41 replies to this topic

[stephen_b]

No benefit, and the mixed palm actually raised LDL levels.

Perhaps this would be better in a different thread, but there are very convincing (IMO) arguments about whether this is a bad thing, as the small, oxidized LDL seems to be what is harmful. By itself, LDL is a weak predictor of heart disease risk.

StephenB

[nameless]

No benefit, and the mixed palm actually raised LDL levels.

Perhaps this would be better in a different thread, but there are very convincing (IMO) arguments about whether this is a bad thing, as the small, oxidized LDL seems to be what is harmful. By itself, LDL is a weak predictor of heart disease risk.

StephenB

I agree. I just posted those results as I found them unusual. I don't think the raised LDL in that study probably is that significant in regard to heart disease risk.. and personally, I think cholesterol may be more of a marker than cause anyway. And it's the particle sizes that matter regardless.

Dmitri: There are some positive delta tocotrienol cholesterol studies out there somewhere I think. And the negative study I posted used a palm derivative product and rice bran derivative, but that's what supplements are made from anyway (that I know of). You get things like Tocosorb made from red palm, or annato tocotrienols, etc., so not sure what you mean by food-based, as I think they are all food-based.

Edited by nameless, 15 June 2009 - 05:29 PM.

[Dmitri]

No benefit, and the mixed palm actually raised LDL levels.

Perhaps this would be better in a different thread, but there are very convincing (IMO) arguments about whether this is a bad thing, as the small, oxidized LDL seems to be what is harmful. By itself, LDL is a weak predictor of heart disease risk.

StephenB

I agree. I just posted those results as I found them unusual. I don't think the raised LDL in that study probably is that significant in regard to heart disease risk.. and personally, I think cholesterol may be more of a marker than cause anyway. And it's the particle sizes that matter regardless.

Dmitri: There are some positive delta tocotrienol cholesterol studies out there somewhere I think. And the negative study I posted used a palm derivative product and rice bran derivative, but that's what supplements are made from anyway (that I know of). You get things like Tocosorb made from red palm, or annato tocotrienols, etc., so not sure what you mean by food-based, as I think they are all food-based.

I see, I forgot that Vitamin E is one of the few that is mainly used in natural forms instead of synthetic ones.

[Dmitri]

Yes, well I suspect the people that would not take tocotrienols for that reason are probably not on the resveratrol wagon either.

I'm a little late with a response but I hadn't posted for some time on the forums. Anyway, I don't take RSV because of all the case studies that have recently come up about RSV causing joint pain.

[dachshund]

I have found the BAC brand tocotrienol beadlets to be a reasonable value and have a good balance & meaningful concentration of the tocotrienol types. I ususally purchase enough 25 g bottles to bridge the time between BAC's periodic 10% discount promotions so you can purchase these for about $15/bottle, of course BAC always charges shipping of $5. I take two 1/8 teaspoon portions daily and the 25 g size BAC product lasts about 20 days. I've also looked at TOCO-8 from Nutraplanet as a good value too, but have not tried it.

[mike250]

so shall I drop Famil E from my list of supplements in light of the evidence.

[yoyo]

that chart listed barley and oats as great sources too. oat bran would probably be a very good source even on a per calorie basis.

[tunt01]

familE still has a lot of gamma tocopherol, which seems rly useful imo.

[mbenson]

can anyone find a list with the Tocotrienol content of foods?

Here is a nice little chart:

http://www.tocotrien...ex/sources.html
....
Edit: I notice the above chart leaves out Annato. I expect maybe because it does contain more tocotrienols than Palm? That particular site is Palm-oriented, due to it being from Carotech, so expect some bias.

If you compare the types of tocotrienol form present in palm and annatto, you will notice that palm has all 4 forms of the tocotrienol (alpha-, beta-, gamma- and delta-) but annatto only has delta.
Published research studies indicate that different form of tocotrienol has its own superior function in different disease conditions, thus I think it makes sense to take all four forms instead of just one.

[Jay]

I thought this study looked interesting. It's a novel formulation of intravenous tocotrienols that seems to shrink tumor (skin cancer, brain cancer, and ovarian cancer) growth in mice without harming healthy cells.

Edited by Jay, 23 December 2009 - 07:14 PM.

[2tender]

Taking Toco-8 powder and Mito-gold softgel, overall approx. 300 mgs daily. Cant ignore all the positive research.

[rwac]

Free radical recycling and intramembrane mobility in the antioxidant properties of alpha-tocopherol and alpha-tocotrienol.

Serbinova E, Kagan V, Han D, Packer L.

Department of Molecular and Cell Biology, University of California, Berkeley 94720.

