29 replies to this topic

[AgeVivo]

"when i was a kid i felt that death was inacceptable and life too short" (at around age 5)
it seems to be a lot more common (/universal?) than one might think. i thought it would be fun to ask the question...

Edited by Mind, 19 September 2009 - 01:21 PM.

[AgeVivo]

...and life too SHORT. Short is missing in the title. If it could be fixed... thanx

[AgeVivo]

i wonder if it is common to human kind, or to people who are able to question/change things, if it is a cultural thing, or somthg that life extensioners have in common...

Edited by AgeVivo, 27 June 2009 - 10:05 AM.

[bacopa]

i wonder if it is common to human kind, or to people who are able to question/change things, if it is a cultural thing, or somthg that life extensioners have in common...

I tend to think it is more the norm to obviously fear death and thus think it unacceptable. I think it is mostly religion that brainwashes many people once they get older. Than people kind of put death on the backburner hoping that God and heaven will make it all better.

But I really think that alot of people lack the scientific thinking that perhaps death can be stopped. We are groomed to think at a young age that death is inevitable and that you can't do anything to intervene in the aging process. I came from an agnostic/atheist family, and I think that gave me the open mindedness to question if one day we can do something about it. Most people use religion as their way of dealing with death, and this is unfortunate.

[AgeVivo]

i tend to think it is the norm too (if most people answer "no" i'll probably think it is not)
i myself became convinced much later that smthg could indeed be done, when i heard of dolly the sheep, read about its short telomeres and discovered about CR

[Cyberbrain]

In elementary school one day I was going on a field trip and was sitting next to 2 friends.

We passed a cemetery. One friend asks how would you like to die? One says she would like to be cremated and have her ashes thrown in the sea, the other says he wants to be buried with his dog.

I sat there, looking out the window and simply said "I don't want to die". My friends laughed and the day continued. But since then, my whole outlook on life changed.

Edited by Cyberbrain, 29 June 2009 - 04:06 AM.
grammer errors

[Luna]

In elementary school one day I was going on a field trip and was sitting next to 2 friends.

We passed a cemetery. One friend asks how would you like to die? One says she would like to be cremated and have her ashes thrown in the sea, the other says he wants to be buried with his dog.

I sat there, looking out the window and simply said "I don't want to die". My friends laughed and the day continued. But since then, my whole outlook on life changed.

It reminds me myself on school trips.. always feeling anxiety that made my forehead burn when passingn ext to cemeteries and being really down..
No one else seemed to care.

[Cyberbrain]

It really bugged me too, when no one else in my class thought that death was bad. I was picked on a little in high school for doing a presentation about immortality.

[bacopa]

I think those that are raised to be agnostic or atheist tend to be the one's that fear it the most. But on some level we all fear it, maybe some of us are just more genetically disposed or hard wired to fear death. I would have to do some research on this though.

[Cyberbrain]

Technically everyone fears death ... otherwise there would be no religion

[forever freedom]

I never felt this when i was a kid. I didn't start thinking and being a conscious being until i dropped religion at age 16-17. Until then i was a non-thinking zombie just living through life.

[didierc]

Hello AgeVivo,

I didn't think a lot about this when I was a kid. And later, like most people, I was afraid of dying, but I thought that there was no choice. I only discover recently that there could be a choice even maybe during my lifetime.

One of the biggest problems to convince the people is that the people do not want to think about their death. Consciously or unconsciously, they refuse to speak and think about it. And as long as death is unavoidable, it is a very logical choice. It is better not to think too much about something painful because thinking about it is increasing anxiety.

And for people like me who do not believe that there is a god, it is of course even more painful to think about the dead.

So, our work is not easy at all. But on the other hand, the mystery of life and death always fascinates us. And we live in a world changing incredibly fast. And our goal here is to make people discover that, if we receive a large support and if the scientists are working good enough, we will live a lot longer pretty soon. And maybe we will not age anymore in a not so distant future.

Didier

[cyborgdreamer]

I didn't really think about death as a child. I remember bringing it up once but my parents reassured me that there was a heaven and (I'm ashamed to admit) I believed them. I became more rational and stopped believing in the supernatural as I got older. I still didn't worry much about death until one day, when I was 13 or 14, I started thinking about the nature of consciousness. I found myself absolutely horrified by the idea that I would someday not exist. And I still feel the same today.

[brokenportal]

I remember waking up around the age of 5 screaming because I was thinking about death, and how I thought it was horrible and unfair and useless, and just, whats the word, completely and utterly gut wrentchingly horrifyingly tragic.

