27 replies to this topic

[bacopa]

Just a quick update on my life since what I now realize, and have for quite some time, was a psychotic break in early 2005. Basically in 05 in a short time of about a week I went from normal functioning with above average cognition and good mood to having terrible cognitive problems and substantial negative effects such as anhedonia, feeling crappy, low mood, and feeling just otherwise, "not all there."

Initially I couldn't figure out what was causing my terrible problems and specualted from stupidly reading and believing crap I read online on people who were allegedly hurt by directed energy microwaves that I was also a victim. I had earlier had terrible panic attacks that certainly didn't feel like panic attacks and instead felt like someone or something was torturing me in some way. Now that's what I sort of believed back than, but for the last two years I've become completely rational and now know that I had become the victim of general psychosis (not otherwise specified.)

So remarkably I went from a vegetative zombie like state where I couldn't follow simple programming on television to being able to read even semi-complex books. So even though I initially dropped about 20 IQ points, as was shown by the IQ test that I took and compared to an older one, now I believe I've gained back maybe 8 to 10. This means I have some of my old intellect back but am still suffering from substantial to severe memory loss.

After initially having the delusional belief that the government or some rouge criminal group was torturing me I than worried terribly that I had early onset Alzheimer's as was evidenced from my IQ drop and extreme memory loss. So it comes as a great relief to know it was only a severe psychotic episode that ravaged me in this fashion. Studies and research has shown that a severe psychosis can ravage the brain, especially white matter and some people can lose up to 10% of their tissue.

So my last year has been good and terrible with some days good enough for me to work, and I have sporadically worked odd jobs, and many other days it has been difficult to even get out of bed and function or do anything. But my psychiatrist, who is excellent, told me that a severe enough psychotic episode can leave one with negative symptoms like I am experiencing. Luckily it didn't last long enough for it to be schizophrenia, but this possibility is still being explored. My psychiatrist works at the Freedom Trail Clinic one of the best for treating pychosis and schizophrenia. They are located in Mass General Hospital right near where I live in Boston.

So I'm told that most people even with schizophrenia get remarkably better with time and that in my case I could heal even faster since I probably don't have schizophrenia. However I've been very scared during this time and due to my severe negative symptoms I even stupidly picked up smoking for about 3 1/2 years. Now I'm so against smoking and I know of it's extreme dangers. But it felt almost impossible to not smoke during this period only because it was the only thing that gave me a temporary lift from utter despair. Luckily I quit and will NEVER smoke again. So now I chew nicorette gum and when I don't have the gum use patches.

So that brings us up to date. I now have a girl friend who is very interested in transhumanism; especially SENS theory and we are both working on advocacy and are in a campaign where we are now actively writing to legislatures to try to get funding for life extension. I've become extremely appreciative of life and the finite nature of it. And am really trying to do my part to promote life extension in any way that I possibly can.

[Shannon Vyff]

Great to hear you are doing better! Your girlfriend will have fun here then Thanks for the update, hope you'll be able to contribute here some more--take care!

[bacopa]

Thanks Shannon! For a long time I felt isolated and extremely vulnerable to people thinking I was crazy especially in light of my post where I told everyone here that I was basically delusional and believed that "machines", as I called them, were torturing me. I felt people at imminst now hate me and think of me as a silly creature who fell into the realm of magical thinking. I stopped posting, I used to post tons, because I simply didn't have the cognitive capacities to write as well as I once did. This greatly hurt me and made me feel sooo insecure and stupid.

I mean imminst is for progressive free thinkers who want to change the world, and not for stupid delusional idiots who believe in ridiculous memes. So now posts like yours, and I have always liked and respected you Shannon, have given me the impetus to start posting again. And like I said I'm currently starting to write to legislatures to try to get the word out on life extension and the promise it could have for all of us.

When this first started out I was so bad cognitively that I couldn't follow many of the posts or at least not remember what I just read! This got substantially better and now is iteratively slowly progressing after a year or so of plataeuing for some time. I particularly want very much to help get the word out about imminst and life extension and I am now a fan of the David Pierce school of thought on abolitionism. I believe life extension should come first as that is top priority because obviously if we are dead there is nothing we can do to become happier and smarter!

I continue to deal with the situational depression, along with my psychosis induced depression, of realizing I'm probably going to die one day if we don't get things like SENS the proper funding of a billion or so dollars it needs to work. I also question if this is the best means of achieving radical life extension. But I would be happy with ten years of extension. For that might buy the necessary time to live much much longer. Yes Lauren, my girlfriend, is brilliant with a vocab that I have never seen in any other human and when she continues to get better from her depression I believe she will contribute to imminst and it's mission.

And yes I do feel much smarter than when I started so this is great news!

[bacopa]

I'm also involved in several clinical trials for negative symptoms experienced from psychosis. In particular I'm doing a double blind placebo trial for folate. As in all trials I'll either get the folate or the placebo. I've experimented with folate supplementation before and didn't find it helped to any obvious extent. But I'll try anything. The other trial I'm now involved in is the Brain Fitness Program as advertised on WGBH. Basically I'm going to drive into Boston 5 times a week and use the computer based program. The hope is that even with my substantial cognitive impairment that I will make some progress over time. Unfortunately there are no recommended cognitive enhancers as of yet for the degeneration of severe psychosis. However I want to experiment with Piracatem and I already tried Galantamine and Alpha CP Choline which didn't seem to do much. I also tried brain supplements which contained everything from Vinpocetine, Huperzine A, Choline and many many others. I researched and found what I thought to be the best supplement on the market. I believe it's called Neuroenzyme. So I'm actively trying everything. Next I want to try Modafinil but don't think my insurance will allow it. And since I haven't been accumulating very much money at all in the past 4 years I don't know if I can afford to have my dad pay for a better insurance. So maybe I can get the Modafinil from a study such as a sleep study that I'm going to undertake. I also read as much as I have the energy for and exercise almost everyday.

