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The Coming Second Wave of Swine Flu


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#1 Medclinician

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Posted 09 July 2009 - 10:44 PM


Currently we are in the midst of a global Swine Flu Pandemic. As of June 11, 2009, Dr. Margaret Chan of WHO declared the Pandemic. This was after a considerable review by scientists in over 30 countries and with no small amount of opposition to its effect economically on countries selling pork or whose tourism trade would be damaged with a highly infectious disease present in their country.

We have been experiencing a wave of transparency concerning outbreaks and infection (the coming of the Pandemic- in which either patient zero came from Texas or from the Veracruz area in Mexico). This was followed on April 28, 2009 by the brakes being put on and less open numbers and testing throughout the month of May. Eventually it was admitted that there were possibly as in contrast with a CDC released figure of 22,000-32,000 confirmed cases, actually as much as a million or more probable cases in the United States in May were then announced. There also was data released from what was quoted in several local publications in New York that instead of the very low figures,given before, from 230,000 to 500,000 persons could be infected.

This is not really a completely new virus. In fact, all three main components (there is a dispute in terms of whether Avian is one) are endogenous to the species of bird, humans, and swine. They have been with us for quite awhile. The problem is there was something akin to a triple recombination and then a link with H1N1. This was serious in that it made it incredibly contagious. If it had the CFR (case fatality rate) of Avian- I would not be posting this and we would have no net at this point.

Swine Flu, (or novel Influenza A H1N1 2009) as it is currently spreading, can increase almost exponentially in weeks. There are examples of doubling or tripling in short periods of time. Last verified check was that 125 countries at least are infected. The number of actual infected people is unknown. Australia went from contain to sustain in which they simply stopped testing. Testing in the general population is almost unheard, and the bedrock of our prep plans rests on fatality figures which are about .5% or less.

Considering the current virus has the genetic muscle to do a second wave-must nastier hit on the planet (after playing mixing bowl in the Southern Hemisphere (Latin America- Australia). It has gone from single cases to infecting entire cruise ships and heavily infected the Victoria region in Australia and Chili in South America- some virolgist and WHO especially is a bit leary and wondering exactly what it will do within the next 60 days. It has infect all of the United States, every state, large regions of Canada, and Mexico, where it started.

IMHO and as expressed by me in other locations on the net, which will increase with the reactivation of some lost posts, we all need to seriously prep for a possible nasty Pandemic second wave.

Panicking is really impractical. So is suppression of the real figures of infection rate. So far, this does appear to be a heavy hitter mortality wise. It does seem likely it will get a little, if not a lot more tough this winter.

Dr. Chan, and I concur (in my very humble capacity as a registered medical researcher-Era Commons as well) has stated we need to take due caution to monitor this virus. It is spreading in India, the U.K., throughout Australia- well- 125 countries is pretty much throughout- the world.

If we wait until we have a known high path bug before storing food and water, before putting into place more robust plans for states and communities, we may be caught flat footed against what could prove to be the heavy hitter of the last 50 years.

It is wise to be cautious. Not fearful, not panicked. And it is wise to act upon that caution by being sure you have enough water, food, and medicine to get you through from 3-6 months at least if you need to. Waiting and watching...

Medclinician

Edited by Medclinician, 09 July 2009 - 10:51 PM.


#2 EmbraceUnity

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Posted 10 July 2009 - 04:14 AM

I have no idea if swine flu or some other pandemic will hit soon, but I certainly concur with the recommendation that everyone be prepared for any sort of systemic shocks which might occur. Be sure to have a first aid kit, food, etc. That is just good advice in general. Ideally we should work towards setting up decentralized infrastructure to withstand major shocks, such as solar power hooked up to smart grids, local food production, etc.

#3 Boondock

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Posted 16 July 2009 - 09:14 PM

Swine flu's been hanging round for a few months now, and I *still* don't see why everyone's making such a fuss out of it. Its lethality doesn't seem to be much worse (if any) than seasonal flu. Unless it mutates into something more serious, I'm pretty chilled about it.

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#4 tunt01

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Posted 16 July 2009 - 09:22 PM

Swine flu's been hanging round for a few months now, and I *still* don't see why everyone's making such a fuss out of it. Its lethality doesn't seem to be much worse (if any) than seasonal flu. Unless it mutates into something more serious, I'm pretty chilled about it.


If it's anything like 1918, it will have a severe economic impact ontop of the existing economic malaise we are experiencing globally. Even if the mortality rate is only 3-5%, a global pandemic dragging on for a 2 year period (similar to what happened in 1918-1920) where airports become barren, schools close down for weeks at a time, and people are avoiding public interaction is a devastating economic problem.

#5 Mind

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Posted 16 July 2009 - 10:03 PM

So far, this does appear to be a heavy hitter mortality wise.


