44 replies to this topic

[niner]

Therefore, Niner and Max, can we agree on the fact that before the presence of any cancerous tumors in humans, Ferulic Acid has "anti- cancer" properties? If so, then this "almost can of worms" postings on this topic can be "put to rest".

I think the most accurate way to put it is that ferulic acid has both anti-cancer and pro-solid tumor properties, depending on the state of the patient. The "pro-solid tumor" property is based on the pro-angiogenic effect noted above, and may or may not have been specifically examined as far as I'm aware. The "anti-cancer" property might only be based on in vitro work; the only thing we've seen here is an unreferenced claim in a blog post. I'm happy to put this to rest, but don't want to see it turned into a marketing tool for a supplement maker.

Edited by niner, 02 April 2010 - 02:00 PM.

[joe57777]

Therefore, Niner and Max, can we agree on the fact that before the presence of any cancerous tumors in humans, Ferulic Acid has "anti- cancer" properties? If so, then this "almost can of worms" postings on this topic can be "put to rest".

I think the most accurate way to put it is that ferulic acid has both anti-cancer and pro-solid tumor properties, depending on the state of the patient. The "pro-solid tumor" property is based on the pro-angiogenic effect noted above, and may or may not have been specifically examined as far as I'm aware. The "anti-cancer" property might only be based on in vitro work; the only thing we've seen here is an unreferenced claim in a blog post. I'm happy to put this to rest, but don't want to see it turned into a marketing tool for a supplement maker.

Agreed Niner.....Now, I have a question that might be a not so intelligent one but maybe I am wrong. And since we were talking about a supplement that may have a "duel" and or "double agent" effect on the human body, I thought this question is appropriate in this post. Here goes: If we humans take supplements (including, of course, resveratrol) that have anticancer properties, lower our insulin resistance, lower our blood pressure, improve our defense against heart attacks, balance our testosterone and estrogen levels, as well as other many other benefits that are out there, but we may also be eating and or drinking things that are not good for us at the same time that may have a reverse effect on these health benefits we expect from these "good" supplements we take. Therefore, "at the end of the day so to speak" which substances win the battle inside our bodies? Is it the substances with the higher concentrations in our bodies at the time that ultimately win the battle that day? In other words, for example, just because we take substances that are meant to improve our insulin resistance, what if something else we eat or drink is increasing our insulin resistance? If so, does are insulin resistance go up or down that day? If we are taking a supplement that is suppose to decrease our blood pressure, but we are eating or drinking something that is trying to raise our blood pressure, which substance wins out that day? Is our blood pressure up or down at the end of that particular day?

Does anyone know where I am going with this?

[mikeinnaples]

Niner, Thanks for the clarification. But now I do need to point out something that I hear very often in many of these posts. Somebody will write in a post that he or she (we will us Bill Sardi for example or we could use John Doe for that matter) said that "the sky is falling". Then there may be a post that states that just because Bill Sardi or John Doe said that "the sky is falling" doesn't mean that the sky is falling. However, nobody ever said that Bill Sardi or John Doe personally conducted a study that determined whether or not the sky is falling. Instead what usually always means is that Bill Sardi or John Doe were referring to at least one study that confirmed that indeed "the sky is falling". We need to make sure this is clarified in our posts. Because I highly doubt that Bill Sardi would just "make something up without any factual proof to validate his comment about something. Why would Bill Sardi or anyone else well known in the supplement field want to ruin their reputation and or credibility by stating falsehoods to people? That's right, Bill or whomever would not.

The sky is falling ....reveratrol is unstable and requires special precautions. Marketing and pure crap shoved down your throat despite research proving otherwise. Unprofessional emails when questioning this fact and blatantly holding to falsehoods to push a product.

I ask: "What reputation is there to ruin?"

This is just one of many examples from the same source. Money and bullshit seem to go together quite nicely, you just need to put on the waders and slog through it to get to the reality.