[bacopa]

sorry to keep posting...bit bored and antsy here. But given that anhedonia and lack of energy are my big problems, (this should not be confused with excessive tiredness), I was wondering if anyone could recommend an energy supplement or even better a good mood supplement/s that could make it easier for me to function particularly on really blah days when I just can't do anything. I don't want to sound needy or pathetic though it's just that I've suffered greatly for years now; and I certainly am not asking for your pity either.

[bacopa]

Now that I've beaten a dead horse on my condition, I was wondering if any of you could recommend a good cognitive enhancer? Like I said I tried Galantamine plus Alpha CP Choline and that gave me lucid dreams but not much else. I want to experiment with Piracatem and perhaps Modafinil. What about Deprynl or Hydergine? Also what about ALCAR or something else? I've tried, what I think was, the best normal brain supplement on the market called neuroenzyme. It has vinpocetine and Huperzine A plus about 40 plus more ingredients. But guess what? It did nothing for me! I'm sick of the poor long term and working memory and not being able to learn things nearly as fast as I once did. Can anyone help me?

[nootrope]

It sounds to me as if you are worrying about this too much. I'm diagnosed bipolar and have had similar severe episodes. However, I think I more or less have retained my regular cognitive powers (it's hard to tell, of course)... Rest and the body's natural restorative powers help. Also, good diet and exercise.

As for supplements, I think those that help one improve slowly and steadily are the best for someone recovering from big mood and thinking problems. I like supplements that affect not just neurotransmitters, but stress hormones (cortisol), and the health of cell membranes. I'm also trying folic acid (and inositol, also related to B vitamins), and have had lots of success with adaptogens, including ashwangahda and bacopa (which are ingredients in the neurozyme product you were interested in but that didn't do much for you, you said). Sometimes these things take a month or so to show effects. I think ALCAR is a great supplement. I think the best strategy is trial and error, paying attention to the most scientific studies and the folk traditions that don't seem to far out, and also to one's own responses.

Now that I've beaten a dead horse on my condition, I was wondering if any of you could recommend a good cognitive enhancer? Like I said I tried Galantamine plus Alpha CP Choline and that gave me lucid dreams but not much else. I want to experiment with Piracatem and perhaps Modafinil. What about Deprynl or Hydergine? Also what about ALCAR or something else? I've tried, what I think was, the best normal brain supplement on the market called neuroenzyme. It has vinpocetine and Huperzine A plus about 40 plus more ingredients. But guess what? It did nothing for me! I'm sick of the poor long term and working memory and not being able to learn things nearly as fast as I once did. Can anyone help me?

[bacopa]

It sounds to me as if you are worrying about this too much. I'm diagnosed bipolar and have had similar severe episodes. However, I think I more or less have retained my regular cognitive powers (it's hard to tell, of course)... Rest and the body's natural restorative powers help. Also, good diet and exercise.

As for supplements, I think those that help one improve slowly and steadily are the best for someone recovering from big mood and thinking problems. I like supplements that affect not just neurotransmitters, but stress hormones (cortisol), and the health of cell membranes. I'm also trying folic acid (and inositol, also related to B vitamins), and have had lots of success with adaptogens, including ashwangahda and bacopa (which are ingredients in the neurozyme product you were interested in but that didn't do much for you, you said). Sometimes these things take a month or so to show effects. I think ALCAR is a great supplement. I think the best strategy is trial and error, paying attention to the most scientific studies and the folk traditions that don't seem to far out, and also to one's own responses.

Well I do worry tons about it because the suffering I've endured was and still is so intense that it's really hard to describe. And I was merely trying to get across the last 4 years of my life after not posting anything about this for quite some time. So I think I was justified in showing the extent of my suffering. That being said, I'm also taking all the B vitamins, I have an energy forumla which has a bunch of ingredients too numerous to go into. And I tried folic acid, like I said. I have thought about trying inositol and have heard great things about that one. I mean it's supposed to be good for OCD, which I also have. Perhaps some of my worried writing stems from my obsessive mind!

Anywho thanks for the help! And it's great that you are cognitively in tact. Yes I'm getting much better. Bipolar can be tough especially when it's accompanied by psychosis and severe mood swings.

[bacopa]

just wanted to bump the thread up to see if anyone else wanted to reply.

[Mind]

I am happy to hear you are doing better. Thanks for explaining your situation. Sure, some people might have viewed your situation negatively, when you were posting about machines and mind control, but most realized you were suffering and wanted to help out. The new information you have provided will help to put everything in context. I hope to see you around the forums more often. Welcome back!

[Imminst = pro murder (omega)]

Try reading Stohl's book "The Omega-3 Connection."

[bacopa]

I am happy to hear you are doing better. Thanks for explaining your situation. Sure, some people might have viewed your situation negatively, when you were posting about machines and mind control, but most realized you were suffering and wanted to help out. The new information you have provided will help to put everything in context. I hope to see you around the forums more often. Welcome back!