d-Alpha-tocopherol (2R,4'R,8'R-Alpha-tocopherol) and d-alpha-tocotrienol are two vitamin E constituents having the same aromatic chromanol "head" but differing in their hydrocarbon "tail": tocopherol with a saturated and toctrienol with an unsaturated isoprenoid chain. d-Alpha-tocopherol has the highest vitamin E activity, while d-alpha-tocotrienol manifests only about 30% of this activity. Since vitamin E is considered to be physiologically the most important lipid-soluble chain-breaking antioxidant of membranes, we studied alpha-tocotrienol as compared to alpha-tocopherol under conditions which are important for their antioxidant function. d-Alpha-tocotrienol possesses 40-60 times higher antioxidant activity against (Fe2+ + ascorbate)- and (Fe2+ + NADPH)-induced lipid peroxidation in rat liver microsomal membranes and 6.5 times better protection of cytochrome P-450 against oxidative damage than d-alpha-tocopherol. To clarify the mechanisms responsible for the much higher antioxidant potency of d-alpha-tocotrienol compared to d-alpha-tocopherol, ESR studies were performed of recycling efficiency of the chromanols from their chromanoxyl radicals. 1H-NMR measurements of lipid molecular mobility in liposomes containing chromanols, and fluorescence measurements which reveal the uniformity of distribution (clusterizations) of chromanols in the lipid bilayer. From the results, we concluded that this higher antioxidant potency of d-alpha-tocotrienol is due to the combined effects of three properties exhibited by d-alpha-tocotrienol as compared to d-alpha-tocopherol: (i) its higher recycling efficiency from chromanoxyl radicals, (ii) its more uniform distribution in membrane bilayer, and (iii) its stronger disordering of membrane lipids which makes interaction of chromanols with lipid radicals more efficient. The data presented show that there is a considerable discrepancy between the relative in vitro antioxidant activity of d-alpha-tocopherol and d-alpha-tocotrienol with the conventional bioassays of their vitamin activity.

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/1649783

Structural and dynamic membrane properties of alpha-tocopherol and alpha-tocotrienol: implication to the molecular mechanism of their antioxidant potency.

Suzuki YJ, Tsuchiya M, Wassall SR, Choo YM, Govil G, Kagan VE, Packer L.

Department of Molecular and Cell Biology, University of California, Berkeley 94720.

d-alpha-Tocopherol and d-alpha-tocotrienol are two vitamin E constituents having the same aromatic chromanol "head" but different hydrocarbon "tails". alpha-Tocotrienol has been shown to be more potent in protecting against free radical-induced oxidative stress than alpha-tocopherol. Simple models of phospholipid membrane systems were used to investigate the mechanism of the antioxidant potency of alpha-tocotrienol in terms of its effects on membrane order and reorientation dynamics. Chemiluminescence and fluorescence measurements demonstrated that alpha-tocotrienol exhibits significantly greater peroxyl radical scavenging potency than alpha-tocopherol in phosphatidylcholine liposomes, whereas both antioxidants have identical activity in hexane. This suggests that the antioxidant potency of alpha-tocotrienol requires the membrane environment. When alpha-tocopherol and alpha-tocotrienol were examined for their effects on phospholipid molecular order using conventional ESR spin labeling with 5- and 16-position-labeled doxylstearic acid, although both vitamin E constituents disordered the gel phase and stabilized the liquid-crystalline phase, no differences were observed between the effects of the two compounds. A slightly greater increase (19% vs 15%) in ordering of the liquid-crystalline state due to alpha-tocopherol, however, was discerned in noninvasive 2H NMR experiments. The difference is most noticeable near C10-C13 positions of the phospholipid chain, possibly suggesting alpha-tocotrienol is located closer to the membrane surface. Saturation-transfer ESR, furthermore, revealed that on the time scale tau c = 10(-7)-10(-3) s the rates of rotation about the long molecular axis and of the wobbling motion of the axis are modified to differing extents by the two forms of the vitamin E.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS)

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/8399214



This is the one that worries me. I wonder if tocotrienols have a similar effect on CoQ10 levels ....

Tocotrienols regulate cholesterol production in mammalian cells by post-transcriptional suppression of 3-hydroxy-3-methylglutaryl-coenzyme A reductase.

Parker RA, Pearce BC, Clark RW, Gordon DA, Wright JJ.

Department of Metabolic Diseases, Bristol-Myers Squibb Pharmaceutical Research Institute, Princeton, New Jersey 08543.

Tocotrienols are natural farnesylated analogues of tocopherols which decrease hepatic cholesterol production and reduce plasma cholesterol levels in animals. For several cultured cell types, incubation with gamma-tocotrienol inhibited the rate of [14C]acetate but not [3H] mevalonate incorporation into cholesterol in a concentration- and time-dependent manner, with 50% inhibition at approximately 2 microM and maximum approximately 80% inhibition observed within 6 h in HepG2 cells. 3-Hydroxy-3-methylglutaryl-coenzyme A (HMG-CoA) reductase total activity and protein levels assayed by Western blot were reduced concomitantly with the decrease in cholesterol synthesis. In HepG2 cells, gamma-tocotrienol suppressed reductase despite strong blockade by inhibitors at several steps in the pathway, suggesting that isoprenoid flux is not required for the regulatory effect. HMG-CoA reductase protein synthesis rate was moderately diminished (57% of control), while the degradation rate was increased 2.4-fold versus control (t1/2 declined from 3.73 to 1.59 h) as judged by [35S]methionine pulse-chase/immunoprecipitation analysis of HepG2 cells treated with 10 microM gamma-tocotrienol. Under these conditions, the decrease in reductase protein levels greatly exceeded the minor decrease in mRNA (23 versus 76% of control, respectively), and the low density lipoprotein receptor protein was augmented. In contrast, 25-hydroxycholesterol strongly cosuppressed HMG-CoA reductase protein and mRNA levels and the low density lipoprotein receptor protein. Thus, tocotrienols influence the mevalonate pathway in mammalian cells by post-transcriptional suppression of HMG-CoA reductase, and appear to specifically modulate the intracellular mechanism for controlled degradation of the reductase protein, an activity that mirrors the actions of the putative non-sterol isoprenoid regulators derived from mevalonate.

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/8388388

Here's an interesting table listing a lot of studies on tocotrienols.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....16830/table/T1/

article:
http://www.ncbi.nlm....mid/NIHMS16830/

Edited by rwac, 06 January 2010 - 08:08 AM.