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17 Year Old's Regimen


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#1 FNC

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Posted 15 July 2009 - 11:16 AM


Hey everyone,

Thought I would post my regimen to get some views about it,
Share your thoughts, and by all means recommend new ones and remove the ones you don't think are necessary.

The Current Regimen

[Blackmore's] www.blackmores.com.au
» Multivitamin Supplement (No Fe/Cu)
» Omega 3 (EPA/DHA at 180mg/150mg x 2)
» Vitamin B Complex
» Vitamin C (1000 mg)
» Vitamin E (500IU) [d-alpha tocopherol - will be moving to mixed soon]
» Zinc (25mg)

[Herbs of Gold] www.herbsofgold.com.au
» R,S-Alpha Lipoic Acid (200 mg)
» Grape seed Extract
» Co-Enzyme Q10 (150mg)

[Ostelin]
» Vitamin D (1000IU)

[Nature's Own] www.naturesown.com.au
» Bilberry Extract

[Nature's Goodness/Dr Vera's Pure Innovations] www.naturesgoodness.com.au or www.dvpi.com.au
» Resveratrol (100mg)

Additional Notes

Used to take Gingko/Brahmi extract (have stopped, it was quite potent and sometimes had side effects, 3g/3g)
Brands are Australian, thus I am not sure if the quality is as good as US brands. In addition to this, it's harder to find specialized products.
Please recommend supplements to deal with sugar/high glycemic load, insulin sensitivity and ones that will help my overall general health.

Food wise: I try and eat as many wholefoods as possible, organic dark chocolate (85% or more). Unfortunately, have been eating basmati rice
almost all my life (staple food for me, alternative recommendations welcome)

Thank you :|o

Edited by Fabien, 15 July 2009 - 11:20 AM.


#2 Nietzsche

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Posted 15 July 2009 - 04:16 PM

You probably don't need CoQ10 until you're 30 or older. 17 is a bit young to supp that.

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#3 rwac

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Posted 15 July 2009 - 04:31 PM

You might want to put off the Resveratrol until you're done growing.

Resveratrol mimics calorie-restriction in some aspects, so that's probably not too good if you're growing.

I'm doubtful of lipoic acid too.

#4 kismet

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Posted 15 July 2009 - 05:00 PM

» Vitamin B Complex
» Vitamin C (1000 mg)
» Vitamin E (500IU) [d-alpha tocopherol - will be moving to mixed soon]
» Zinc (25mg)

Ho-hum? Zinc because.... *insert reason including testosteron and muscle, ignoring copper, lipid disturbances and prostate cancer risk from supplemental zinc* The same can be said for all those vitamins. It's a strange compilation. If I was cynical I'd assume you are mislead to believe that zinc will give you hyuge muscle, but then again, vitamin C and E is known to impair training adaptation.

There's a disturbing lack of vitamin K, cron-o-meter and IP6 in this regimen.

Edited by kismet, 15 July 2009 - 05:02 PM.


#5 FNC

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Posted 16 July 2009 - 01:05 AM

You probably don't need CoQ10 until you're 30 or older. 17 is a bit young to supp that.



Thanks, I often give it a miss anyway, I wouldn't think I need assistance in synthesizing ATP yet, given my age.

You might want to put off the Resveratrol until you're done growing.

Resveratrol mimics calorie-restriction in some aspects, so that's probably not too good if you're growing.

I'm doubtful of lipoic acid too.


Thank you, I take them to rejuvenate my cells and my liver. I have a bit of a sweet tooth, so I
would think it helps somewhat. I have a lot to learn, given I only leaped into this four or five
months ago.

Ho-hum? Zinc because.... *insert reason including testosteron and muscle, ignoring copper, lipid disturbances and prostate cancer risk from supplemental zinc* The same can be said for all those vitamins. It's a strange compilation. If I was cynical I'd assume you are mislead to believe that zinc will give you hyuge muscle, but then again, vitamin C and E is known to impair training adaptation.

There's a disturbing lack of vitamin K, cron-o-meter and IP6 in this regimen.


I use zinc for ensuring my immune system is in good form, also when I feel the effects of a cold coming on.
That having been said, I probably get sufficient amounts from my dietary intake, thus I may remove it completely. Thanks for your advice.

I'll look into the Vitamin K and IP6, I haven't research them well before.

#6 kismet

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Posted 16 July 2009 - 05:49 PM

I use zinc for ensuring my immune system is in good form, also when I feel the effects of a cold coming on.

The data on supra-RDA zinc and immune function is very disappointing if not completely negative. I've taken a look at the zinc & cold literature over time and even short term use of lozenges at high doses is not definitely proven to help (but it's the closest we have). Oral zinc is useless for colds, maybe it plays some role in general immune function, but this is very unlikely to play a role in everyday life, considering that our bodies are optimised to run on low'ish doses of minerals and vitamins. On the other hand, mega-doses of 100-150mg have a nice immuno-suppressive effect in the long term.

