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AOR: Ortho-Core, Basic, and Essential Mix to be reformulated


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#31 david ellis

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Posted 06 July 2009 - 11:41 AM

A blood test may show high or normal-high B9 levels even with out supplementation. And that is why UMs need 5MTHF. But OMs should not take 5MTHF.



Wikipedia says-
"L-methylfolate is the natural, active form of folate used at the cellular level for DNA reproduction, the cysteine cycle and the regulation of homocysteine among other functions. 'The un-methylated form, Folic Acid (vitamin b9) is found in leafy green vegetables. Synthetic folic acid works to replicate the action of folate; but must be broken down in a series of metabolic steps in order to become L-methylfolate. Approximately 10% of the general population (homozygous TT) lack the enzymes needed to receive any benefit from folic acid. Another 40% of the population (heterozygous CT) appear to convert only a limited amount of folic acid into L-methylfolate. They cannot fully process supplemental folic acid at RDA or higher dose levels. The remaining population do not have an MTHFR polymorphism and can fully metabolize folic acid."

50% of the population is undermethylators. Why would it be harmful for a normal methlyator to take 5MTHF, the actual natural form used at the cellular level? Why isn't it reasonable to switch to 5MTHF and cover 100% of the population?

#32 4eva

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Posted 06 July 2009 - 12:51 PM

Overmethylators methylate too quickly. They need supplements that slow down methylation. Supplements like 5MTHF speed up methylation or make it more efficient. Over and under methylation is like too fast and too slow methylation. You want to regulate methylation so its functioning at optimal levels.

5MTHF is a methyl donor. Taking methyl donors if you don't need them can effect your methylation rate.

Sometimes a COMT SNP type can have a problem with methyl B12 and need to use hydroxy B12. The reaction to methyl B12 is a feeling of being over stimulated, too wound up to sleep.

The objective is to use supplements to improve methylation, not make it worse.

5MTHF is like shortcut to the methylation pathway for folic acid.

OMs can have too low homocysteine, which can be a problem like too high HCY.

Edited by 4eva, 06 July 2009 - 12:57 PM.


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#33 nameless

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Posted 06 July 2009 - 05:12 PM

I read in an article that approx. 10-15% are overmethylators, while the rest are undermethylators or in-between.

If this is the case (even if approximately right), wouldn't it make sense for AOR to use 5MTHF anyway, as it would benefit the majority of the population? Maybe the 10-15% overmethylators could take a lower dose?

And wouldn't it be a bad idea for overmethylators to take large doses of folic acid too? Even if they methylate too quickly, wouldn't too much folic acid be a bad idea, as well? Maybe not as bad as large doses of 5MTHF, but would a low dose of 5MTHF sort equal a high dose of folic acid, in overmethylator people? And since AOR previously had a high dose of folic acid, they were sort of benefiting nobody (in my opinion).

#34 4eva

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Posted 06 July 2009 - 10:33 PM

Overmethylators need high doses of niacin and folic acid to correct their faulty methylation. There is a loading phase and then the doses are lowered after that.

I don't know what would be considered as high doses of folic acid.

OMs need niacin and B9 and taking the recommended amounts even as a maintenence dose would not be adequate. Of course recommended amounts are low. Deficiencies need to be treated with relatively high doses.

B9 prevents birth defects, can help depression and is important for methylation, among other things. I don't see any problem with folic acid even in high doses for OMs or mixed or balanced types since it is water soluable. It is a problem for UMs only.

OMs should not take 5MTHF. A small dose might not be bad but its not a good thing to take on a regular basis.

Certain supplements can methylate mercury to your brain. I know methyl B12 is one. There are others that I don't remember now; but I think 5MTHF might be a problem for some people for that reason. Most, if not all, people, regardless of having amalgams or not, will have some mercury in their body particularly later in life.

Folic acid and 5MTHF are just different; neither is superior to the other. (P5P, for example, is superior to pyridoxine.) OMs do not have a problem metabolizing folic acid.

If folic acid played a role in prostate cancer then I see that as an indication that methylation is important - maintaining efficient methylation that is. Faulty methylation (UM or OM) can lead to hypo or hypermethylation, which can turn gene expression on.

You may see B9 as a problem in high doses but I see inappropriate supplementation causing methylation problems as a serious health risk.

And I think any company that offers only one type of multi with only 5MTHF is a company that doesn't seem to understand the differences in methylation.

Edited by 4eva, 06 July 2009 - 10:44 PM.


#35 tunt01

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Posted 06 July 2009 - 11:06 PM

- got an email back from AOR.
- no other changes to the formula other than folate.

#36 jCole

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Posted 07 July 2009 - 12:02 AM

This is great news... I've been using Ortho Core for the past year and they definitely have a customer for life.

It's great they stay on top of the latest & greatest research.

#37 Redhill

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Posted 07 July 2009 - 12:19 AM

This is great news... I've been using Ortho Core for the past year and they definitely have a customer for life.

It's great they stay on top of the latest & greatest research.


Do you guys think the Essential Mix is good? I know there are lots of Ortho-Core fans but I lean towards powders...

Also, I wonder why there is no PABA in any of these?

#38 FunkOdyssey

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Posted 07 July 2009 - 04:54 AM

While you're emailing them back and forth can you inquire about the Advanced B Complex?

Logically if they are making this change to the multivitamins they would also do so for the Advanced B Complex but you never know.