Where does he/she get this opinion from? I live in Wisconsin where we have the highest rate of infection in the U.S. Approximately 6,000 confirmed through testing but most likely a multiple or order of magnitude more that have gone undiagnosed (they stopped testing a while back). Fatalities = 5. And every fatality was someone with an immune condition or sick in the hospital when they contracted it. "Heavy hitter!?!" Sounds like this person is just trying to create more mass hysteria. The fact is we do not in today's day and age yet have an effective engineered way to stop flus/colds/viruses. It is currently impossible. What we do have is nature's most exquisite, adaptable, and power virus fighting apparatus - the human immune system. Considering that this is a very mild strain of flu, wouldn't it be better to allow it to travel the world so that the maximum number of people could pick up immunity? And what about the mish-mashing morphing mutating virus scenario. That happens with nearly every virus every second of every day in every corner of the world. I have yet to see an explanation as to why this particular strain is going to mutate any faster than any other avian virus, swine virus, human virus, or combination thereof.

#6 Brainbox

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Posted 16 July 2009 - 10:13 PM

The fact that we can detect virus mutations better does not mean that we are able to predict it's impact with a confidence that's beyond doubt. We're still learning.

#7 forever freedom

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Posted 16 July 2009 - 10:13 PM

Swine flu's been hanging round for a few months now, and I *still* don't see why everyone's making such a fuss out of it. Its lethality doesn't seem to be much worse (if any) than seasonal flu. Unless it mutates into something more serious, I'm pretty chilled about it.



I agree. This is just the media trying to profit from the situation. These sort of news sell.

#8 russianBEAR

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Posted 17 July 2009 - 07:43 AM

I'm pretty sure it's a medical falsification designed to sell a lot of units of vaccine.

Remember H5N1 bird flu ? Roche pharms must've made a lickin when they put out that Tamiflu vaccine. What happened before its medical patent expired? That story went away and was forgotten. God forbid someone makes generic Tamiflu and cashes in too.

The pharm companies are just like tobacco companies - anything to make a profit off your health.

#9 niner

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 04:43 AM

I'm pretty sure it's a medical falsification designed to sell a lot of units of vaccine.

Remember H5N1 bird flu ? Roche pharms must've made a lickin when they put out that Tamiflu vaccine. What happened before its medical patent expired? That story went away and was forgotten. God forbid someone makes generic Tamiflu and cashes in too.

The pharm companies are just like tobacco companies - anything to make a profit off your health.

I don't think there are any swine flu vaccines to sell yet, although they are being worked on. I think you need to go back to the media sensationalism argument, which makes more sense. Tamiflu is a small molecule, not a vaccine. It existed before H5N1 bird flu. Is it off patent? I hadn't heard, and somewhat doubt it. Pharmas want to make a profit off of making you healthier, while tobacco companies want to make a profit from something that is addictive and makes you sicker. There's a bit of a difference.

#10 Boondock

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Posted 19 July 2009 - 01:05 PM

If it's anything like 1918, it will have a severe economic impact ontop of the existing economic malaise we are experiencing globally. Even if the mortality rate is only 3-5%, a global pandemic dragging on for a 2 year period (similar to what happened in 1918-1920) where airports become barren, schools close down for weeks at a time, and people are avoiding public interaction is a devastating economic problem.


I don't disagree with that: if it's like 1918, we're in for big trouble. I just think it's premature to assume that it *will* be like 1918. The talk of some deadly second wave seems to me mostly conjecture right now; it might happen, but it might not. Right now the virus is still relatively mild, more like a seasonal flu. Until that changes, I'm going to stay chilled out about it.

#11 russianBEAR

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Posted 19 July 2009 - 04:13 PM

I don't think there are any swine flu vaccines to sell yet, although they are being worked on. I think you need to go back to the media sensationalism argument, which makes more sense. Tamiflu is a small molecule, not a vaccine. It existed before H5N1 bird flu. Is it off patent? I hadn't heard, and somewhat doubt it. Pharmas want to make a profit off of making you healthier, while tobacco companies want to make a profit from something that is addictive and makes you sicker. There's a bit of a difference.

Pharm companies want to sell whatever will keep you on that medicine so you can buy more. If you become healthier by taking their products, don't they lose a customer? They just need to make sure they cant get sued with the substance they're selling so they make sure the side effects aren't too bad. 


Point was, Roche made a killin selling Tamiflu, then the story was conveniently swept under the rug. It was first made out to be something huge, and H5N1 was discussed on all major international conventions. Then it disappeared and cropped up 1-2 more times then just gone completely.

Same thing will happen to swine flu. If I was them I'd go for cat and dog flu which is lethal to humans. Now that's a hysteria waiting to happen. Some "esteemed scientist" should also say that it can be time-delayed so everyone gets even more scared.

Meanwhile its BANK for the companies selling stuff :-D

#12 ConcernedAirTraveler

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Posted 26 August 2009 - 09:19 PM

Currently we are in the midst of a global Swine Flu Pandemic. As of June 11, 2009, Dr. Margaret Chan of WHO declared the Pandemic. This was after a considerable review by scientists in over 30 countries and with no small amount of opposition to its effect economically on countries selling pork or whose tourism trade would be damaged with a highly infectious disease present in their country.

If we wait until we have a known high path bug before storing food and water, before putting into place more robust plans for states and communities, we may be caught flat footed against what could prove to be the heavy hitter of the last 50 years.

