16 replies to this topic

[Matt]

http://forum.rickros...9,73445,page=21

Just found this, maybe some of you wnt to take a look at it, it's quite a long one. From a very quick view, it doesn't look very positive discussion on cryonics though.

[Luke Parrish]

http://forum.rickros...9,73445,page=21

Just found this, maybe some of you wnt to take a look at it, it's quite a long one. From a very quick view, it doesn't look very positive discussion on cryonics though.

It is more of a paranoid conspiracy rant than a debate. The active posters there are not disagreeing with each other in any way, but are instead just making a lot of bizzare claims, accusations, and insinuations... The one pro-cryonics person on there was banned for being "off topic" in trying to explain how cryonics was a good idea (apparently the discussion topic was supposed to be ways in which it is a cult).

Doesn't sound like much of a fair and open discussion to me.

[kismet]

I'm at a loss for word, I've rarely seens so deeply offensive content. They really do seem to believe that ALCOR is some form of cult. Although, some of the content is rather hilarious than sad: 'Worse, some of the more intense cryonics believers literally don't believe in "death"...But if they are conned into believing that "death is not death" that is literally the EXACT same position various cults have moved into, where there have been deaths. Real deaths, of real people, that is not a theory.'

Someone cares to wakeup "anticult" and tell him that science has known this for decades (i.e. that death is not death)? 

Looking at page 1-3; did they actually ban advancedatheist or did he give up?

EDIT: ROFL he was banned. I really can't decide whether their "discussion" is just pathetic or hilarious.

Edited by kismet, 29 June 2009 - 02:33 PM.

[Mind]

On a side note, catch Dr. Brian Wowk on the Sunday Evening Update, this Sunday July 5th.

[quadclops]

It's amazing how offended & angry some people can get over the personal Life/Death decisions of people they've never met, even when those decisions will not effect them in any way. Sad, goofy buggers!

[kismet]

It's also sad that they have mixed some great talking points (which I'd like to have seen addressed more thoroughly) with some of the most bizarre lies and misinterpretations I've read in a long time.

Edited by kismet, 29 June 2009 - 11:56 PM.

[niner]

I was expecting religious extremists when I visited the site, but they are "anti-cult" extremists. Hmm. Probably a bunch of people naive enough to get sucked into a cult in the first place. Either that or they have loved ones who became involved with a cult or something that they think is a cult. At any rate, they are incredibly biased. It's sad, really.

[advancedatheist]

'Worse, some of the more intense cryonics believers literally don't believe in "death"...But if they are conned into believing that "death is not death" that is literally the EXACT same position various cults have moved into, where there have been deaths. Real deaths, of real people, that is not a theory.'

A lot of self-professed "skeptics" and "humanists" still hold unexamined mystical beliefs about death. They believe, at least implicitly, that something spooky or supernatural happens at death that defies scientific intervention.

Cryonicists then come along with the argument that scientific intervention can arrest and stabilize the process of death in a patient through low temperature storage so that he or she can benefit from the superior trauma medicine of a future era. Apparently these "skeptics" don't like the fact that we've one-upped them in the process of scientific enlightenment by showing that they still hold to remnants of a superstitious world view.

[drus]

cryonics is a bold and noble scientific pursuit, and in the end i think we as cryonicists will be vindicated. there is absolutely no reasonable argument against cryonics for the simple fact that the only alternative is DEATH (anyway)! those who argue against cryonics and/or don't opt for it, are fools. plain and simple, thats how i see it. fortune always favors the bold!

[kismet]

Cryonicists then come along with the argument that scientific intervention can arrest and stabilize the process of death in a patient through low temperature storage so that he or she can benefit from the superior trauma medicine of a future era. Apparently these "skeptics" don't like the fact that we've one-upped them in the process of scientific enlightenment by showing that they still hold to remnants of a superstitious world view.

Yeah, pretty ironic that we were the first to "go one god further" as Dawkins would put it.

Many crazy people are attracted to cryonics (although, most of them are just slightly crazy in a positive, nerdy way), but I'm sure that the especially crazy people harm the image of cryonics.

Edited by kismet, 02 July 2009 - 05:36 PM.

[PWAIN]

The thread starts as someone very upset about Ted. It then seem like some people who have had a falling out with cryonics, Alcor specifically needing to attack. Some names are repeatedly hammered. Most of the thread (I guestimate around 70%) is driven by 1 individual. It seems to have more to do with attacking Alcor than proving cult status. Anyone reading it from atart to finish must be seriously bored and anyone taking it seriously must be quite deluded.

Doesn't see much point trying to discuss with them - especially given their support for censorship. Perhaps unanswered is best...

[Shannon Vyff]

I've seen that before, it has been brought up from time to time and is always the same individual. They use people's quotes without permission which is disturbing and possibly against the law. Melody has some good points in her criticisms, I disagree with her though on a few--just into the extent of perfection with perfusion that she'd like. She does have valid concerns about the use of money at SA, that has been changed in the time since she worked there. Alcor and CI both do a good job with the limited resources that they have. As I'd like to see cryonic suspensions become more professional, I think the current organizations are doing an excellent job right now. Each person who has deanimated and been preserved recently has had a good suspension. One can nit-pick or one can support and help. The numbers speak for themselves though on money--cryonicists are not in it for the money. Also, the "cronyism" is warranted, cryonicists want other cryonicists running the organizations--there aren't that many cryonicists out there to choose from, we have to use those that have been reliable and useful in the past and have been proven to be trustworthy.

[kismet]

I've seen that before, it has been brought up from time to time and is always the same individual. They use people's quotes without permission which is disturbing and possibly against the law.

What do you mean? How could that that be illegal if those are not private statements and are not defaming or out of context. Although, to be honest their whole thread reads like smear campaign so the latter point might be argued.

[brokenportal]

Somebody recently asked me if Alcor or Cryonics Institute is a better choice. I dont know what the answer is. Can somebody tell me? Im also wondering, if I know somebody that wants to get signed up, where should I send them? To Alcor or Cryonics Institute? Or are there sales people that I can send them directly to?

[RighteousReason]

Somebody recently asked me if Alcor or Cryonics Institute is a better choice. I dont know what the answer is. Can somebody tell me? Im also wondering, if I know somebody that wants to get signed up, where should I send them? To Alcor or Cryonics Institute? Or are there sales people that I can send them directly to?

Rudi Hoffman.

http://www.rudihoffman.com/

He's the guy I went through. Very nice, and very knowledgeable. He makes it very easy.

[pranavi]

click here to know more

[Cryomedic]

Somebody recently asked me if Alcor or Cryonics Institute is a better choice. I dont know what the answer is. Can somebody tell me? Im also wondering, if I know somebody that wants to get signed up, where should I send them? To Alcor or Cryonics Institute? Or are there sales people that I can send them directly to?

alcor cost 120,000$ CI costs 28,000$ other then that you need to read membership info on both websites...the main difference is price.