I thought most kids got that though. I think that went on until I was about ten, then from what I remember I kind of forgot about it. Cant really remember though. I wonder if I would find mention of it in journaling I did in those years. Then when I was about 18 or 19 I thought about it until I realized there was something we can do about it, and then I dedicated myself to helping get indefinite life extension, or "life expansion" and "curing all diseases" and "stopping death" as I called it at that time.

[n25philly]

I don't remember how old I was, but one of my first memories is of my crying while asking my mom about death. Twenty something years later and death makes even less sense to me now.

[Mind]

When I was young, I didn't like the thought of death, but I was comforted by religious teachings, similar to cyborgdreamer. Similar to Didier, once I realized that we have options, then death and the suffering that comes along with aging seemed ever more tragic. I echo Didier's comments that one of the biggest problems to getting more people working on a solution to aging and death is culture. Thousands of years of cultural programming is hard to undo. People need to realize they have options.

[xEva]

When I was a kid, I was told that death is when you cease to exist and they put your body in a box and bury it in the ground, and then worms eat it up. At that age I could not conceive that I could cease to exist and for a long time this image was the stuff of my nightmares. I was about 9 when the idea of non-existence could finally fit into my head and I actually found it soothing in very unhappy moments.

[brokenportal]

It seems like its natural for new people to not accept death. Older people though have been giving up on that fight for all that time. They could not find a way out and so they gave up. They began filling their minds with things like religion so they would accept death more and more.

That was a good tactic to qualm the hysteria while an underground of progressivists slowly pushed forward. A way to fight death has now opened up, and all we have to do now is keep the desire to fight death, alive in kids heads, rather than turning it off. Thats all we have to do really, just unveil the paths in science that have opened up for us all to fight death with.

[trevinski]

I also felt that Death was inacceptable at that age, and then my English teacher told me to look at Death as unacceptable.

This is an interesting thread and hits close to home to what I was going to propose discussing. Initially when I had the apple fed to me back when, I was thinking that a Life not obeying the commands of a God of a religion was worse than just randomly dying, because it is not a tragedy to die when you are young and full of potential because somehow you are "clean" at that age and gain salvation. I know look at the concept of justified suffering and death as much more unacceptable than the absence of the aforementioned belief systems. I don't look at Death as something negative, as I know nothing of it, but I can relate to the pain in a lesser extent. So I guess I find the preventable causes that create suffering to be more unacceptable than Death now, if we can't reconcile the two,obviously.

[Berserker]

I started to think about it this year. And im 18 years old. For my is quite inacceptable as well.

[Shannon Vyff]

Some kids feel it more strongly than others, I went through it quite strongly and have seen different amounts in each of my children. One is ok with death and what "is", generally is happy with life and is quite sociable--one rationalizes it, and one is still struck with immobilizing terror at the mere thought... what is most interesting to me is that they were all raised in the same immortalist, cryonicist household--it really seems to be inherent genetic temperament.

[brokenportal]

I started to think about it this year. And im 18 years old. For my is quite inacceptable as well.

Thats the age I started to think seriously about it too for some reason. Maybe it has something to do with seriously starting to comtemplate what you really want to do with your life at that point, spurred by the kick of turning 18 and having to leave the house. They say that most serious change happens in conjunction with a significant emotional event. I dont remember the event being emotional, but subconciously it may have been.

This reminds me how in about 9th grade our science teacher got on to the subject of aging, and he built up a little suspense for us, asking us what the mechanisms of aging were, leaving us thinking there may be a way to work with it. Then he came back with dramatic points about how its all in our telomeres and that they break off and can not be fixed like some kind of catch 22. I wonder if that is a common theme that science teachers go over. If it is, then maybe that means its worth a vip outreach, sending copies of ending aging to them.

[brokenportal]

it really seems to be inherent genetic temperament.

I wonder how true that may be. It seems that maybe free thinking is a trait/ ability that is evolving to allow for the survival of the smartest, in addition to, and some times over lapping with the survival of the fittest.

[exapted]

When I was a child, I never fully accepted or even realized that I would die. So I voted no. Death was not unacceptable, it was incomprehensible.

[Shannon Vyff]

it really seems to be inherent genetic temperament.

I wonder how true that may be. It seems that maybe free thinking is a trait/ ability that is evolving to allow for the survival of the smartest, in addition to, and some times over lapping with the survival of the fittest.