Edited by kismet, 16 July 2009 - 05:50 PM.


#7 Cyberbrain

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Posted 16 July 2009 - 06:29 PM

Imo until you're 30 just take a multi-vitamin, fish oil and eat healthy. ;)

#8 FNC

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Posted 17 July 2009 - 01:16 AM

Thanks for your opinions guys, I will definitely make some changes and amend the regimen somewhat. :-)

#9 Lufega

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Posted 17 July 2009 - 03:57 AM

I would seriously add magnesium. Magnesium. Magnesium. Also, you probably don't need ALA. Do you feel healthy? Are you showing any early signs of something being wrong??

#10 JLL

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Posted 17 July 2009 - 10:13 AM

Ho-hum? Zinc because.... *insert reason including testosteron and muscle, ignoring copper, lipid disturbances and prostate cancer risk from supplemental zinc* The same can be said for all those vitamins. It's a strange compilation. If I was cynical I'd assume you are mislead to believe that zinc will give you hyuge muscle, but then again, vitamin C and E is known to impair training adaptation.

There's a disturbing lack of vitamin K, cron-o-meter and IP6 in this regimen.


Do you recommend IP6 for everyone? I've been wondering whether I should start taking it, but the studies on iron intake and chelation are confusing. My iron intake is on the high side, however.

#11 kismet

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Posted 17 July 2009 - 01:29 PM

Do you recommend IP6 for everyone? I've been wondering whether I should start taking it, but the studies on iron intake and chelation are confusing. My iron intake is on the high side, however.

ATM I recommend consuming ~2g overall, which will be provided by diet assuming you eat enough grains and nuts. On the other hand some people need to supplement to reach those levels (low carb, paleo, low calorie, IF, fasting diets, etc). It does not chelate much if anything at those levels, but there are other benefits associated with consumption. Long term feeding in animals resulted in lower iron content in the brain and slightly lower Zn content in bones (so perhaps keeping  an eye on Zn intake is a good idea, but lowering iron might be a good idea anyway) but it's not known to produce much chelation in humans at those doses.

Edited by kismet, 17 July 2009 - 01:30 PM.


#12 nameless

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Posted 17 July 2009 - 04:56 PM

I haven't researched IP6 much, but assumed the main benefit was due to chelation, namely chelation of iron. But if chelation isn't the method in which it may prevent cancer, what is the mechanism?

I have some concern regarding chelation of necessary minerals, zinc, magnesium, etc, too. Happen to know of study somewhere in regard to longterm human use and mineral status? Or even short-term supplementation and mineral status? There is also the annoying fact that many serum tests for minerals aren't accurate.


For original poster: if you are healthy & have a decent diet, I'm not sure if you need a lot of supplements. Maybe a partial dose of a good multi + omega 3s should do it. Check D status, if low, add a D3 gel... maybe add a little K2.

Very doubtful you need CoQ10 at your age. No human data on resveratrol yet. Or at least no good human data in regard to longevity. Bilberry extract won't hurt you, but you'll get more bang for your buck by just eating frozen blueberries once in a while (or frozen bilberries). And if you do add IP6 (not sure you need to, if you eat a lot of rice), some zinc may actually not be a bad idea.

#13 kismet

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Posted 17 July 2009 - 05:30 PM

I haven't researched IP6 much, but assumed the main benefit was due to chelation, namely chelation of iron. But if chelation isn't the method in which it may prevent cancer, what is the mechanism?

The putative role of dietary iron in many diseases still remains largely unproven.

Happen to know of study somewhere in regard to longterm human use and mineral status? Or even short-term supplementation and mineral status? There is also the annoying fact that many serum tests for minerals aren't accurate.

Hundreds of millions of people eating a balanced diet consume that much IP6 or more, but I'm too lazy to look up studies.  ;)

I don't know by which mechanism it is anti-carcinogenic, but our body uses several essential IP derivatives, which are lowered if you are diet is low in IP6. IP3 for instance is an important second messenger. Perhaps they're involved in apoptosis...
IP6 associates with calcium but I think the mechanism of action is somewhat obscure, though, in a sense it is similar to bisphosphonates (increases BMD, reduces dystrophic calcification). It was also shown to lower Hcy (putative lipid lowering effects were never reproduced in humans).

#14 kismet

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Posted 20 July 2009 - 05:10 PM

I don't know by which mechanism it is anti-carcinogenic, but our body uses several essential IP derivatives, which are lowered if you are diet is low in IP6. IP3 for instance is an important second messenger. Perhaps they're involved in apoptosis...

Perhaps my guess was not that bad, but IDK if this is the therapeutic effect. http://en.wikipedia....le_in_apoptosis

Edited by kismet, 20 July 2009 - 05:11 PM.