Thanks Mind! I wanted to put everything in context and show people that I wasn't some nut job. I was only delusional for a few months, and now, am very much grounded in reality again. But as we all know, imminst sole mission is to eradicate death or at least prolong life, so I don't want to spend my time talking only about myself, and instead I want to continue to make a difference. I'm now working with Broken Portal in lobbying congress, and I just got in touch with C.E.L. that lobbying group out of D.C. My lofty goal is to get my brain back enough that I can go back to school to get a bio chem degree and help with the research for extreme life extension; particularly on SENS projects. However currently, and very sadly, I lack the memory and still have some substantial learning deficits. I need desperately to be much smarter in order to tackle things like stem cell research and biochemistry. But I cannot blame anyone except my genetics for my downfall. So I have to fight on. I beat my severe OCD as a younger person and now I'm determined to beat the cognitive deficit and extreme low energy problems. So I will continue to help out with advocacy and hopefully any other means of promoting our cause. I wish to be a doer not some person trying to get sympathy.

[missminni]

Hi d,
I just noticed this thread, and although this article I am referring you to is about addictions I think it might have some interesting information for you to consider for mental well being. OCD is like an addiction.
It's about the four brain chemicals - neurotransmitters - that create our moods.
1. dopamine/norepinephrine, our natural energizer and mental focuser
2. GABA (gamma amino butyric acid), our natural sedative
3. endorphin, our natural painkiller
4. serotonin, our natural mood stabilizer and sleep promoter
Perhaps you can apply some of the information to your situation.

Many times food and diet are at the root of our dis-eases. I just suffered for a year and a half with what was diagnosed as "auto-immune eczema". I had all sorts of allergy tests etc and they could find nothing. I was prescribed prednisone and cortisone creams that would work
for a short period of time and then become ineffective. It was only about a month ago through sheer epiphany that I realized I was gluten intolerant and that I had a condition called dermatitis herpetiformis, a form of celiac disease that manifests as an eczema type dermatitis.
Since I eliminated gluten from my diet my skin is clearing up. I also eliminated refined sugar and I've noticed that I no longer have
my old mood swings. Food and nutrition are crucial to your mental state. Maybe you should consider it in your recovery program.
Glad you are on the mend and don't worry so much. Your mental acuity will return. Be patient, it takes time.
Don't be so hard on yourself.

[bacopa]

well Missmini...I'm taking lexapro at 20 mg for mood and anxiety, but it's only helping with anxiety a bit. The Risperdal I'm taking is to prevent another psychosis; just in case, although I don't think I have schizophrenia, and if I did it would be schizoaffective which is a combo of schizophrenia and mood problems.

I eat fatty fish for protein like sushi. Especially raw salmon, tuna, and whitefish. I eat lots of fruits for fiber and antioxidants including blueberries, apples, grapefruits etc. And I try to avoid dairy but have some fat free milk occasionally. What else. I eat whole grain carbs like brown rice, and cereal. I eat beans mostly baked but sometimes chick peas for its fiber and something else...I forget.

I drink pomegrante juice for it's antioxidant properties which supposedly prevents lung cancer and other cancers. I eat cruciferous veggies like raw cabbage, lightly steamed broccoli, and kale usually raw.

So I eat healthy if there is anything I'm forgetting please tell me.

In terms of supplements I take fish oil usually 3000 mg? not sure the unit. I take 2000 IU of vit D. 1000 IU of C, and was taking Galantamine and Alpha CP choline but it didn't seem to do anything. I was taking neuroenzyme a brain supplement with loads of ingredients, and that's about it for now.

I also try to exercise most days, when I have the energy. I do an hour or more of cardio and situps and pushups. I just joined a gym and I will soon start a weight regime.

Edited by dfowler, 04 June 2009 - 06:32 AM.

[tham]

Perhaps you could try orthomolecular psychiatry.

One of the best places over there is probably Carl Pffiefer's
center :

http://www.hriptc.or...achSchedule.php


Apart from that, you could ask for referral to one in
your area from :

Richard Kunin's website :

http://www.orthomed.org/

http://www.orthomolecular.org/


I corresponded with Richard Kunin once in 1986.
I still keep his book, "Mega Nutrition", which, together
to Leslie Kenton's "Ageless Ageing", were what introduced
me to life extension.


It is also sad to learn that Abram Hoffer has just passed away.
He was very kind to fax me his cancer nutrition protocol plus
vitamin C intravenous info in 1996, which is posted in another
thread.

http://www.orthomed....bit/hoffer.html



http://www.nmrc.ca/p...ICLES_BOOKS.php

[Imminst = pro murder (omega)]

I eat fatty fish for protein like sushi. Especially raw salmon, tuna, and whitefish. I eat lots of fruits for fiber and antioxidants including blueberries, apples, grapefruits etc. And I try to avoid dairy but have some fat free milk occasionally. What else. I eat whole grain carbs like brown rice, and cereal. I eat beans mostly baked but sometimes chick peas for its fiber and something else...I forget.

I drink pomegrante juice for it's antioxidant properties which supposedly prevents lung cancer and other cancers. I eat cruciferous veggies like raw cabbage, lightly steamed broccoli, and kale usually raw.

So I eat healthy if there is anything I'm forgetting please tell me.

In terms of supplements I take fish oil usually 3000 mg? not sure the unit. I take 2000 IU of vit D. 1000 IU of C, and was taking Galantamine and Alpha CP choline but it didn't seem to do anything. I was taking neuroenzyme a brain supplement with loads of ingredients, and that's about it for now.

I also try to exercise most days, when I have the energy. I do an hour or more of cardio and situps and pushups. I just joined a gym and I will soon start a weight regime.