#39 tunt01

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Posted 07 July 2009 - 06:29 PM

While you're emailing them back and forth can you inquire about the Advanced B Complex?

Logically if they are making this change to the multivitamins they would also do so for the Advanced B Complex but you never know.



i'm done emailing them, sorry i didn't ask for you. i just don't want to be some annoying twit who is shuttling q's and a's back and forth between this forum and the company.

i would assume they are changing their B complex, based on the comments they previously made to me. it seemed like a fundamental, broad viewpoint about folic acid vs. the active form of folate.

we should know soon enough.

#40 Redhill

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Posted 08 July 2009 - 09:50 PM

In regards to folic acid / folate, it is my understanding that PABA is an Intrinsic Component of Folic Acid.

That being the case, does the Essential Mix formula actually have PABA? The company responded that the formula did not have any PABA in it...

#41 Nietzsche

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Posted 09 July 2009 - 06:29 AM

The AOR site has the new Advanced B Formula up: http://www.aor.ca/ht...oducts.php?id=8

Looks like they did make the change, along with other minor changes...

#42 stephen_b

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Posted 09 July 2009 - 06:22 PM

The AOR site has the new Advanced B Formula up: http://www.aor.ca/ht...oducts.php?id=8

Looks like they did make the change, along with other minor changes...

Looks good. I see value in having both thiamine and benfotiamine, but at least this formulation doesn't have anything in it that I don't want to take.

#43 Nietzsche

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Posted 10 July 2009 - 03:44 AM

Looks good. I see value in having both thiamine and benfotiamine, but at least this formulation doesn't have anything in it that I don't want to take.


I agree, but I am generally pleased with the new formulation. Especially since now I'll be able to get the doses I want of benfotiamine and P5P without the rather extreme per capsule folic acid levels of the previous formula.

#44 VampIyer

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Posted 25 July 2009 - 10:20 PM

I seem to be running low on OrthoCore now.

Am I going to have to purchase another set of the older batch, or is the newer one available now?

I usually just purchase from Relentless... I'm hoping they'll stock it soon.

#45 stephen_b

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Posted 26 July 2009 - 01:50 AM

I usually just purchase from Relentless... I'm hoping they'll stock it soon.

An email I sent to RI asking about availability of the reformulated Advanced B Complex went unanswered.

#46 ShnikeJSB

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Posted 03 August 2009 - 07:34 AM

Any news/updates on this?

#47 tunt01

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Posted 03 August 2009 - 03:59 PM

i have no update to offer.

#48 ShnikeJSB

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Posted 31 August 2009 - 07:11 AM

Good LORD how long is it going to take them to bring out the new batch? Do they really go months between creating batches? I am running very low on my supplements, and really want to switch to Ortho-Core -- but not before they reformulate! ;)

#49 Zeb

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Posted 31 August 2009 - 07:47 AM

I asked about the advanced b complex last week, and it won't be out until AOR has worked through their exisiting inventory, which won't be for at least another 6 weeks (that was last week, so at least 5 now).

#50 dilenja

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Posted 01 September 2009 - 12:21 AM

I asked about the advanced b complex last week, and it won't be out until AOR has worked through their exisiting inventory, which won't be for at least another 6 weeks (that was last week, so at least 5 now).


Thought I would mention I received the reformulated Advanced B Complex with 5-MTHF from my last order through cureself.com

Cheers,

#51 Zeb

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Posted 01 September 2009 - 08:08 AM

I asked about the advanced b complex last week, and it won't be out until AOR has worked through their exisiting inventory, which won't be for at least another 6 weeks (that was last week, so at least 5 now).


Thought I would mention I received the reformulated Advanced B Complex with 5-MTHF from my last order through cureself.com

Cheers,

Thank you for the tip!! I'll place an order with them. ;)

#52 renwosing

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Posted 01 September 2009 - 08:15 AM

The prices at cureself are crazy!

#53 stephen_b

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Posted 03 September 2009 - 10:38 PM

The prices at cureself are crazy!

Advanced B compex for CAD $20.88? Hm, US $24.99 at RI, and they don't have the new formulation in. The cureself price is really good. I wonder if they get a better deal being Canadian.

StephenB

#54 renwosing

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Posted 03 September 2009 - 11:21 PM

Advanced B Complex for 20.88CAD?

It goes for 17.99USD at one site.

Go figure.

Renwosing

#55 Vultures

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 12:10 PM

Is it new aor core available from any retailers yet?

#56 ShnikeJSB

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Posted 21 September 2009 - 10:03 AM

Is it new aor core available from any retailers yet?


Still not seeing it... I've been out of my One-a-Day Men's, and I am sick of waiting. I think I'm just going to get some GNC Mega Men, unless I hear some sorta confirmation.

#57 ShnikeJSB

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Posted 22 October 2009 - 02:05 AM

Still nothing... :)

#58 ShnikeJSB

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Posted 19 November 2009 - 01:52 PM

Zip. Zilch. Nada.

I'm now giving up. :)

#59 FunkOdyssey

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Posted 19 November 2009 - 02:44 PM

If anyone has found a retailer that has the reformulated Multi-basics I would really appreciate the heads up. I don't care if they ship slowly or are more expensive. I'm tired of buying up old stock from Relentless.

Edited by FunkOdyssey, 19 November 2009 - 02:45 PM.


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#60 TheFountain

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Posted 23 December 2009 - 02:35 PM

Have AOR stopped using sucralose in their essential mix?


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