#15 davidd

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Posted 20 July 2009 - 09:18 PM

Fabien,

Be careful with the zinc. That's one of those items on my list of "don't take too much!". :) I can't find the reference now, but I thought I read that some of the damage from too much zinc isn't reversible. This is all from memory, but I was thinking that prolonged intake over 100 mg/day was bad. You are taking 25 mg/day, so you are probably okay, but I just wanted to point it out in case you decide to take more of that supplement mix, since then you could be getting too much zinc.

Here's a quick bit of information on zinc I pulled up in a search.

...

Health Risks from Excessive Zinc
Zinc toxicity can occur in both acute and chronic forms. Acute adverse effects of high zinc intake include nausea, vomiting, loss of appetite, abdominal cramps, diarrhea, and headaches [2]. One case report cited severe nausea and vomiting within 30 minutes of ingesting 4 g of zinc gluconate (570 mg elemental zinc) [78]. Intakes of 150?450 mg of zinc per day have been associated with such chronic effects as low copper status, altered iron function, reduced immune function, and reduced levels of high-density lipoproteins [79]. Reductions in a copper-containing enzyme, a marker of copper status, have been reported with even moderately high zinc intakes of approximately 60 mg/day for up to 10 weeks [2]. The doses of zinc used in the AREDS study (80 mg per day of zinc in the form of zinc oxide for 6.3 years, on average) have been associated with a significant increase in hospitalizations for genitourinary causes, raising the possibility that chronically high intakes of zinc adversely affect some aspects of urinary physiology [80].

The FNB has established ULs for zinc (Table 3). Long-term intakes above the UL increase the risk of adverse health effects [2]. The ULs do not apply to individuals receiving zinc for medical treatment, but such individuals should be under the care of a physician who monitors them for adverse health effects.

Table 3: Tolerable Upper Intake Levels (ULs) for Zinc [2] AgeMale FemalePregnantLactating0 to 6 months4 mg4 mg 7 to 12 months5 mg5 mg 1 to 3 years7 mg7 mg 4 to 8 years12 mg12 mg 9 to 13 years23 mg23 mg 14 to 18 years34 mg34 mg34 mg34 mg19+ years 40 mg40 mg40 mg40 mg
...

Having said all that, I've found zinc (in spray form) to be a wonderful anti-viral/anti-bacterial for upper respatory infections. I have read some recent news that there is concern about some zinc nasal products damaging nasal nerve cells, so I'm restricting my personal use to throat spray rather than nasal spray going forward.

David

#16 kismet

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Posted 20 July 2009 - 10:46 PM

Fabien,

Be careful with the zinc. That's one of those items on my list of "don't take too much!". :) I can't find the reference now, but I thought I read that some of the damage from too much zinc isn't reversible. This is all from memory, but I was thinking that prolonged intake over 100 mg/day was bad. You are taking 25 mg/day, so you are probably okay, but I just wanted to point it out in case you decide to take more of that supplement mix, since then you could be getting too much zinc.

Zinc is indeed scary. Even low intakes could mess with lipids (~30mg). Here's some old tox review from 1990, not sure if its up to date: http://www.ajcn.org/...eprint/51/2/225

Edited by kismet, 20 July 2009 - 10:46 PM.


#17 nameless

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Posted 21 July 2009 - 12:08 AM

Nice zinc article. Any ideas on how to accurately test for zinc or copper status? I know this has been brought up before in various threads, but I don't know of any definitive answer.

The article mentions erythocyte Cu, Zn-superoxide dismutase as being more sensitive than plasma copper, but it hardly sounds like the sort of test a doctor would prescribe (or have any clue as to what it is)... also not sure if any regular labs could even do it.

#18 FNC

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Posted 21 July 2009 - 09:12 AM

Thanks for all the responses, I appreciate your input/knowledge and concern for my wellbeing :)

Aside from the fundamental building block substances, any recommendations on longevity oriented supplements?
i.e. in the following areas,
- Preventing mitochondrial damage/assisting with repair
- Organ cleanse (Liver, Kidney) and systemic health
- Keeping a healthy immune system/response
- Skin cleanse/repair (for skin scarring)

Thanks again

Edited by Fabien, 21 July 2009 - 09:13 AM.


#19 kismet

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Posted 21 July 2009 - 05:13 PM

- Organ cleanse (Liver, Kidney) and systemic health No cleanse. I can't understand anyone's obession with this word or this practise anyway."Cleansing" is alt-med, pseudo-scientific BS abusing people who feel guilty and "dirty". Even if we assume that "SENS would work based on a similar principle" (i.e. removing substances, broadly classified as "toxins"), there's still no comparison other than in some basic tennets of their philosophy (i.e. wanting to remove "toxic" substances, the difference is that SENS defines and targets them using scienctific principles; while alt-med sells useless snakeoil). The biggest problem is: currently no therapies exist that do what cleansing promises to do. SENS is one of those and I'm assuming you know how far away that is.