I like fish but try to limit consumption to just one meal a week. Most fish stocks have pollutants now, probably more in the fatty fish. I take 12,000 mg. of fish oil per day, a brand that has more EPA than DHA so I get the 4 grams of EPA that Stohl found effective. It is molecularly distilled so should be relatively pollutant free. I've been doing the fish oil for more than 2 years now and it really makes a big difference as far as keeping my depression at bay. Stopped taking if for a few days occasionally and really noticed the difference. I'm taking 200 mg. of Niacinamide, and a time release B-100 each day which if I remember correctly appears proven as aiding mental health.

As far as exercise goes an autonomic exercise, about 12 minutes a day, does wonders for the psyche. It's called a jogger's high or positive addiction (I believe those descriptions are in book titles on the subject) and my brain function improves tremendously with it. I used to jog a lot but my dad who did the same ended up getting surgery on his feet and I seem to have the same structure feet. I use either a rowing machine or another machine we have that allows me to not have to watch what I'm doing. That and a few curls everyday while hanging upside down on my inversion table give me a flat stomach and more muscle mass than many without having to invest a lot of time.

[bacopa]

I eat fatty fish for protein like sushi. Especially raw salmon, tuna, and whitefish. I eat lots of fruits for fiber and antioxidants including blueberries, apples, grapefruits etc. And I try to avoid dairy but have some fat free milk occasionally. What else. I eat whole grain carbs like brown rice, and cereal. I eat beans mostly baked but sometimes chick peas for its fiber and something else...I forget.

I drink pomegrante juice for it's antioxidant properties which supposedly prevents lung cancer and other cancers. I eat cruciferous veggies like raw cabbage, lightly steamed broccoli, and kale usually raw.

So I eat healthy if there is anything I'm forgetting please tell me.

In terms of supplements I take fish oil usually 3000 mg? not sure the unit. I take 2000 IU of vit D. 1000 IU of C, and was taking Galantamine and Alpha CP choline but it didn't seem to do anything. I was taking neuroenzyme a brain supplement with loads of ingredients, and that's about it for now.

I also try to exercise most days, when I have the energy. I do an hour or more of cardio and situps and pushups. I just joined a gym and I will soon start a weight regime.

I like fish but try to limit consumption to just one meal a week. Most fish stocks have pollutants now, probably more in the fatty fish. I take 12,000 mg. of fish oil per day, a brand that has more EPA than DHA so I get the 4 grams of EPA that Stohl found effective. It is molecularly distilled so should be relatively pollutant free. I've been doing the fish oil for more than 2 years now and it really makes a big difference as far as keeping my depression at bay. Stopped taking if for a few days occasionally and really noticed the difference. I'm taking 200 mg. of Niacinamide, and a time release B-100 each day which if I remember correctly appears proven as aiding mental health.

As far as exercise goes an autonomic exercise, about 12 minutes a day, does wonders for the psyche. It's called a jogger's high or positive addiction (I believe those descriptions are in book titles on the subject) and my brain function improves tremendously with it. I used to jog a lot but my dad who did the same ended up getting surgery on his feet and I seem to have the same structure feet. I use either a rowing machine or another machine we have that allows me to not have to watch what I'm doing. That and a few curls everyday while hanging upside down on my inversion table give me a flat stomach and more muscle mass than many without having to invest a lot of time.

curls what is that is that like crunches? Could you describe this exercise in greater detail? And in order to take 12,000 mg of fish oil how many pills is that 12? That seems like alot. I was just taking 3 1000 mg capsules.

[Imminst = pro murder (omega)]

curls what is that is that like crunches? Could you describe this exercise in greater detail? And in order to take 12,000 mg of fish oil how many pills is that 12? That seems like alot. I was just taking 3 1000 mg capsules.

Maybe i don't use the right word. I just attempt to touch my toes over and over while hanging upside down. I have a theory that building my back and abdominal muscles while stretching my spine will give me the support to avoid another bout with sciatica. Seems to be working, I was almost pain free all day yesterday despite moving some heavy all wood big file cabinets, free via Craigslist.

I take 10 caps of the NSI Mega EPA currently (if the specs. are right that comes to 3.8 grams of EPA fatty acid) though when that runs out I plan to change to Carlsons liquid fish oil, 3 teaspoons a day. I've been informed on this forum that NSI products don't seek or have a major quality assurance certification.

Your local library should have Dr. Andrew Stohl's book "Omega-3 Conection" http://www.amazon.co...m/dp/0684871386

Apparently a large portion of the book is available on Google books: http://books.google....snum=4#PPA15,M1 . Scratch that, there's only up into chapter 3 with some missing pages. Appears details on the clinical trials are missing, some of the most important parts of the book, IMO.

Dr. Stohl may still be the head of a major university psychology dept. as well as a major hospital's psychology dept. on the US East coast.

Edited by Omega, 04 June 2009 - 05:55 PM.

[bacopa]

curls what is that is that like crunches? Could you describe this exercise in greater detail? And in order to take 12,000 mg of fish oil how many pills is that 12? That seems like alot. I was just taking 3 1000 mg capsules.

Maybe i don't use the right word. I just attempt to touch my toes over and over while hanging upside down. I have a theory that building my back and abdominal muscles while stretching my spine will give me the support to avoid another bout with sciatica. Seems to be working, I was almost pain free all day yesterday despite moving some heavy all wood big file cabinets, free via Craigslist.

I take 10 caps of the NSI Mega EPA currently (if the specs. are right that comes to 3.8 grams of EPA fatty acid) though when that runs out I plan to change to Carlsons liquid fish oil, 3 teaspoons a day. I've been informed on this forum that NSI products don't seek or have a major quality assurance certification.

Your local library should have Dr. Andrew Stohl's book "Omega-3 Conection" http://www.amazon.co...m/dp/0684871386

Apparently a large portion of the book is available on Google books: http://books.google....snum=4#PPA15,M1

Dr. Stohl may still be the head of a major university psychology dept. as well as a major hospital's psychology dept. on the US East coast.

