucus versiculosus), Whey Protein Isolate, and N-Acetyl D-Glucosamine] 600 mg *
ImmunEnhancer AG [Arabinogalactan from Larch Tree (Larix occidentalis)] 200 mg *
Aloe Vera (Whole Leaf)(Freeze-Dried) 100 mg *
Maitake Mushroom (Grifola frondosa)(Whole Body) 100 mg *
* Daily Value not established.


Now Foods, Glyconutrient Complex Powder, 4 oz (113 g)
Supplement Facts
Serving Size: two 1/4 level teaspoons (1.2 g)
Servings Per Container: 94
Amount Per Serving % DV
Glyconutrient Blend
Proprietary Blend of: Whole Coffee Fruit (Coffee arabica), Gum Arabic (Acacia seyal), Bladderwrack (Fucus versiculosus), Whey Protein Isolate and N-Acetyl D-Glucosamine] 720 mg *
ImmunEnhancer [Arabinogalactan from Larch Tree (Larix occidentalis)] 240 mg *
Aloe Vera (Whole Leaf) (Freeze-Dried) 120 mg *
Maitake Mushroom (Grifola frondosa) (Whole Body) 120 mg *
* Daily Value not established.


Now Foods, Mushroom Glyco Nutrients, 60 Vcaps
Supplement Facts
Serving Size: 2 vcaps
Servings Per Container: 30
Amount Per Serving %DV
RBAC (Rice Bran Arabinoxylan Compound) 1.0 g (1,000 mg) *
Maitake Mushroom (Grifola frondosa) 12 mg *
Reishi Mushroom (Ganoderma lucidum) 12 mg *
Shiitake Mushroom (Lentinula edodes) 12 mg *
* Daily Value not established.


New Chapter, CoffeeBerry, 30 Vcaps
Supplement Facts
Serving Size 1 Vcap
Serving per Container 30
One Vcap contains %DV
CoffeeBerry 2500 [Proprietary Blend] (Coffea arabica) (berry) whole coffee fruit concentrate 400 mg •
* Daily Value not established


Country Life, Realfood Organics, Glyconutrient Complex, 60 Veggie Caps
Supplement Facts
Serving Size: 1 capsule
Amount Per Serving % Daily Value
Proprietary Blend
providing: 375 mg *
Organic Aloe Vera (ACTIValoe)
Glyconutrient Complex (GlycoBerry 8)(as galactose, fucose, xylose, glucose, mannose, N-acetyl glucosamine, N-acetyl galactosamine, N-acetyl neuraminic acid)
* Daily Value not established.


Doctor's Best, Manapol, 160 mg, 60 Veggie Caps
Supplement Facts
Serving Size: 1 vegetable capsule
Servings Per Container: 60
Amount Per Serving % Daily Value
Manapol (mannose polysaccharides from Aloe vera) 160 mg †
† Daily Value not established.


Nutratose, Complete 8 Glyconutrients, 60 Caps
Nutratose (Below description is provided by the manufacturer of Nutratose)

Nutratose consists of all-natural ingredients that are essential in making it safe and effective. It contains no chemically generated compounds, fillers, or artificial additives, and unlike pharmaceutical drugs, does not require a prescription. In addition Nutratose has zero negative side effects.

The Eight Essential Glyconutrients in Nutratose

1. Mannose is the chief of the essential super critical nutrient sugars. It helps strengthen the excretion system and helps to defend against bacterial infections . . .
2. Galactose coexists with lactose. As with all 8 super critical nutrient sugars it is vital for intercellular communications. It promotes wound healing, decreased inflammation, and stimulates needed calcium absorption.
3. Fucose is found in healthy mother's milk and transfers immunity to newborns. It is important for proper nerve function, kidney health, reproduction systems and hydration of your skin . . .
4. Glucose enhances memory, stimulates calcium absorption and increases cellular communication.
5. Xylose is an antibacterial and antifungal. It promotes the growth of healthful flora in your intestines, therefore maximizing nutrient absorption which in turn strengthens your immune system . . .
6. N-acetylneuramic acid (sialic acid) is vital to many body fluids including, serum, cerebrospinal, saliva, amniotic, and mother's milk. It is an immune modulator that benefits many things and it is a powerful antiviral. It is 1000 times more potent than antiviral drugs used to fight influenza.
7. N-acetylgalactosamine helps in the prevention of many diseases. Evidence reveals it helps in tumor reduction and in promoting healthful heart cells. It is also key in promoting joint health and is also an anti-inflammatory.
8. N-acetylglucosamine found in the brain, thyroid, liver, small intestine, testes, epithelial cells of the endocrine and sebaceous glands, and endothelial cells of blood vessels. It is presumed that it plays a crucial role in all these tissues and organs.