- Keeping a healthy immune system/response
- Skin cleanse/repair (for skin scarring) No cleansing, but you can certainly apply evidence-based skin care, even if it got nothing to do with cleansing.

Sun avoidance. A good, high SPF, non-comedogenic sun screen. A retinoid if you have any problems with oily skin, acne or old, non-hypertrophic scars; although, I'd use it anyway. Possibly polypodium leucotomos.

Skin care works based on prevention, we're not even close to true repair.

Edited by kismet, 21 July 2009 - 05:15 PM.


#20 FNC

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 12:57 PM

Hey everyone, thought I'd continue on from this post, as opposed to starting an entire new thread, here is my new regimen, after
taking into consideration all of your thoughts.

My New Regimen To be implemented upon analysis

[Blackmore's] www.blackmores.com.au

> Multivitamin Supplement (No Fe/Cu) http://www.blackmore...?ProductId=1979

> Omega 3 (EPA/DHA at 180mg/150mg x 2) http://www.blackmore...?ProductId=2191

> Vitamin D (1000 IU) http://www.blackmore...?ProductID=1809

> Vitamin C (1000 mg) http://www.blackmore...?ProductId=1822

> Bilberry Extract (4 x 5000mg) http://www.blackmore...?ProductId=1819

> Soya Lecithin (6 x 1200mg) http://www.blackmore...?ProductId=1847

> Magnesium + Calcium http://www.blackmore...?ProductId=1897

Please analyse; and suggest further adjustments. Since the initial post, I've removed a lot of the junky stuff
and I've kept the useful ones. I removed the zinc, over which there was great disagreement, as well as IP6,
resveratrol (as I'm still growing), ALA and CoQ10.

Thanks! :p

Edited by Fabien, 19 October 2009 - 12:58 PM.


#21 Ty Frost

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Posted 20 October 2009 - 01:17 AM

Hey Fabien,

Nice... a fellow Aussie...

Here's a few pointers to help answer your questions. At your age you have a unique opportunity to avoid some of life's slings and arrows... but also, remember that any approach has to be holistic in that it encompasses your life. I've seen plenty who eat like crap, never exercise and then believe a multivitamin a day will "fix things". Equally, I've seen people who jogged every day of their life, then were surprised that they got skin cancer and arthritis of the knees at age 40. And I've seen plenty of the most common kind, those that believe that "not taking pills" and "living a natural life" will give them the best bang for the buck - these guys tend to lead shorter active lives than either of the other two groups.

The consequence of life is death. There is no "best" way, and it's the journey that counts. I try to eat well; exercise; I have an excellent knowledge of medicine and nutrition. I also trash my body skateboarding; enjoy the occasional cigarette, and sometimes attend three-day wild parties. Like a good car, I wax and polish it - then take it for a burnout on the course. There's no point in having a long life, if you never took the time to enjoy living it. THIS APPLIES ESPECIALLY TO YOUR YOUTH, OK?

That said, here's a couple of tips on how to keep that machinery oiled and polished well:

a) Be wary of things like zinc, selenium, copper and iron. Unless you have a specific deficiency, you'll get enough from (even a bad) diet and a daily multivitamin. Trust me, you do NOT want to mess with the effects of metal poisonings. You are especially sensitive to this since you are growing.

b) One of the best way to keep your skin in good shape is to minimise (but not exclude) ultraviolet light exposure. As an Australian, and in Perth no less, you'll get a hell of a lot of UV exposure. This is the primary cause of skin ageing. However, restricting UV light altogether is a great way to promote unhealthy bacterial growth which is no good for your sikin either. So - go out in the sun, unprotected, for 5 minutes every day. Use sunscreen and cover up the rest of the time. This is a good balance.

Exfoliate your skin with a loofah or glove once a week; no more than twice a week or you'll do damage. Don't scrub too hard, either... firm pressure but not scraping. Avoid exfoliating the face with a loofah; scrub using lotions made for that purpose and NEVER rub under your eyes as this the thinnest skin on your body.

Avoid perfumes and additives in cosmetics and soaps which are irritants or in other ways toxic. A great unbiased site that compares the relative toxicity of all yoru favourite brands is at the Skin Deep Cosmetic Safety Institute at http://www.cosmetics....php?nothanks=1

Other than that, keep your skin properly hydrated. I find a great way to do this is to use a sorbolene or other moisturising lotion in the shower - i put it on, stand out of the water while i shave for 2-5 minutes to let it absorb, then briefly rinse before getting out of the shower. I find this lets my skin feels correctly moisturised without being greasy; also in the shower is a great place since the hot water stresses and dries skin by removing its protective oil layers. Whether this works for you is going to depend on your skin type and shower habits.

