12 replies to this topic

[anjatalker]

Hi,

I've been taking piracetam, vinpocetine, and choline for some weeks, and I have been feeling "down" in overall mood. I am usually somewhat manic at times (not clinically so, however), and I've noticed that this has decreased and I have been feeling very emotionally flat.

I read in the following website (http://nootropics.com) that nootropics can affect mood negatively by disturbing the balance of acetylcholine and noradrenaline in the brain. Anti-depressants lower acetylcholine, nootropics raise it. This is the simple explanation. There are more details in the webpage I have linked.

My question is: has it actually been proven that nootropics that raise acetylcholine levels lower mood or cause personality problems like stress intolerance? Has anyone here felt such effects after using nootropics? If so, was there a way of preventing this while continuing to take the nootropics?

Thanks,

Andrés

[scifiwriter]

Andres, and all,
I have the same problem.
I adore Piracetam, Aniracetam, for they have given me back my powers of concentration (lost 15 years ago when I quit smoking)
Choline makes my breath stink from miles away.
Pirac. and anirac. help me concentrate and work hard and well and creatively, but, give me impatience and a holier-than-thou attitude that can be quite irritable to my loved ones.
Who knows the solution?
Gratefully appreciating any helpful responses,
SFW

[anjatalker]

Well, in my case I am not really feeling any ability to work hard and creatively. In fact, I feel that I just can't make myself care about my coursework. I find it very hard to sit down and get some work done, which is supposedly what these nootropics should help with. Other than that, I've been feeling pretty depressed, partly because of how this is affecting my academic performance (work piling up, late assignments, etc) and maybe as a trough to a cycle of emotions (I don't think I am bipolar or anything like that, but maybe I have something similar/milder).

[scifiwriter]

Oh, sorry for mischaracterizing your symptoms.
How much piracetam are we talking about?
I like Aniracetam best,
but if taking Piracetam, it's like 1600 mg. in the a.m. and maybe another 800 to 1600 later.
I'm thinking the choline was causing my depressive feelings. Pirac. alone = irritability
So confused.
Anyone care to give us some advice?
Oh, and BTW, have you tried Piracetam plus a nice double soy latte? Not kidding. Set me on fire!

[anjatalker]

I have been taking 800mg Piracetam + 10mg Vinpocetine + 250mg Choline Bitartrate/250mg Inositol for lunch, and then 800mg Piracetam + 10mg Vinpocetine for dinner.

I wake up pretty late, so lunch is my first meal and I usually get no sleeping problems either because I go to bed many hours after dinner.

Today I didn't take any nootropics and I'm feeling much better in overall mood. I did smoke the green herb last night (hadn't done so in about a month), but I don't think that could have such an effect on the whole of today.

[scifiwriter]

Hey, Andres,
It's been pretty slow around here.
Hey everyone, any suggestions?
Problems: 'Racetam depression
Maybe it's important to spend some days off it.
Until you really feel you "need" it again.
? It sure is a good nootropic, however.
What say you, Life Mirage?
Other racetam fans?

[rasinon]

The only times I've had a good feeling the day after smoking was when I had been smoking relatively large amounts for several days in a row (i.e. summer break during college). In these instancesa I would happily and confidently glide through the day without having to smoke. Smoking on one day tends to make me just feel stupid the next day. I've read that its a good idea to take a 1 day break from your nootropics regimine on occasion as certain nootropics can slowly build up and cause anxiety, muscle tension etc. I don't recall which nootropics do this however.

[scifiwriter]

I'll just put one thing on the record.
I don't "smoke" and am only interested in remedies that are legally obtainable over the counter, or by mail, e.g., Piracetam and Aniracetam.
Not to cast any aspersions, I swear, but just to CMA.

[anjatalker]

But does anyone have anything to say about the whole acetylcholine/norarenaline "axis" concept? Could it be that nootropics can get that out of whack by raising the ratio?

[chomsky]

As regards the question of the use of nootropics causing depression, I can say I have never experienced this problem. It seems curious to me because, certain drugs which inhibit the breakdown of acetylcholine (acetylcholine esterase inhibitors) have the effect of raising dopamine and norepinephrine levels. It would seem more plausible to me that nootropics which raise acetylcholine levels would trigger anxiety rather than a depressive episode.

[sja_]

Funny that you mention the anxiety thing Chomsky. I just started a nootropic stack of GPC choline, piracetam, DMAE and my anxiety was through the roof. After a week it has subsided a bit. Work has been stressful but in the back of my mind I was thinking that it was the Noops.

[bacopa]

I think in general whenever you're dealing with something as potent as Nootropics you're going to get adverse effects. Seems to me that there is little scientific evidence that nootropics really help with consentration can anyone prove me wrong?

[chomsky]

I think there needs to be some clarification in your argument. Firstly, you described Nootropics as "potent" which results in adverse effects for the particular user. However, standard treatments for illnesses of a cognitive nature far surpass any Nootropic on the market in terms of negative side effects. In fact, one suportive claim for Nootropics is the relative LACK of side effects but also the relative lack of statistically significant results in treating any particular ailment. So, I think the very opposite is true of what you claim, Nootropics are not very potent, which is why they have not been accepted into general clinical use.