Supplement Facts for
Nutratose Capsules
Serving Size: 1 Capsule
Nutrients

Proprietary Herbal Blend 650mg
Shitake Mushroom Extract, Cordyceos mushroom extract, Maitake mushroom extract, Beta Glucans chain (1,3/1,6), Gum Tragacanth Powder, Glucosamine sulfate, Arabinogalactan, Acemannons (from Aloe vera leaf juice extract 200:1) Guar Gum, Ghati tree gum, Rice starch, Xylitol


I also found the following interesting 'reviews' on iherb (obviously take these with a grain of salt):

http://www.iherb.com...Vcaps/5627?at=0
5 out of 5 stars
Benefits my Autistic Son, October 25, 2006
By Lisa Sherman from Washington
I've been researching the types of nutrients that kids with autism are often lacking, and we noticed an improvement in his behavior within 3 days of starting this. And only 1 per day. I won't be caught without it!

http://www.iherb.com...sules/7242?at=0
5 out of stars
now foods glyco complex, April 13, 2008
By joseph furr from Virginia
This seems to enhance comprehension when the does is nearly double, that is 5-6 capsules. Though I was a little hyper at this level my increased understanding of a foreign language tape was shocking.

[Jacovis]

Thanks for the tip off youandme. Besides the expensive Ambrotose product, I found the following formulas online containing glyconutrients:

...

New Chapter, CoffeeBerry, 30 Vcaps
Supplement Facts
Serving Size 1 Vcap
Serving per Container 30
One Vcap contains %DV
CoffeeBerry 2500 [Proprietary Blend] (Coffea arabica) (berry) whole coffee fruit concentrate 400 mg •
* Daily Value not established

...

I also found the following interesting 'reviews' on iherb (obviously take these with a grain of salt):

http://www.iherb.com...Vcaps/5627?at=0
5 out of 5 stars
Benefits my Autistic Son, October 25, 2006
By Lisa Sherman from Washington
I've been researching the types of nutrients that kids with autism are often lacking, and we noticed an improvement in his behavior within 3 days of starting this. And only 1 per day. I won't be caught without it!...

graatch below offers another reason to use Coffeeberry extract aside from the presence of Glyconutrients in it (the presence of Caffeic Acid in there means that it inhibits the CYP2A6 enzyme). Coffee berry is said to contain substantial amounts of mannose, galactose, fucose, xylose, and aribinose and also possibly arabinogalactan and glucose...

http://www.imminst.o...showtopic=24364
graatch (September 20, 2008):
"^^Very true.

The polyphenols and acids in coffee and yerba mate, which are also in coffeeberry extract, have had a refreshingly high amount of research done on them however, and they seem, very nice ... insulin/glucose interactions is one big point, and these substances' presence in coffee is IMHO probably the primary reason that caffeine acutely promotes insulin resistance, but coffee drinkers have a considerably lower rate of diabetes.

As for my personal experience, I bought a coffeeberry extract because caffeinated drinks, now that I am treated with dextroamphetamine, potentiate adrenaline-type effects to an uncomfortable degree, so I do not drink them; and I wanted to retain the benefits of my morning mate.

It is quite acidic however, which is also a concern for me because acidifying the urine excretes my medicines (d-amp and memantine), so it hasn't seen much use yet.

One nice thing for ME about caffeic acid (again, present in mate, coffee, and coffeeberry extract) is that it inhibits the CYP2A6 enzyme. CYP2A6 is the primary enzyme metabolizing nicotine ... essentially my nicotine lozenges should in theory go farther and last longer, and my subjective experience correlates with this. Using CYP2A6 inhibitors has actually been suggested by numerous researchers as a way to curb the rates of disease development in smokers (go away nightlight ) ... as effective nicotine dose is increased, the amount of tar/radioactive compounds that a smoker will take in in order to get their preferred amount of nicotine is lowered. "

http://www.mindandmu...p...aded&start=
graatch (October 23, 2008):
"2-4 light cups of yerba mate (like 1tsp. of leaves and stems each) daily, gotta be way under 200mg caffeine. With dextroamphetamine I can't tolerate higher doses -- these doses are calming and nice. Formerly, strongly brewed mate or coffee, probably 400-600mg.

Some of the phenolic antioxidants (particularly caffeic acid) in abundance in coffee and more abundance in mate, besides other apparent health benefits, inhibit CYP2A6 to an extent, which metabolizes nicotine to cotinine, and I notice my nicotine lozenges are much stronger, especially sucking them down (oral dosing) when I'm using the stuff. Awesome! Inhibiting this enzyme doesn't appear to be too problematic unless you're on certain pharmaceuticals such as valproic acid and warfarin (tho' watch ya coumarin sources), and in fact smokers with a gene that produces lower incidence of the enzyme were found to smoke fewer cigarettes daily (because they get higher blood nicotine levels and it lasts longer) and have a lower incidence of lung disease and slower progression of lung disease than those who didn't have the gene, and pharmaceutical CYP2A6 inhibitors have been suggested by researchers as a way to curb lung disease in smokers. Oops, where's nightlight?

Other substances that to some varying extent display CYP2A6 inhibition -- selegiline, after a certain dosing level the beta-carbolines in tobacco itself, quercetin*, ginkgo biloba, sulfur compounds from onion and garlic, rosemary and a lot of other herbs ... numerous other fruits and vegetables, etc.

* so, several substances with some affinity for hitting up monoamine oxidase, which would probably be interesting if I knew anything whatsoever about organic chemistry ..."

Edited by Visionary7903, 24 May 2009 - 12:34 PM.