[joe57777]

Niner, Thanks for the clarification. But now I do need to point out something that I hear very often in many of these posts. Somebody will write in a post that he or she (we will us Bill Sardi for example or we could use John Doe for that matter) said that "the sky is falling". Then there may be a post that states that just because Bill Sardi or John Doe said that "the sky is falling" doesn't mean that the sky is falling. However, nobody ever said that Bill Sardi or John Doe personally conducted a study that determined whether or not the sky is falling. Instead what usually always means is that Bill Sardi or John Doe were referring to at least one study that confirmed that indeed "the sky is falling". We need to make sure this is clarified in our posts. Because I highly doubt that Bill Sardi would just "make something up without any factual proof to validate his comment about something. Why would Bill Sardi or anyone else well known in the supplement field want to ruin their reputation and or credibility by stating falsehoods to people? That's right, Bill or whomever would not.

The sky is falling ....reveratrol is unstable and requires special precautions. Marketing and pure crap shoved down your throat despite research proving otherwise. Unprofessional emails when questioning this fact and blatantly holding to falsehoods to push a product.

I ask: "What reputation is there to ruin?"

This is just one of many examples from the same source. Money and bullshit seem to go together quite nicely, you just need to put on the waders and slog through it to get to the reality.

Mike, I wanted the Colts to win the Super Bowl. But unfortunately, Manning pulled of a "Brett Farve" move and threw that "easy" pick.

Anyway, I am going to take Longe****x advantage+ in about two weeks when my back-ordered supply gets here and I will tell you what positive effects "if any" that are noticeable within a few months or so. Things like more energy, good sugar levels, weight loss, chloresterol control, good blood pressure, etc. I will let you know if this is all marketing BS.

Do you think these supplements including resveratrol do nothing good? What is your opinion? Where are your opinion facts to back up your opinions? Do you think that no supplements are helpful to humans? Are you saying that people that have tried resveratrol and like it's possitive affects are not truthful?

Please let us know, we would like your opinion. That is part of what this forum is. Interaction with other people and their opinions, reports about their experiences with different supplements, and about sharing medical evidence findings and facts with one another.

[mikeinnaples]

Mike, I wanted the Colts to win the Super Bowl. But unfortunately, Manning pulled of a "Brett Farve" move and threw that "easy" pick.

Anyway, I am going to take Longe****x advantage+ in about two weeks when my back-ordered supply gets here and I will tell you what positive effects "if any" that are noticeable within a few months or so. Things like more energy, good sugar levels, weight loss, chloresterol control, good blood pressure, etc. I will let you know if this is all marketing BS.

Do you think these supplements including resveratrol do nothing good? What is your opinion? Where are your opinion facts to back up your opinions? Do you think that no supplements are helpful to humans? Are you saying that people that have tried resveratrol and like it's possitive affects are not truthful?

Please let us know, we would like your opinion. That is part of what this forum is. Interaction with other people and their opinions, reports about their experiences with different supplements, and about sharing medical evidence findings and facts with one another.

Oh, I believe you are misunderstanding me. I take resveratrol and have been for quite along time now. I used to be a customer of the brand you mentioned. However, I was pushed away from this supplier because of his unscrupulous and unprofessional behavior permanently. I then moved to Biotivia, and unfortunately (well fortunate that I realized it quickly) they were even worse. My current supplier has been my best of any supplement company to date and also the most open and honest with thier product.

[joe57777]

Mike, I wanted the Colts to win the Super Bowl. But unfortunately, Manning pulled of a "Brett Farve" move and threw that "easy" pick.

Anyway, I am going to take Longe****x advantage+ in about two weeks when my back-ordered supply gets here and I will tell you what positive effects "if any" that are noticeable within a few months or so. Things like more energy, good sugar levels, weight loss, chloresterol control, good blood pressure, etc. I will let you know if this is all marketing BS.

Do you think these supplements including resveratrol do nothing good? What is your opinion? Where are your opinion facts to back up your opinions? Do you think that no supplements are helpful to humans? Are you saying that people that have tried resveratrol and like it's possitive affects are not truthful?