Ok fair enough. I try to do 100 crunches and 50 situps but I've just started 3 weeks ago and don't seem much results as of yet. I'll check that book out. Maybe I don't see the difference between regular fish oil and EPA. But I plan on getting some more today. I think I want the kind with alot of Omega 3 if that makes sense. I'll look for Carlsons, that looks good. thanks!

[Imminst = pro murder (omega)]

Fish oil is made up of various fatty acids, two of which appear valuable for supplementing, EPA and DHA. Something like 80% of brain cell membranes contain EPA if they can get it and its source is solely from diet.

[Lauren]

Devon,

I just wanted to tell you how incredibly proud I am to have you in my life. You are probably the sweetest person I have ever met. And you undermine your brilliance incredibly. You are every bit as brilliant as I am, if not moreso considering what your mind has endured, and how quickly you have rebounded from that. Over the last couple of weeks, and even within the last several days or so, I have noticed that your cognitive capacities have increased almost exponentially. The depth and scope of your thoughts have become increasingly more complex. There is also a kind of exuberance about you that never used to be there. You tend to smile more, and you tend to feel more elated and jubilant. I just love to see you happy like this. I think you have battled the final throes of your condition, and you have come out shining. You are so beautiful. I have a strong premonition that you have slain the figurative dragon that was your condition, and that it never will. I am so proud of you, Devie.........I love you so much

Love for all future times and purposes,

Lauren

Thanks Shannon! For a long time I felt isolated and extremely vulnerable to people thinking I was crazy especially in light of my post where I told everyone here that I was basically delusional and believed that "machines", as I called them, were torturing me. I felt people at imminst now hate me and think of me as a silly creature who fell into the realm of magical thinking. I stopped posting, I used to post tons, because I simply didn't have the cognitive capacities to write as well as I once did. This greatly hurt me and made me feel sooo insecure and stupid.

I mean imminst is for progressive free thinkers who want to change the world, and not for stupid delusional idiots who believe in ridiculous memes. So now posts like yours, and I have always liked and respected you Shannon, have given me the impetus to start posting again. And like I said I'm currently starting to write to legislatures to try to get the word out on life extension and the promise it could have for all of us.

When this first started out I was so bad cognitively that I couldn't follow many of the posts or at least not remember what I just read! This got substantially better and now is iteratively slowly progressing after a year or so of plataeuing for some time. I particularly want very much to help get the word out about imminst and life extension and I am now a fan of the David Pierce school of thought on abolitionism. I believe life extension should come first as that is top priority because obviously if we are dead there is nothing we can do to become happier and smarter!

I continue to deal with the situational depression, along with my psychosis induced depression, of realizing I'm probably going to die one day if we don't get things like SENS the proper funding of a billion or so dollars it needs to work. I also question if this is the best means of achieving radical life extension. But I would be happy with ten years of extension. For that might buy the necessary time to live much much longer. Yes Lauren, my girlfriend, is brilliant with a vocab that I have never seen in any other human and when she continues to get better from her depression I believe she will contribute to imminst and it's mission.

And yes I do feel much smarter than when I started so this is great news!

[bacopa]

Thanks Lauren! Although I have made substantial progress from the time I was a living zombie, I still have a long way to go. It takes me many many more times the most people take to soak in information and my memory is still very poor. I'm trying now to get involved in lobby efforts and some special projects. I consistently doubt myself all the time, but I'm determined to continue to make a good recovery. If you have the time Lauren go to the projects section in the forums section. Here is the link....http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php?showforum=295. Once you're there go to the LEEEP projects section or any other project you think you could be a help with. Here is the link to the internetworking teams project. http://imminst.org/w...index.php/LEEEP. Go to bullet number 39 for a description of this project. This is the first and most popular project so far. The other one is the 72 list which is trying to generate discussion for improvements on spreading the imminst mission and meme. Here is a description of the project here, http://www.imminst.o...showtopic=26664

Lauren I know you have some time on your hands now, and I know you are passionate about radical life extension as well as other H+ ideas like brain augmentation through biotech and nanotech. So I think you would be great at this. The LEEEP projects director is named Brokenportal.

[Lauren]

Ummm......you're welcome I'm afraid you sound a bit too laconic in depersonalizing this whole response, but what have you.......I would far prefer to have such an exchange on a human level, really. I am rather taken aback by this

Thanks Lauren! Although I have made substantial progress from the time I was a living zombie, I still have a long way to go. It takes me many many more times the most people take to soak in information and my memory is still very poor. I'm trying now to get involved in lobby efforts and some special projects. I consistently doubt myself all the time, but I'm determined to continue to make a good recovery. If you have the time Lauren go to the projects section in the forums section. Here is the link....http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php?showforum=295. Once you're there go to the LEEEP projects section or any other project you think you could be a help with. Here is the link to the internetworking teams project. http://imminst.org/w...index.php/LEEEP. Go to bullet number 39 for a description of this project. This is the first and most popular project so far. The other one is the 72 list which is trying to generate discussion for improvements on spreading the imminst mission and meme. Here is a description of the project here, http://www.imminst.o...showtopic=26664

Lauren I know you have some time on your hands now, and I know you are passionate about radical life extension as well as other H+ ideas like brain augmentation through biotech and nanotech. So I think you would be great at this. The LEEEP projects director is named Brokenportal.