I avoid soaps; quite frankly there are many reasons for this but mostly because the pH balance of soaps disturbs the skin's own; also most shower gels use sodium laureth sulfate which makes great bubbles but is, ironically, a major skin irritant. I find that the lotion thing above works really well, and because the skin's own defences are left in place I also don't smell at all. I'll use an antibacterial shower gel in armpits and crotch once or twice a week, but I find I don't really ever need it. Again, may or may not work for you depending on your own body.

Aspirin is great at reducing skin cancer rates, so a low-dose, slow-release aspirin is good for people in their mid 20's and up. But DO NOT take this - teenagers who take aspirin have a small but real chance of dying from Reye's Syndrome as a result. This just goes to show how your body is different from an adult's, and so what's good for an adult may not necessarily be good for you.


c) Avoid soy products; sorry but as a guy, these are your enemy. Example - http://www.menshealt...ood_for_Men.php

d) You can take Vitamin D if you want, but as an Australian your sun exposure is probably OK. Here in Canada, it's more of an issue especially during the winter. Your multivitamin probably already contains around 400IU of vitamin D3, which is fine. Don't mega-dose; you can have too much of this thing too and while 1000-2000IU are safe and probably positive, you're getting most of this through sunlight + milk anyway. 20,000 IU and up for prolonged periods has been known to cause some very nasty and permanent problems.

e) 1,000mg Vitamin C is probably a waste; your body can metabolise less than half of that in one go, and the rest gets excreted. But it's your dollar :p

f) Preventing mitochrondrial damage is mostly environmental at your age. Resveratrol is to be AVOIDED in your case since a recent study showed resveratrol supplementation in young mice increased the risk of cancer. This makes a certain amount of sense when you think about what SIR-2 genes do. The biggest ally at this point in your life is not so much a pill, as preventing mitochondrial stress in the first place by eating a diet rich in a wide range of vegetables, low in processed carbohydrates, and rich in berries. If you like green tea, go for that too. At this point your body is growing and needs a wide variety of nutrients, a bunch of varied antioxidants, and some anti-inflammatory compounds to keep that sporting-and-exercise wear and tear down. This will pay off big as you go through life.

g) Two powerful nootropics you can have on your side are, ironically, bought not in a pill but at the local shop. Turmeric is great in all kinds of ways - look it up - but must be taken with at least 20mg piperine to make it absorb. Piperine is the active compound of black pepper, responsible for that "sharp" smell. It's also volatile which means that pre-ground pepper is useless. So take a teaspoon of tumeric, put it in a cup, freshly grind a few pinches of black pepper into it, add water, and slug it down each day. Tastes not good, but not bad either. Earthy. And good for you in all kinds of amazing ways.

BTW, turmeric intake has been linked to decreased scarring, especially purple acne scarring, so that answers another one of your questions.

Amd pinch of cinnamon has incredible blood-sugar levelling properties. Glycation caused by excessive blood sugars is one of the mainstay causes of ageing (this is why diabetics have an accelerated rate of ageing) and this helps nicely. Don't take TOO much cinnamon; common "cassia" cinnamon also contains a compound called coumarin which damages the liver in high doses (high doses being 2 grams, which is a lot). FYI the rarer "ceylon" cinnamon has no coumarin but it's almost impossible to find outside of Asia.

g) I see no problem with alpha-lipoic acid, but taken alone it's like using one person in a three-person team. The "magic trio" of ALA, ALC and NAC (alpha lipoic acid, acetyl-l-carnitine, and n-acetyl-cystein) has some major effects in combination. Ditch the other supplements in favour of this.

h) CoQ10... yeah, maybe in 8 years or so, but not really needed 'til you crest your maximum production of this. Other things will give you more bang for the buck.

i) The best thing you can take to protect your liver (apart from NAC) is milk thistle. This contains a compound called silymarin which protects against alcohol, viral and other toxin-related damage and is hugely effective at doing so. Silymarin is used in hospitals for poisonings, for example. That and a good B-complex vitamin should be all you need in this regard.


Hope this helps! Feel free to let me know if you have any other questions.

- Ty

#22 1kgcoffee

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Posted 20 October 2009 - 05:27 AM

Hey everyone, thought I'd continue on from this post, as opposed to starting an entire new thread, here is my new regimen, after
taking into consideration all of your thoughts.

