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SI Conservatives vs SI Progressives


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#1 PaulH

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Posted 28 February 2004 - 09:17 AM


Is it possible, or more precisley probable under normal evolutionary logic, that super-advanced beings, having lived millions of years and who were the first uploads on their planet, to eventually lose ALL memory of every having been anything but a cosmic immortal?

For example, we easily see that our conscious brains at least have no memory of being anything other than a human. The only thing immortal in us is our evolving DNA informational structure. Nearly everything else has been shredded over the entropic aeons. We have no memory of being hominids, of apes, shrews, reptiles, fungus, bacteria. If we do, that information seems to be hidden from our conscious minds. We have progeny recapitulating ontogeny, so there is some "memory" of our evolutionary past, but not much.

Could this same "shredding" occur as we travel the cosmos, absorbing zettabytes of data, but coming to a point, perhaps as often as every 10,000 years or so, where the amount of novelty is so great that we can't absorb it all within the limits of our computronium memory banks? So the slightest sacrifices are made in memory somewhere else, including memory of once being a pre-singularity mortal.

If this was the case, we would have the same process as DNA replicating itself all over again, except this time the DNA is the sum-collection of all the zettabytes of data that makes the entity what it is, and like DNA mutating with time, so would this zettabyte entities information-sum. It's storage capacity continues to increase, but not as fast as the amount of novelty it is processing, with the result of "death" for the older parts of it, like a snake shredding its skin.

If this is how it turns out to be, then we could say that we, the people we are today, will at some point die. Some have argued that this dying occurs now anyway. A little bit each day, we loose a little of our old selves, and gain a slightly new self upon waking. And this happens because of our memory loss, and limits to what we can keep conscious in our minds. Although the limits of these cosmic immortals would could be trillions of zettabytes, it might still not be enough after a millions years of living.

I think the answer will depend entirely on the entity. I think it's always possible to generate more novelty than their storage capacity to hold it. We can do that now, if we really wanted, although these days more and more people are NOT deleting stuff from their computers because storage is increasing faster than we can fill them up. Could this change, or even reverse in the far future?

If it is, then we have this scenario. Those SI collectives who chose novelty over memory evolve quicker, but loose a bit of wisdom from ages past. We can call this group the progessives. The other SI-group gives storage of older bits priority over aquiring new ones. We can call this group the conservatives. If our post-singularity selves follow a diaspora scenario, then over time the universe would have two extremes on a spectrum - progressives on one end and conservatives on the other, with all other SI collectives in between. Then again, their could be a libertarian upwinger SI-collective which has managed to simultaenously maximize their novelty absorbtion AND keep all their memories!! [lol]

Edited by planetp, 28 February 2004 - 09:50 AM.


#2 Bruce Klein

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Posted 28 February 2004 - 09:39 AM

To be successful in preserving continuance, an entity would need to know past events in order to plan for future problems. Humans have this to a degree. For example, humans dig in the dirt on archaeological quests and spend lots of time modeling risks (mostly short-term = less than 10yrs = weather patterns, stock markets, economic trends, company competitors, death rates, health risks, bio-hazards, etc)

Therefore, I think super intelligent entities would keep historical data handy. Yet through a hierarchy, less important historical information to survival would fall in scale.

Interestingly, I see humans as very reactionary to events, which happen in immediate time frame of near history. Once a catastrophe happens, the event is blazon upon human memory and action to mitigate future such events swings the pendulum out of whack. For example, 911 terrorism alert vs a strike from asteroid is way overdone. Impact from a large near earth asteroid (NEA's) would, of course, be way more damaging than a plane crash.

ImmInst's Threat To Life Council is working toward solutions.

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#3 MichaelAnissimov

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Posted 28 February 2004 - 07:51 PM

Interesting thoughts! If future SIs choose to "let go" of their memories of the past, then I'm sure it will be for good reasons. Even if SIs do not keep local copies of all their memories, then the possibility of a communal database for "plugging into" the past might allow the convenient preservation of old memories without too much hassle. Of course, this all depends on how SIs will view their older memories... I certainly see the possibility of all of society eventually going the progressive route, although it can be very hard to judge these things in advance. ;)

One thing to point out here is that memories always represent an extreme distillation of the original perceptual data that they represent. Otherwise, it would take a massive amount of storage space to record every bit of incoming data. Rather than discarding old memories, SIs might simply choose to modify the algorithm responsible for abstracting memories from experiences as the situation dictates. Humans are currently at an arbitrary point between storing every bit of incoming information and holding very tiny amounts of it - hard to say where SIs will choose to go from here.

Your analogy with DNA is interesting. Sometimes I use the word "vemes" to refer to "virtual memes"; post-Singularity entities and ideas flowing and recombining in a computationally complex, energetically frothing sea of information and novelty. John Smart writes,

"But in what may be the most interesting and profound observation, there is now good evidence that technological systems enjoy a multi-millionfold increase in their speeds of replication, variation, operation (interaction/selection), and evolutionary development by comparison to their biological progenitors. Many of these speedup factors appear to range between 1-30 million for higher order processes, with a proposed "average" of 10 million (electrochemical vs. electronic communication speeds)."

If 10 million is the average speedup for phase transitions, then it appears that we might be undergoing dozens or hundreds of such transitions in the post-Singularity future... whether or not we eventually run into physical limits.




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