Please let us know, we would like your opinion. That is part of what this forum is. Interaction with other people and their opinions, reports about their experiences with different supplements, and about sharing medical evidence findings and facts with one another.

Oh, I believe you are misunderstanding me. I take resveratrol and have been for quite along time now. I used to be a customer of the brand you mentioned. However, I was pushed away from this supplier because of his unscrupulous and unprofessional behavior permanently. I then moved to Biotivia, and unfortunately (well fortunate that I realized it quickly) they were even worse. My current supplier has been my best of any supplement company to date and also the most open and honest with thier product.

Mike, Please give us more than that. You need to explain in what way you were pushed away from a product because of "unprofessional behavior"? Such as? The ingredients are still the same in that product (which are very good if they actually contain them). Therefore, if you expect any of us to understand why you switched suppliers and for maybe some of us to consider switching with you, then you need to get more specific. Such as: did the Longe****x formula not work for you? What is the current company who's product you are now using? Why is this current formula better? Can you back up your claim? etc...

Thanks Mike.

[mikeinnaples]

Do I need to repost the examples I already mentioned?

Listen, when I email a supplier and ask why he is still promoting his product as the only stable version of resveratrol and why he is clinging to and marketing falsely, its instability ...then he has the balls to not only argue with me in an unacceptable method, but to deny the research. Well to be honest, do I need to cite any more examples? You don't hype outright lies in your marketing and aruge with people who question it. Sardi came across as a complete and total douche bag to me to be honest with you.

Regarding Biotivia: trouble getting COAs when I asked, unprofessional labelling, missing shipments, late shipments, funky odor, high emodin content as evident by my bowles, questionable source, no responses to emails. This was a while ago, and for all I know they have the best product in the world now, however, I am happy with my current supplier and I trust their product and I had enough of James Betz and the garbage he spewed in his emails when shipments didn't arrive even remotely close to on time, that I have no reason to take a look at them again.

If you want details about my experience with my current supplier, shoot me a PM and I will be happy to ellaborate.

[niner]

Mike, Please give us more than that. You need to explain in what way you were pushed away from a product because of "unprofessional behavior"? Such as? ...

Joe, reading this thread, one would get the impression that you work for Long*x. You may well just be a satisfied customer, and it's not uncommon for customers to be fiercely loyal to their chosen brand. The resveratrol industry seems to be a magnet for unscrupulous and unethical operators. One of the reasons that there is so much support for Revgenetics among posters here is that they have stood above the crowd in this regard; they don't lie, twist the science to fit their marketing ends, or spam every public forum on the internet with everything from viral marketing to outright falsehoods, unlike various of their competitors. They are also very careful about purity, which is the number one concern for most of us. I didn't sit down this morning intending to write a commercial for RG; I'm just explaining the situation in the resveratrol industry and this forum as I see it.

[joe57777]

Mike, Please give us more than that. You need to explain in what way you were pushed away from a product because of "unprofessional behavior"? Such as? ...

Joe, reading this thread, one would get the impression that you work for Long*x. You may well just be a satisfied customer, and it's not uncommon for customers to be fiercely loyal to their chosen brand. The resveratrol industry seems to be a magnet for unscrupulous and unethical operators. One of the reasons that there is so much support for Revgenetics among posters here is that they have stood above the crowd in this regard; they don't lie, twist the science to fit their marketing ends, or spam every public forum on the internet with everything from viral marketing to outright falsehoods, unlike various of their competitors. They are also very careful about purity, which is the number one concern for most of us. I didn't sit down this morning intending to write a commercial for RG; I'm just explaining the situation in the resveratrol industry and this forum as I see it.