[Lauren]

Do not misinterpret this, but I do take substantial objection to the ideas of life extension on the basis of one distinct logical fallacy: the fact that death and decay is an eventuality. I know it feels as though I am sounding a dirge by saying this, but one thing which proponents of SENS theory need to acknowledge is the fact that the process of decadence is a pervasive force which affects all systems, biotic and mechanical. This is why if we were to hypothetically develop the technologies to create a cybernetic race of machines, no physical law in the universe could prevent the decay process from shortening the 'lifespan' of those machines. I suppose that we might be able to create self-replicating machines that would repair themselves, but even this assumes that we could somehow defeat the process of decay and somehow achieve a constant system of perfection that never breaks down. And unfortunately, malfunction and dysfuntion are essential properties of physical systems, biotic and mechanical. Futhermore, whilst malfunction and dysfunction can either be prevented or corrected through processes of reparation, this still does not omit the probability of decay happening at a later interval (it may reduce the probability, but it does not exclude it completely).

All systems, biological and otherwise, have timetables. Thus, the lifespan of a person or machine cannot be extended indefinitely. Therefore, the theory of immortality is falsified.

A subjunctive counterargument to this is that the lifespan of human beings (or machines) may not be able to be extended indefinitely, but nonetheless they can indeed be extended. However, one has to consider the practicalities of this. If we were to extend the human lifespan by another 300 years with the current biopsychological diseases we have right now (and it can be argued that although some disorders may manifest themselves strictly neurologically, the incipient chemical cascades which had precipitated them were intrinsically biological in nature, hence the word 'biochemical'), we would be getting nowhere. Because with the epistemic structural and functional limitations of the mind, we would not want to live another 300 years like this. Neurologists have to work on restructuring the human mind such that it functions at a much more optimal level for a majority of the time. Perhaps if neurochemists and genetic engineers could perhaps create a replica of the human brain such that they could discover how to create self-correcting mechanisms within the brain. Unfortunately, the field of biological engineering in conjunction with nanotechnology would have to advance considerably before then. But I believe they will........I just know that I wouldn't wanna be stuck within the trappings of the defective mind that I have. I'd far prefer to die at 30 or 40 than live with my defective, slow brain for another 300 years........Jezuz /:

Thanks Lauren! Although I have made substantial progress from the time I was a living zombie, I still have a long way to go. It takes me many many more times the most people take to soak in information and my memory is still very poor. I'm trying now to get involved in lobby efforts and some special projects. I consistently doubt myself all the time, but I'm determined to continue to make a good recovery. If you have the time Lauren go to the projects section in the forums section. Here is the link....http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php?showforum=295. Once you're there go to the LEEEP projects section or any other project you think you could be a help with. Here is the link to the internetworking teams project. http://imminst.org/w...index.php/LEEEP. Go to bullet number 39 for a description of this project. This is the first and most popular project so far. The other one is the 72 list which is trying to generate discussion for improvements on spreading the imminst mission and meme. Here is a description of the project here, http://www.imminst.o...showtopic=26664

Lauren I know you have some time on your hands now, and I know you are passionate about radical life extension as well as other H+ ideas like brain augmentation through biotech and nanotech. So I think you would be great at this. The LEEEP projects director is named Brokenportal.

[Lauren]

The other possibility is that we could somehow create a species of cybernetic whole-body regenerating quasi-human entities (and DON'T make me come up with an acronym for that one;) But I sincerely doubt that this would circumvent that timetable for decay. I highly doubt that systems could go on regenerating indefinitely. However, if someone could prove me wrong, you might be able to win the Nobel prize!! ^_^

Ummm......you're welcome I'm afraid you sound a bit too laconic in depersonalizing this whole response, but what have you.......I would far prefer to have such an exchange on a human level, really. I am rather taken aback by this

Thanks Lauren! Although I have made substantial progress from the time I was a living zombie, I still have a long way to go. It takes me many many more times the most people take to soak in information and my memory is still very poor. I'm trying now to get involved in lobby efforts and some special projects. I consistently doubt myself all the time, but I'm determined to continue to make a good recovery. If you have the time Lauren go to the projects section in the forums section. Here is the link....http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php?showforum=295. Once you're there go to the LEEEP projects section or any other project you think you could be a help with. Here is the link to the internetworking teams project. http://imminst.org/w...index.php/LEEEP. Go to bullet number 39 for a description of this project. This is the first and most popular project so far. The other one is the 72 list which is trying to generate discussion for improvements on spreading the imminst mission and meme. Here is a description of the project here, http://www.imminst.o...showtopic=26664

Lauren I know you have some time on your hands now, and I know you are passionate about radical life extension as well as other H+ ideas like brain augmentation through biotech and nanotech. So I think you would be great at this. The LEEEP projects director is named Brokenportal.

[bacopa]

Do not misinterpret this, but I do take substantial objection to the ideas of life extension on the basis of one distinct logical fallacy: the fact that death and decay is an eventuality. I know it feels as though I am sounding a dirge by saying this, but one thing which proponents of SENS theory need to acknowledge is the fact that the process of decadence is a pervasive force which affects all systems, biotic and mechanical. This is why if we were to hypothetically develop the technologies to create a cybernetic race of machines, no physical law in the universe could prevent the decay process from shortening the 'lifespan' of those machines. I suppose that we might be able to create self-replicating machines that would repair themselves, but even this assumes that we could somehow defeat the process of decay and somehow achieve a constant system of perfection that never breaks down. And unfortunately, malfunction and dysfuntion are essential properties of physical systems, biotic and mechanical. Futhermore, whilst malfunction and dysfunction can either be prevented or corrected through processes of reparation, this still does not omit the probability of decay happening at a later interval (it may reduce the probability, but it does not exclude it completely).