It is wise to be cautious. Not fearful, not panicked. And it is wise to act upon that caution by being sure you have enough water, food, and medicine to get you through from 3-6 months at least if you need to. Waiting and watching...

Medclinician

And, we need to minimize spread of infectious materials from the contents of one bag to another due to screeners not changing their gloves between searches. See recommendations on other post, earlier today:

Earier Posting

Glad to see those on the Immortality Institute taking an interest in being cautious about the possibility of a global pandemic, and want to encourage measures that will help minimize the spread of a major outbreak if one should begin.

#13 Mind

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Posted 26 August 2009 - 10:26 PM

If it's anything like 1918, it will have a severe economic impact ontop of the existing economic malaise we are experiencing globally. Even if the mortality rate is only 3-5%, a global pandemic dragging on for a 2 year period (similar to what happened in 1918-1920) where airports become barren, schools close down for weeks at a time, and people are avoiding public interaction is a devastating economic problem.


I don't disagree with that: if it's like 1918, we're in for big trouble. I just think it's premature to assume that it *will* be like 1918. The talk of some deadly second wave seems to me mostly conjecture right now; it might happen, but it might not. Right now the virus is still relatively mild, more like a seasonal flu. Until that changes, I'm going to stay chilled out about it.


I have yet to see any evidence that this man-bear-pig flu is even as deadly as the "seasonal" flu or that it will mutate and become more deadly any faster than any other virus. I am all for taking precaution, but here in the U.S. there are people talking about forced vaccinations and even starting vaccinations before the vaccine has completed safety trials. I would like to see some sort-of evidence to justify such extreme measures.

#14 niner

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Posted 26 August 2009 - 10:48 PM

If it's anything like 1918, it will have a severe economic impact ontop of the existing economic malaise we are experiencing globally. Even if the mortality rate is only 3-5%, a global pandemic dragging on for a 2 year period (similar to what happened in 1918-1920) where airports become barren, schools close down for weeks at a time, and people are avoiding public interaction is a devastating economic problem.

I don't disagree with that: if it's like 1918, we're in for big trouble. I just think it's premature to assume that it *will* be like 1918. The talk of some deadly second wave seems to me mostly conjecture right now; it might happen, but it might not. Right now the virus is still relatively mild, more like a seasonal flu. Until that changes, I'm going to stay chilled out about it.

I have yet to see any evidence that this man-bear-pig flu is even as deadly as the "seasonal" flu or that it will mutate and become more deadly any faster than any other virus. I am all for taking precaution, but here in the U.S. there are people talking about forced vaccinations and even starting vaccinations before the vaccine has completed safety trials. I would like to see some sort-of evidence to justify such extreme measures.

Who's talking about forced vaccinations? I've not heard anything about that, and it doesn't ring true. The current H1N1 flu is not particularly deadly, though it has some worrying properties regarding the people who seem to have a problem with it. I don't think there is any evidence that it will become more deadly, but there is a concern because other pandemic flus have followed that pattern. I don't know how to tell up front if it's a likely occurrence or not. I think staying chilled out about it is a great idea, but I wouldn't ignore it either. The best time to act in your own self interest is before everyone else panics, not after.

#15 Mind

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Posted 21 September 2009 - 05:05 PM

More man-bear-pig flu hysteria? Swine flu could kill millions and cause anarchy in poor countries.

#16 niner

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Posted 21 September 2009 - 09:01 PM

More man-bear-pig flu hysteria? Swine flu could kill millions and cause anarchy in poor countries.

What they are saying, that "millions could die" really hinges on a lethal mutation or recombination in the existing virus. As for panic, anarchy, etc., it already sounds like things have gotten pretty screwy in India. So some people are going to panic regardless of the facts. The article sounds a lot like a cross between panhandling and extortion; just give us 900M GBP and no one gets hurt...

#17 nancyd

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Posted 22 September 2009 - 10:58 PM

Vaccine Creators Refuse to Take H1N1 Vaccine

Edited by nancyd, 22 September 2009 - 11:00 PM.


#18 kurt9

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Posted 23 September 2009 - 03:15 AM

RussianBear is right. This swine flu is the most over-hyped bunch of hogwash I have seen in a long time. The death rate of this flu is insignificant. However, the side effects of the vaccine are not. The swine flu vaccine they have tested causes the same neurological side effect as the 1976 swine flu vaccine in about 1 out of a 1,000 recipients. In other words, you have a better chance of surviving this flu will no ill effects without the vaccine than with it.

The vaccine manufacturers make money off of this hyped up flu. In addition, the hype is spread in order to secure more funding for the various agencies such as the CDC and the UN's WHO. This is classic Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy in action.

Also, consider that the 1918 flu was avian, not swine.

There are also supplements that can boost your immune system. These include Echinacea and Astragulous, which boost production of nk cells, and Inosotal, which is a more generalized immune system stimulant. Lots of Vitamin C helps too.

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#19 niner

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Posted 23 September 2009 - 03:32 AM

The swine flu vaccine they have tested causes the same neurological side effect as the 1976 swine flu vaccine in about 1 out of a 1,000 recipients.

What is the evidence for this?




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