I appreciate the explanation from Mike and the comment from Niner. But I need to clarify myself. I do Not work for Longe****x nor am I a happy customer of theirs. I took the original formula of Longe****x about a year ago when I received 2 months of free samples. I liked it because it helped me shed about 10-15 lbs which brought me down to a near ideal weight. But after the 60-day sample was used up, I didn't order anymore because I was not sure that I was getting the proper dose of Trans-Resveratrol or if Longe****x indeed had the best brand on the market. I was getting confused with all of the other brands and claims that I became frustrated. I wanted to do more heavy research on Resveratrol as well as other supplements that were out there that would maybe compliment the resveratrol. But since I was working long hours at a physical job and was maintaining that better weight, I was not spending much time researching. However, this year after the long winter season where I am not nearly as active, I had much more time to reasearch resveratrol. I discovered that Longe***x had come up with a new formula called advantage+. The reason why I like the idea of Longe****x advantage+ is because I like all of the ingredients in one pill. D3, Quercetin, hylouron, grape seed extract, etc. The resveratrol content seems to be a reasonable dose some feel is close to ideal. I like the fact that these resveratrol capsules are mico-incapsuled for better absorption and designed to be taken twice a day which would mean that the resveratrol would be in my bloodstream for a longer amount of time during the day. Therefore, I would like to think that this is a great deal all in one pill. I only want to know what is the best option for me so that I can religiously take it everyday for the least amount of money every month.

Does anyone out know of a Resveratrol formula out there that has a better formula that already has D3, quereciten, etc.? Please let me know and I will try it.

[Logan]

Mike, Please give us more than that. You need to explain in what way you were pushed away from a product because of "unprofessional behavior"? Such as? ...

Joe, reading this thread, one would get the impression that you work for Long*x. You may well just be a satisfied customer, and it's not uncommon for customers to be fiercely loyal to their chosen brand. The resveratrol industry seems to be a magnet for unscrupulous and unethical operators. One of the reasons that there is so much support for Revgenetics among posters here is that they have stood above the crowd in this regard; they don't lie, twist the science to fit their marketing ends, or spam every public forum on the internet with everything from viral marketing to outright falsehoods, unlike various of their competitors. They are also very careful about purity, which is the number one concern for most of us. I didn't sit down this morning intending to write a commercial for RG; I'm just explaining the situation in the resveratrol industry and this forum as I see it.

I appreciate the explanation from Mike and the comment from Niner. But I need to clarify myself. I do Not work for Longe****x nor am I a happy customer of theirs. I took the original formula of Longe****x about a year ago when I received 2 months of free samples. I liked it because it helped me shed about 10-15 lbs which brought me down to a near ideal weight. But after the 60-day sample was used up, I didn't order anymore because I was not sure that I was getting the proper dose of Trans-Resveratrol or if Longe****x indeed had the best brand on the market. I was getting confused with all of the other brands and claims that I became frustrated. I wanted to do more heavy research on Resveratrol as well as other supplements that were out there that would maybe compliment the resveratrol. But since I was working long hours at a physical job and was maintaining that better weight, I was not spending much time researching. However, this year after the long winter season where I am not nearly as active, I had much more time to reasearch resveratrol. I discovered that Longe***x had come up with a new formula called advantage+. The reason why I like the idea of Longe****x advantage+ is because I like all of the ingredients in one pill. D3, Quercetin, hylouron, grape seed extract, etc. The resveratrol content seems to be a reasonable dose some feel is close to ideal. I like the fact that these resveratrol capsules are mico-incapsuled for better absorption and designed to be taken twice a day which would mean that the resveratrol would be in my bloodstream for a longer amount of time during the day. Therefore, I would like to think that this is a great deal all in one pill. I only want to know what is the best option for me so that I can religiously take it everyday for the least amount of money every month.

Does anyone out know of a Resveratrol formula out there that has a better formula that already has D3, quereciten, etc.? Please let me know and I will try it.

Umm, aren't most of us taking vitamin D3 anyway? And I've already read about several people experiencing joint and muscle stiffness when taking quercetin with resveratrol. And hasn't it been established that quercetin is most likely not necessary for maximum absorption and benefit?

You really do sound like someone that works for Longevinex.

[joe57777]

Mike, Please give us more than that. You need to explain in what way you were pushed away from a product because of "unprofessional behavior"? Such as? ...