Just want to point out that the terror of death, does not always help-it can shorten your life. An adult who is more happy with life and accepting, with a healthy amount of fear of death-enough to cause them to eat well, exercise, wear their seat-belt etc.-can do better than an adult who is terrorized to the point they can barely function. Some people genetically have large extremes with their expression of and feeling of emotion--some of them even turn to self medication of various legal or illegal drugs to alleviate their fears, this too can shorten their lives.

[brokenportal]

Interesting thoughts. So maybe a part of this mentality that allows more for an indefinite life extensionist state of mind is an emotional control, or maybe lower level of emotions, that others might not have. Emotions it seems played a big role in survival of the fittest, and now with less selective breeding pressure in that area, it seems that non strong emotion gets to flourish more. For example, less men are killing because they are jealous, or displaying dominance, and less women may be being selected for their high emotions, which would be better for protecting their kids in wilder situations. For example, a woman who jumps to the door with a club at every noise is probably going to kill or scare off more beasts than a less emotional woman.

I dont know, Im just speculating, but its interesting to think about.

[Luna]

I wouldn't call people who are more accepting of this less intelligent at all.

They can be just as intelligent but for whatever reason, be it genetic or education or even feeling, sometimes even intelligence, they will accept it more.

But intelligence I mean that generally, living is emotional.
Living is for the benefit of you.
If you come to the conclusion you are not that important, you might see it differently.

I my opinion, I am still important for myself, even if not for anyone else.

[exapted]

I remember in the 1990s I heard about Dr. Jack Kevorkian, and assisted suicide. I didn't have any complaints about him, but I felt it was amazing that someone could voluntarily die. I thought that, since there was no afterlife, even pain was better than non-existence. I must have been in my early teens.

[shazam]

I dunno. I don't remember every really getting my head up in a fucking twist about it, though it was sad when relatives died. I'm interested in science and keeping healthy, so this is the place to be, but eh. I know I'm going to die one day. Really, it's quite a thing to realize truly... I like the quote in fight club "First you gotta know, not FEAR, that you're going to die.". Sort of a "do what you want, while you're alive to do it" mentality.

I think the main reason people fear death is they are not doing what they want. There are some religions that say that fear of death propels alot of the suffering in the world. It's why people feel the need to have a positive opinion about them coming out of the mouth of the crowd, because it would 'immortalize them' in a way. Personally, while I find it sort of interesting, I don't really contemplate it alot, though I think I might start. Might get a fire under my ass =P.

That's not to say this isn't a worthy endeavor. But doing it because you're afraid to die? First of all, you're gonna die anyway, looking at how fast most science progresses when it's niche science. Second of all, that is an extremely unhealthy attitude towards death. I'm not saying be some nihilistic bum who wouldn't step out of the way of a bus, but realize that the time you have is finite. I'm also not saying 'dduuuuuudes, party your fuckin' brains out! Yeah, take a hit off that crack pipe!', though to each his own, but do the things that are genuinely important to you instead of spending your life seeking 'approval' or 'acceptance' or 'validation' or meaning derived mainly from others. Posturing is such a damned waste of time. The biggest waste of time of all, actually. I say, don't bother posturing. Focus on the moment, plan for the future (instead of obsessing/worrying over it), and do what you want. Focus on the things you can control.

I'm a big fan of Ayn Rand's work, though her characters are sorta like walking philosophy discourses, but Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged are two very good books that really go over the whole 'pursue your own selfish wants vs be selfless' situation and do it well. Two awesome books to read if you're self actualizing, they are packed with solid gold, and just good reads. Don't take it TOO seriously, though. Understand with your own mind. A dogma is completely useless. You learn nothing from it, you suceed only in twisting your mind to convince yourself you understand, or that it's valid even though in understanding it you would realize it isn't.

Edited by shazam, 06 November 2009 - 07:38 AM.

[Teixeira]

I remember in the 1990s I heard about Dr. Jack Kevorkian, and assisted suicide. I didn't have any complaints about him, but I felt it was amazing that someone could voluntarily die. I thought that, since there was no afterlife, even pain was better than non-existence. I must have been in my early teens.

You have a very interesting point :"...non-existence." What do we konw about non-existence? When we talk of that, we usually utilise our time to measure the time of the dead people wright? But how can we be sure that we can do that? The flux of time of a dead person is it syncronnised with ours? I´m affraid it isn´t! Why this might be like so needs a very long explanation that includes the different time dimensions, and so on. One of this days i´ll discuss that in my topic. Keep an eye on it.