My New Regimen To be implemented upon analysis

[Blackmore's] www.blackmores.com.au

> Multivitamin Supplement (No Fe/Cu) http://www.blackmore...?ProductId=1979

> Omega 3 (EPA/DHA at 180mg/150mg x 2) http://www.blackmore...?ProductId=2191

> Vitamin D (1000 IU) http://www.blackmore...?ProductID=1809

> Vitamin C (1000 mg) http://www.blackmore...?ProductId=1822

> Bilberry Extract (4 x 5000mg) http://www.blackmore...?ProductId=1819

> Soya Lecithin (6 x 1200mg) http://www.blackmore...?ProductId=1847

> Magnesium + Calcium http://www.blackmore...?ProductId=1897

Please analyse; and suggest further adjustments. Since the initial post, I've removed a lot of the junky stuff
and I've kept the useful ones. I removed the zinc, over which there was great disagreement, as well as IP6,
resveratrol (as I'm still growing), ALA and CoQ10.

Thanks! :p


Why the lecithin?

I would cut out the calcium, bilberry, lecithin and add in vitamin K. I might consider adding astaxanthin, MSM, n-acetyl-cysteine, cacao and green tea.

#23 rwac

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Posted 20 October 2009 - 05:38 AM

Hey everyone, thought I'd continue on from this post, as opposed to starting an entire new thread, here is my new regimen, after
taking into consideration all of your thoughts.

My New Regimen To be implemented upon analysis

[Blackmore's] www.blackmores.com.au

> Multivitamin Supplement (No Fe/Cu) http://www.blackmore...?ProductId=1979

> Omega 3 (EPA/DHA at 180mg/150mg x 2) http://www.blackmore...?ProductId=2191

> Vitamin D (1000 IU) http://www.blackmore...?ProductID=1809

> Vitamin C (1000 mg) http://www.blackmore...?ProductId=1822

> Bilberry Extract (4 x 5000mg) http://www.blackmore...?ProductId=1819

> Soya Lecithin (6 x 1200mg) http://www.blackmore...?ProductId=1847

> Magnesium + Calcium http://www.blackmore...?ProductId=1897

Please analyse; and suggest further adjustments. Since the initial post, I've removed a lot of the junky stuff
and I've kept the useful ones. I removed the zinc, over which there was great disagreement, as well as IP6,
resveratrol (as I'm still growing), ALA and CoQ10.

Thanks! :p


Get a softgel D3 instead of capsules. D3 softgels are way more absorbable.

I second 1kgcoffee on this, cut out the Calcium and just take the Magnesium.
K2 is pretty good too.

#24 FNC

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Posted 20 October 2009 - 12:15 PM

Thanks for the replies everyone, I enjoy reading your recommendations :-)

Ty - thank you for your very extended response, I definitely learned some new info, a couple of questions

Hey Fabien,

Nice... a fellow Aussie...

Here's a few pointers to help answer your questions. At your age you have a unique opportunity to avoid some of life's slings and arrows... but also, remember that any approach has to be holistic in that it encompasses your life. I've seen plenty who eat like crap, never exercise and then believe a multivitamin a day will "fix things". Equally, I've seen people who jogged every day of their life, then were surprised that they got skin cancer and arthritis of the knees at age 40. And I've seen plenty of the most common kind, those that believe that "not taking pills" and "living a natural life" will give them the best bang for the buck - these guys tend to lead shorter active lives than either of the other two groups.

The consequence of life is death. There is no "best" way, and it's the journey that counts. I try to eat well; exercise; I have an excellent knowledge of medicine and nutrition. I also trash my body skateboarding; enjoy the occasional cigarette, and sometimes attend three-day wild parties. Like a good car, I wax and polish it - then take it for a burnout on the course. There's no point in having a long life, if you never took the time to enjoy living it. THIS APPLIES ESPECIALLY TO YOUR YOUTH, OK?

I agree wholeheartedly with the above, I think the best approach is to do what you feel comfortable with, avoiding the absolute extremes i.e. the runner and the junk consumer, maintaining balance.

That said, here's a couple of tips on how to keep that machinery oiled and polished well:

a) Be wary of things like zinc, selenium, copper and iron. Unless you have a specific deficiency, you'll get enough from (even a bad) diet and a daily multivitamin. Trust me, you do NOT want to mess with the effects of metal poisonings. You are especially sensitive to this since you are growing.


Point taken.

b) One of the best way to keep your skin in good shape is to minimise (but not exclude) ultraviolet light exposure. As an Australian, and in Perth no less, you'll get a hell of a lot of UV exposure. This is the primary cause of skin ageing. However, restricting UV light altogether is a great way to promote unhealthy bacterial growth which is no good for your sikin either. So - go out in the sun, unprotected, for 5 minutes every day. Use sunscreen and cover up the rest of the time. This is a good balance.

Before 9:00am and after 4:00pm is the usual recommendation I hear for minimal UV exposure. Some people suggest 30 minutes a day during those times. Counter-arguments?