Joe, reading this thread, one would get the impression that you work for Long*x. You may well just be a satisfied customer, and it's not uncommon for customers to be fiercely loyal to their chosen brand. The resveratrol industry seems to be a magnet for unscrupulous and unethical operators. One of the reasons that there is so much support for Revgenetics among posters here is that they have stood above the crowd in this regard; they don't lie, twist the science to fit their marketing ends, or spam every public forum on the internet with everything from viral marketing to outright falsehoods, unlike various of their competitors. They are also very careful about purity, which is the number one concern for most of us. I didn't sit down this morning intending to write a commercial for RG; I'm just explaining the situation in the resveratrol industry and this forum as I see it.

I appreciate the explanation from Mike and the comment from Niner. But I need to clarify myself. I do Not work for Longe****x nor am I a happy customer of theirs. I took the original formula of Longe****x about a year ago when I received 2 months of free samples. I liked it because it helped me shed about 10-15 lbs which brought me down to a near ideal weight. But after the 60-day sample was used up, I didn't order anymore because I was not sure that I was getting the proper dose of Trans-Resveratrol or if Longe****x indeed had the best brand on the market. I was getting confused with all of the other brands and claims that I became frustrated. I wanted to do more heavy research on Resveratrol as well as other supplements that were out there that would maybe compliment the resveratrol. But since I was working long hours at a physical job and was maintaining that better weight, I was not spending much time researching. However, this year after the long winter season where I am not nearly as active, I had much more time to reasearch resveratrol. I discovered that Longe***x had come up with a new formula called advantage+. The reason why I like the idea of Longe****x advantage+ is because I like all of the ingredients in one pill. D3, Quercetin, hylouron, grape seed extract, etc. The resveratrol content seems to be a reasonable dose some feel is close to ideal. I like the fact that these resveratrol capsules are mico-incapsuled for better absorption and designed to be taken twice a day which would mean that the resveratrol would be in my bloodstream for a longer amount of time during the day. Therefore, I would like to think that this is a great deal all in one pill. I only want to know what is the best option for me so that I can religiously take it everyday for the least amount of money every month.

Does anyone out know of a Resveratrol formula out there that has a better formula that already has D3, quereciten, etc.? Please let me know and I will try it.

Umm, aren't most of us taking vitamin D3 anyway? And I've already read about several people experiencing joint and muscle stiffness when taking quercetin with resveratrol. And hasn't it been established that quercetin is most likely not necessary for maximum absorption and benefit?

You really do sound like someone that works for Longevinex.

I am not someone who works for Longe****x. As far as joint pain, I have heard that joint pain was experienced with higher doses of Resveratrol like around and over 500mg with or without quercetin. This info was posted right here in this forum. Also you mentioned D3 "aren't most of us taking D3 anyway?" Yes, that may be true that many of us take vitamin D3. However, D3 is just one of the many other ingredients in Longe****x. What about all of those other good ingredients that are combined conveniently into one pill? Please, if you can tell me a better way to get the best combination of supplements together other than in one pill with Longe****x that will benefit a man over 50 and not cost me more money to do so, by all means let me know and I will do it. But where are your facts. Show me a reliable source that states that the combination of 100mg of trans-resveratrol and 25mg of quercetin causes joint pain. Lastly, did you not say that you used to take Longe****x? Did it give you joint pain? In fact, I thought I heard somewhere in this forum that quercetin prevents resveratrol from breaking down in the liver.

[Logan]

Why don't you just go with Longevinex and leave it at that? It seems like you are convinced that there is not a better option out there, as far as you know, so just go with it. This thread is becoming pointless.

[joe57777]

Why don't you just go with Longevinex and leave it at that? It seems like you are convinced that there is not a better option out there, as far as you know, so just go with it. This thread is becoming pointless.

No, seriously if someone has a better formula or regimen please let me know. I just think Longe****x makes sense. I certainly do not think this thread is worthless. I thought we are all suppose to help one another here in this forum? I am only using Longe****x as an example or a "starting point". From here, then I thought maybe someone could come up with something better and the reason why. Or even about the same but maybe cheaper, ect...