All systems, biological and otherwise, have timetables. Thus, the lifespan of a person or machine cannot be extended indefinitely. Therefore, the theory of immortality is falsified.

A subjunctive counterargument to this is that the lifespan of human beings (or machines) may not be able to be extended indefinitely, but nonetheless they can indeed be extended. However, one has to consider the practicalities of this. If we were to extend the human lifespan by another 300 years with the current biopsychological diseases we have right now (and it can be argued that although some disorders may manifest themselves strictly neurologically, the incipient chemical cascades which had precipitated them were intrinsically biological in nature, hence the word 'biochemical'), we would be getting nowhere. Because with the epistemic structural and functional limitations of the mind, we would not want to live another 300 years like this. Neurologists have to work on restructuring the human mind such that it functions at a much more optimal level for a majority of the time. Perhaps if neurochemists and genetic engineers could perhaps create a replica of the human brain such that they could discover how to create self-correcting mechanisms within the brain. Unfortunately, the field of biological engineering in conjunction with nanotechnology would have to advance considerably before then. But I believe they will........I just know that I wouldn't wanna be stuck within the trappings of the defective mind that I have. I'd far prefer to die at 30 or 40 than live with my defective, slow brain for another 300 years........Jezuz /:

The seven primary causes of aging, as listed by biogerontologist Aubrey de Grey, are 1) cell loss, 2) nuclear mutations and epimutations, 3) mitochondrial mutations, 4) cellular senescence, 5) extracellular cross-links, 6) extracellular junk, and 7) intracellular junk. Much research is already underway to find engineering solutions to these biochemical challenges. say death and decay is an eventuality? It's actually quite a simple idea, although to implement it would take great skill and knowledge. If one takes SENS theory we could engineer a way to stop the 7 causes of aging in their tracks.

I don't pretend to know the actual science behind this because I haven't studied it, and I probably wouldn't remember either. But the idea is that we could use regenerative medicines to stop these causes of aging in their tracks. I suppose the bodies cells break down much like a car rusts. So if a persons cells could be repaired much like we repair a broken car than why not be able to actually halt the aging process? Talk to Aubrey De Grey about just how deviant cell aging can be slowed down and ultimately even halted. My memory is just too bad to be able to remember all the details talked about in his theory; and I apologize for this. But one day, it is argued, we may be even able to reverse the aging process; again I don't pretend to know how. But it has been talked about quite a bit.

And as for the trappings of your mind, Transhumanists quite want to work on the limitations of the human brain. I talked to you before about David Pierce's abolitionist philosophy, such that with biotechnology and ultimately nanotechnology we will be able to create much happier humans who don't succumb to the hedonic treadmill of Darwinian heritage. Gradients of true bliss will one day be the norm and this is right up your alley as you yourself desire to become a much happier more functional human. Just think of drugs like the SSRI's that have transformed society and helped severely depressed people become much much happier. Even ECT treatment has played a major role in upping human happiness. Now imagine what future technologies could give us! If abolitionism and life extension work hand in hand than you very possibly could live a much longer, even indefinite life while being happy.

As for your point regarding accidents I totally agree with you. And in the article I collaborated on with Reason at the Longevity Meme we carefully left that out, or not so carefully. Until we can upload the information in our brains to a silicon substrate OF COURSE accidents will kill us. That's where the promise of cryonics comes in. But according to recent articles I've read on that there is a low to moderate probability that cryonics will even work. We need to get past the social problems, existential problems, technological problems, and other such problems for Cryonics to be a possibility. But the vitrification process of ensuring the freezing process doesn't damage our brains is believed to be just decades away, unless this belief is wrong than it could be like 50 years.

So don't give up on the prospect of indefinite life spans, even though I doubt even with factoring in Aubrey's theory on escape velocity, it will happen in our lifetimes.

[Shannon Vyff]

Lauren what a pleasure to have you posting! You're in the right place for such discussions I saw your related comments on FB too. I personally feel that some life forms can easily live hundreds of years, and a few even are essentially "immortal" then we should be able to evolve the same--but of course will have a myriad of issues to deal with, none of this being quite moral to implement till we fix some of our extremes of inequality as well I feel we (in the extreme life extension movement) have a long ways to go till we (humanity) fix many of our environmental, and disparity problems as well as our extremely short life span. I agree with you about not wanting to live a long time with a damaged brain, I've fought with depression in my own life and know how hard it is to feel "sane" at times and how so much of it is relative. I'd take a cybernetic body, or even a bio engineered younger "mortal body" within my current life-time however long that may be, or if I get "extra" life from cryonics possibly working. I'm pretty much open to anything, and in the mean time I do what I can to give back to my community. If you did ever want to kill yourself instead of living with some disability or degradation I hope you'd give cryonics a chance. If I get to live longer, that is more time for me to give back.... It would take a while to list all the stuff I do but I'll share what I sent to my religious education class today


Hello First UU Austin Middle School kids, parents and relatives,

Welcome to Summer!

This Sunday will be the first class of our new Middle School Social Action curriculum designed by Middle School Teacher and Youth Advisor Scott Butki, with assistance by outgoing interim Middle School Teacher Shannon Vyff. Read on for interesting facts about Social Action.