Exfoliate your skin with a loofah or glove once a week; no more than twice a week or you'll do damage. Don't scrub too hard, either... firm pressure but not scraping. Avoid exfoliating the face with a loofah; scrub using lotions made for that purpose and NEVER rub under your eyes as this the thinnest skin on your body.

Avoid perfumes and additives in cosmetics and soaps which are irritants or in other ways toxic. A great unbiased site that compares the relative toxicity of all yoru favourite brands is at the Skin Deep Cosmetic Safety Institute at http://www.cosmetics....php?nothanks=1


Yeah, this is one of the more controllable areas of my life which I monitor closely. I may soon move to using glutathione bar or a skin-friendly product from the health food shop.

Other than that, keep your skin properly hydrated. I find a great way to do this is to use a sorbolene or other moisturising lotion in the shower - i put it on, stand out of the water while i shave for 2-5 minutes to let it absorb, then briefly rinse before getting out of the shower. I find this lets my skin feels correctly moisturised without being greasy; also in the shower is a great place since the hot water stresses and dries skin by removing its protective oil layers. Whether this works for you is going to depend on your skin type and shower habits.

I avoid soaps; quite frankly there are many reasons for this but mostly because the pH balance of soaps disturbs the skin's own; also most shower gels use sodium laureth sulfate which makes great bubbles but is, ironically, a major skin irritant. I find that the lotion thing above works really well, and because the skin's own defences are left in place I also don't smell at all. I'll use an antibacterial shower gel in armpits and crotch once or twice a week, but I find I don't really ever need it. Again, may or may not work for you depending on your own body.


This information is useful because my brother has a history of skin irritation and had to move to using Sorbolene and the like. Perhaps I shall introduce this at home. The issue lies in the fact that it is hard to find a product that is actually free of harmful substances, a lot of them tout themselves as ‘skin friendly’ but then you check the back and there’s a cocktail of disgust, so off to do some hunting! :p

Aspirin is great at reducing skin cancer rates, so a low-dose, slow-release aspirin is good for people in their mid 20's and up. But DO NOT take this - teenagers who take aspirin have a small but real chance of dying from Reye's Syndrome as a result. This just goes to show how your body is different from an adult's, and so what's good for an adult may not necessarily be good for you.

Yeah, I’ve checked it out, but I do believe it is targeted towards an older aged population as you say. Thanks for confirming this.

c) Avoid soy products; sorry but as a guy, these are your enemy. Example - http://www.menshealt...ood_for_Men.php

There is much debate over this, but I have never been a consumer of many soy products in general, so things are fine in this department. Thanks for the link.

d) You can take Vitamin D if you want, but as an Australian your sun exposure is probably OK. Here in Canada, it's more of an issue especially during the winter. Your multivitamin probably already contains around 400IU of vitamin D3, which is fine. Don't mega-dose; you can have too much of this thing too and while 1000-2000IU are safe and probably positive, you're getting most of this through sunlight + milk anyway. 20,000 IU and up for prolonged periods has been known to cause some very nasty and permanent problems.


Point taken.

e) 1,000mg Vitamin C is probably a waste; your body can metabolise less than half of that in one go, and the rest gets excreted. But it's your dollar


I have heard this previously, and I've seen people recommend two to three 250mg supps spaced throughout the day.

f) Preventing mitochrondrial damage is mostly environmental at your age. Resveratrol is to be AVOIDED in your case since a recent study showed resveratrol supplementation in young mice increased the risk of cancer. This makes a certain amount of sense when you think about what SIR-2 genes do. The biggest ally at this point in your life is not so much a pill, as preventing mitochondrial stress in the first place by eating a diet rich in a wide range of vegetables, low in processed carbohydrates, and rich in berries. If you like green tea, go for that too. At this point your body is growing and needs a wide variety of nutrients, a bunch of varied antioxidants, and some anti-inflammatory compounds to keep that sporting-and-exercise wear and tear down. This will pay off big as you go through life.


I consume strawberries and blueberries when available, as well as other fruits, green veg and green tea, quite regularly.

g) Two powerful nootropics you can have on your side are, ironically, bought not in a pill but at the local shop. Turmeric is great in all kinds of ways - look it up - but must be taken with at least 20mg piperine to make it absorb. Piperine is the active compound of black pepper, responsible for that "sharp" smell. It's also volatile which means that pre-ground pepper is useless. So take a teaspoon of tumeric, put it in a cup, freshly grind a few pinches of black pepper into it, add water, and slug it down each day. Tastes not good, but not bad either. Earthy. And good for you in all kinds of amazing ways.


BTW, turmeric intake has been linked to decrease scarring, especially purple acne scarring, so that answers another one of your questions.

Fortunately, I am often consume turmeric as it is used generously in curries and other dishes from my native country. I will incorporate more of this, as I have already started to do so due to prior knowledge. Thanks for the tip regarding the scarring, I was unaware of this. I also supplement with Ginkgo biloba daily.