In other words, if someone cannot prove that there is a better choice than Longe****x and be able to back it up with some substantial legitimate evidence, then I will go with it. But all you have to do is convince me otherwise and I will go with your recommendation instead.

Now does that sound like some that works at Longe****x?

[niner]

Now does that sound like some that works at Longe****x?

Umm, yeah. A better question might be can anyone provide substantial evidence that the long*x formula is better than anything else? According to its Supplement Facts, 2 capsules of Long*x A+ contain 100 mg micronized resveratrol, 1000 IU of vitamin D, and unspecified quantities of GSE, quercetin, ferulic acid, cocoa extract (described as "theobromine", which is troubling since that's not the same thing as "cocoa extract", it's a purified compound found in cocoa; so which is it?), GTE, IP6, and hyaluronan. There's nothing wrong with any of these compounds, other than the confusing definition of the cocoa extract. I already use some of these, but I am paying less money in total and getting well defined products in bioavailable formulations. Are there amazing synergies when these compounds are combined in a single pill in these precise dosages (whatever they might be)? The synergy that I worry the most about is that they are synergistic in their ability to remove money from your wallet, relative to the same compounds bought at iherb. But maybe I'm wrong about that and this is a really good deal; it's just a concern. The only synergy I'm aware of is quercetin's purported ability to inhibit one of the enzymes that conjugates resveratrol, which should result in at least somewhat improved bioavailability. Sardi claims a "synergy" between resveratrol and vitamin D. I dunno. Maybe there are some others that are less well known; perhaps you could shed some light there. By and large, this looks like an anti-aging cocktail based in part on Mr. Sardi's own unique hypothesis about the true cause of aging. It would be nice to at least know how much of each compound you get; is there enough lutein to be useful? I take 20mg/d. Sardi has done a nice job of getting his products studied by scientists in some interesting contexts. I've not seen any straight-up comparisons of Long*x products with other resveratrol formulations, so that is a question mark. If you want to go with the Adv+ product, it's $65 a month. It's convenient, but I would rather use individual products so that I knew what I was getting and could be sure that I was getting a therapeutic quantity of each. I think I could either save money or get a better result, maybe even both.

[joe57777]

Now does that sound like some that works at Longe****x?

Umm, yeah. A better question might be can anyone provide substantial evidence that the long*x formula is better than anything else? According to its Supplement Facts, 2 capsules of Long*x A+ contain 100 mg micronized resveratrol, 1000 IU of vitamin D, and unspecified quantities of GSE, quercetin, ferulic acid, cocoa extract (described as "theobromine", which is troubling since that's not the same thing as "cocoa extract", it's a purified compound found in cocoa; so which is it?), GTE, IP6, and hyaluronan. There's nothing wrong with any of these compounds, other than the confusing definition of the cocoa extract. I already use some of these, but I am paying less money in total and getting well defined products in bioavailable formulations. Are there amazing synergies when these compounds are combined in a single pill in these precise dosages (whatever they might be)? The synergy that I worry the most about is that they are synergistic in their ability to remove money from your wallet, relative to the same compounds bought at iherb. But maybe I'm wrong about that and this is a really good deal; it's just a concern. The only synergy I'm aware of is quercetin's purported ability to inhibit one of the enzymes that conjugates resveratrol, which should result in at least somewhat improved bioavailability. Sardi claims a "synergy" between resveratrol and vitamin D. I dunno. Maybe there are some others that are less well known; perhaps you could shed some light there. By and large, this looks like an anti-aging cocktail based in part on Mr. Sardi's own unique hypothesis about the true cause of aging. It would be nice to at least know how much of each compound you get; is there enough lutein to be useful? I take 20mg/d. Sardi has done a nice job of getting his products studied by scientists in some interesting contexts. I've not seen any straight-up comparisons of Long*x products with other resveratrol formulations, so that is a question mark. If you want to go with the Adv+ product, it's $65 a month. It's convenient, but I would rather use individual products so that I knew what I was getting and could be sure that I was getting a therapeutic quantity of each. I think I could either save money or get a better result, maybe even both.

Fair enough Niner, I will look into that.