Last Sunday we had a discussion about Heifer Foundation, one of our class members Henry Newton will be attending their camp this summer. Some of those present weren't sure what Heifer Foundation was. I wanted to provide two links, one with info about the summer camp that Henry will be doing (and you can too, just contact Live Oak UU and see if there is still space on the bus, last I heard there was!): http://www.heifer. org/site/ c.mmKTJbNUJrF/ b.5018143/ k.BDA0/Home/ apps/nl/newslett er2.asp

And, just what does the Heifer Foundation do? (there is a nice short and informative intro as well as a cool interactive map you can explore ;-) ): http://www.heifer. org/site/ c.edJRKQNiFiG/ b.201452/

If you are one of our industrious students, and so feel inclined please share what struck you the most about the site or what your favorite Heifer Foundation project is at class tomorrow (I'm partial to the bunnies myself ;-) ).

So--Social Action....Why do it?

It is part of Judaism, its in the New and Old Testament--Jesus said to do it, as we discussed last week.

It is part of Hinduism's credo, here is a quote from Swami Dayananda: "Compassion (daya) and liberality (dan),the two principles of Hindu dharma or righteous conduct, should not be driven by pity and sympathy or be condescending -- sort of like throwing crumbs to the poor. Every Hindu should empathize with others in need, because they are only superficially others; in truth they are part of the same God. "

It is part of Budhism's eight fold path. http://www.thebigvi ew.com/buddhism/ eightfoldpath. html

The five pillars of Islam that all Muslims try to uphold, requires it:
http://www.teaching ideas.co. uk/re/fivepillar s.htm

"ZAKAH. Each year, Muslims are supposed to give a fixed proportion of their savings for endeavours such as helping the poor. In this way, they believe that their wealth is "made pure""

Atheists even do it: From the United States Atheists' site: "Atheism promotes social action for a better world."

Some of you who have been UU for a while know that we uphold social action as part of our own system of beliefs and many in our churches support the UU Service Committee:
http://www.uusc. org/about_ UUSC, we at First UU raise money for UUSC each year through our Guest At Your Table program.

So, do all these different religions, these faiths and non faiths all practice social action because it feels good, because it seems to be the right thing to do? Or because we inherently have empathy for others, and realize that some are born into harder situations than others...that we do not all come into the world equally.

Those are all true points and now science shows that volunteering, and doing social action (giving money, or time) can actually add years to your life--check out the following quote from this article: http://health. msn.com/health- topics/articlepa ge.aspx?cp- documentid= 100239660

"People who volunteer at two or more organizations have a 44 percent lower death rate than those who don't do any charitable work, the Buck Institute for Age Research in Novato, Calif., reports. "That's comparable to exercising four times a week," Post points out. Like working out, helping others seems to boost antibodies. "We're establishing a biology of compassion involving the immune system, brain, and hormones," says Post."

Pretty cool, we feel better psychologically by helping others--but we actually physically get better too.

So, look forward to getting more healthy this summer, as we learn more about how youths in our community and in our country, kids your age--give back to our society, and how you can too. We have an exciting summer of service planned, where you can have fun with your friends and give back to our own church community :-)

Shannon Vyff Outgoing Middle School Teacher

--

Back to my ImmInst friends

I'm outgoing since I'm moving to England this summer from Austin TX, but I'll volunteer there too. This past year I was on four boards, three committees, taught three class--all while being mom to three kids I'm an Alcor member, Mprize 300 member, donate to IEET, Singularity Institute, Humanity Plus (extreme life extension related organizations) as well as Doctor's Without Boarders, UNICEF, Amnesty International, Human Rights' Watch, Union of Concerned Scientists, World Wildlife Federation and other environmental and social action organizations.

Even though all my volunteering keeps me pretty healthy, I also exercise, do Calorie Restriction and take supplements ;-)

Many at ImmInst are interested in living longer through supplements or transhumanist related ways (like living long enough to part of the Singularity), but its a great community where people can share their experiences and compare notes on what has helped them (such as the valuable commentary in this thread!), also a place to grow in thought/philosophy. You can get involved as much as you want in life extension advocacy, there are many venues and ways to network here. Devon has a long history of involvement and knows a lot of people in the movement, his contributions are greatly appreciated.

I hope to see you and Devon around for a long time, but mainly that you have a lot of fun together!

[bacopa]

Shannon, I think your obvious humanity and warmth is so endearing! Lauren was warning me against being too laconic and depersonalized in my responses. My only complaint with imminist, and it's not really a complaint as is a concern, is that too many members here seem to become cold scientists and refrain from becoming too emotional. I should be careful here, because I really like and deeply respect everyone here! But I sometimes wish people responded on a more human level. Sometimes I worry that the daunting mission of trying to live forever puts people in panic mode and they forget to lighten up and just be happy! I know this may sound silly, but it's what I believe. For so long I was intimidated to really be my goofy, open self because I feared people would judge me too harshly. There was a thread where some members assumed I was schizophrenic due to my worries about alleged "machines," which I don't fear now and know was delusional. So basically I stopped posting, also because of my cognitive problems and low energy levels, but I also felt like a stupid person not worthy of imminst's respect. Now I'm slowly gaining my confidence back and feel as though I have something worthy to contribute.

As you may be able to obviously see, Lauren is a verbal genius! Her knowledge of complex vocab is simply second to none. I would die to have her verbal skills. But she doubts her intelligence all the time and I keep telling her how wrong she is! She could really make a more than substantial contribution to imminst and I'm trying to get her to work on some of the projects here as I think she could be a big help.

Anyway. one thing we have in common is self doubt as we both suffer from OCD. With me, it used to be severe, but now it is more manageable, although I still have my days when I obsess about death and getting this illness and that illness, etc. It sucks to be an atheist!

I'm glad your work at the U.U. is going so well! I haven't been to my local chapter in Marblehead, Ma. in a while but I plan on going sometime soon. My father wrote a sermon for the minister on something related to astronomy, I forget, but it might have been about dark matter.