Amd pinch of cinnamon has incredible blood-sugar levelling properties. Glycation caused by excessive blood sugars is one of the mainstay causes of ageing (this is why diabetics have an accelerated rate of ageing) and this helps nicely. Don't take TOO much cinnamon; common "cassia" cinnamon also contains a compound called coumarin which damages the liver in high doses (high doses being 2 grams, which is a lot). FYI the rarer "ceylon" cinnamon has no coumarin but it's almost impossible to find outside of Asia.


Ok, I shall incorporate this into my diet, I will also attempt to find Ceylon if possible. Thanks :p This is especially important for me because I have a sweet tooth, which I am slowly overcoming, as best as I can, given the fact that it may even be genetic.

g) I see no problem with alpha-lipoic acid, but taken alone it's like using one person in a three-person team. The "magic trio" of ALA, ALC and NAC (alpha lipoic acid, acetyl-l-carnitine, and n-acetyl-cystein) has some major effects in combination. Ditch the other supplements in favour of this.


h) CoQ10... yeah, maybe in 8 years or so, but not really needed 'til you crest your maximum production of this. Other things will give you more bang for the buck.


Yep, and some studies have shown that 150mg+ is not good for cognitive function.

i) The best thing you can take to protect your liver (apart from NAC) is milk thistle. This contains a compound called silymarin which protects against alcohol, viral and other toxin-related damage and is hugely effective at doing so. Silymarin is used in hospitals for poisonings, for example. That and a good B-complex vitamin should be all you need in this regard.


I have been taking Silybum Marianium (Milk Thistle) on and off, a major reason for this is the fact that someone mentioned it is an IGF-1 inhibitor, as a result, this would not be good given the fact that I'm 17 and may still be growing. Can you confirm this?

The same goes for g) The point about ALA, ALC and NAC in unison, I believe ALC is an IGF-1 inhibitor, any adverse reaction/contraindications given that I’m still growing?

TO 1KGCOFFEE:

Why the lecithin?



I want to help promote cell membrane health, and the phosphatidylcholine from soya lecithin may help to keep the cells intact and maintain strong cellular signalling function. This is my understanding and one of which I've experienced results with, please feel free to share any further knowledge on this matter. I may be moving to a liquid form as it is much better absorbed than capsules.

I would cut out the calcium, bilberry, lecithin and add in vitamin K. I might consider adding astaxanthin, MSM, n-acetyl-cysteine, cacao and green tea.

The green tea is covered as I drink it frequently. Bilberry is to help prevent ARMD (Age Related Macular Degeneration) because I wear glasses, perhaps I should add Lutein and Zeaxanthin. I firmly believe that N-Acetyl-Cysteine can help me, but I am unsure whether it is an IGF-1 inhibitor (if it is, it may interrupt with my growth and development as I am 17) Please share further insight on this matter, thank you.

I will look into Methylsulfonylmethane, as it is the first time I hear of it. Vitamin K has been recommended multiple times and I will definitely look at incorporating it into the regimen.

Get a softgel D3 instead of capsules. D3 softgels are way more absorbable.


I have been using softgels for some time now. Ty recommended however that I not take 1000 IU daily because of the climate here in Perth. I think 1000 IU is still relatively low though, so perhaps I can still take it.

Thanks again all, your advice is greatly appreciated.

Edited by Fabien, 20 October 2009 - 12:22 PM.


#25 Pike

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Posted 22 October 2009 - 06:12 AM

i'm surprised nobody mentioned it: switch to a better omega 3! 360/300mg of epa/dha is not really enough to see a benefit. IMO, DHA is way more important than EPA to someone who's still developing. personally, i get 500/1000mg epa/dha (I'm 20 y.o.). Best omega 3 I've found is NOW Foods - DHA-500.

#26 FNC

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Posted 22 October 2009 - 06:17 AM

i'm surprised nobody mentioned it: switch to a better omega 3! 360/300mg of epa/dha is not really enough to see a benefit. IMO, DHA is way more important than EPA to someone who's still developing. personally, i get 500/1000mg epa/dha (I'm 20 y.o.). Best omega 3 I've found is NOW Foods - DHA-500.


Thanks for the info, will do.

#27 kismet

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Posted 22 October 2009 - 10:42 AM

360/300mg of epa/dha is not really enough to see a benefit.

What's the evidence behind that statement? I couldn't find any data conclusively in favour of high fish oil consumption.

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#28 Pike

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Posted 22 October 2009 - 11:04 PM

actually, you're right kismet. that was more my hipshot suggestion out of concern for ADHD development and omega-3 deficiencies (along w/magnesium & b-6). If you're eating a healthy diet (or at least one with some fish) Fabien, you probably don't need the high o-3 content supp. I, however, do use high o-3 for ADHD treatment.




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