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Suggestion on popularizing SENS for Aubrey


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#1 31stCentury

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Posted 14 August 2009 - 04:37 PM


To get straight to the point of my post -- Curing skin wrinkling of the aged will be a far more effective attention-grabbing strategy for SENS than the current strategy of research aimed at extending the life of mice.

Let me explain my belief for such a plan:

At the risk of stating the obvious, women (mis)spend a lot of money, $160 billion-a-year to be exact(!), encompassing make-up, skin and hair care, fragrances, cosmetic surgery, etc. Americans spend more each year on beauty than they do on education, according to the same economist article. Beauty is arguably the NUMBER ONE priority for a lot of people. That alone will help us graner more donations.

The penetration of nationally-aired women's shows (which devote a big portion of air-time on beauty anti-wrinkle creams, etc) on American TV is quite large. Aubrey could do quite well donation-wise by giving on-topic publicity to SENS in such popular shows. He could come back again and again to give updates and garner more publicity.

The other big advantage to supporting the "skin-wrinkle" strategy is that there is not a knee-jerk trance that we will have to fight against. A big portion of our society is deperately demanding anti-aging skin products and have the wallets (or purses) to back it up! This new strategy would be like "preaching to the choir".

Finally, I think that a peer-reviewed before-and-after picture of an eighty year old woman (let's say) with no wrinkles on the cover of Time would be such a visceral, emotionally powerful incentive for SENS, much more so than a mice with a caption underneath saying it broke a longevity record for mice -- because there are no numbers to interpret, no subjective calculations, the proof of a direct breakthough so emotionally obvious, there needs no one to explain what it means.

Edited by 31stCentury, 14 August 2009 - 04:52 PM.


#2 castrensis

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Posted 15 August 2009 - 11:00 AM

Not to poo-poo your idea, but skin rejuvenation's already a big business with quite a tool chest of dermal fillers, botox, broadband light treatments, &c. With a little lift & laser resurfacing even folks who look very old can see significant improvements in the appearance of youth. What's more difficult is to visually depict the substance of negligible senescence.

#3 31stCentury

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Posted 15 August 2009 - 03:12 PM

Not to poo-poo your idea, but skin rejuvenation's already a big business with quite a tool chest of dermal fillers, botox, broadband light treatments, &c. With a little lift & laser resurfacing even folks who look very old can see significant improvements in the appearance of youth. What's more difficult is to visually depict the substance of negligible senescence.


Despite the large "tool chest" used in cosmetics, I'm not so sure that I agree with the statement that "even folks who look very old can see significant improvements". A quick search though Google Images of current hollywood celebs who are past their physical prime (the ones most likely to use the cosmetic products) and comparing their age with others of the same age, yeilded, to my judgement very non-significant skin rejuvanence. I could still guess what their age was within a 5-10 year range in even the best cases of improvement. Which, if you consider the fact that they are probably stars because of good genes in the first place, doesn't help with the strength of the case for their improvement. None of them could be said to have rejuvenated to a much younger looking person, say someone who is around 21 years old. Show me a Hollywood personality in their middle ages or past (let alone the 80 year old woman that I used as an example in my first post) that looks like they are in their 20's, then I'll gladly conceed that current cosmetic tech is good enough, and my idea about "wrinkleSENS" (if you will) is not worth pursuing.

Edited by 31stCentury, 15 August 2009 - 03:15 PM.


#4 brokenportal

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Posted 15 August 2009 - 06:21 PM

So, are you saying that curing skin wrinkling might be light a lighter form of robust mouse rujevenition and mprize stuff?

Maybe, maybe stopping skin wrinkling is another good tool. Robust Wrinkle Rejuvenation...

Remember though, although those would be hard hitting tools to weild if we had them, informing people also works. Many of us are finding that people arent in a pro aging trance as much as they are just un informed. What happens is that a lot of us know that people are seeing the articles about this, and ads for the conferences and stuff, and we are wondering why people arent supporting this more. "Its the damn pro aging trance" many of us say. Thats not exactly it though. People dont beleive stuff just because they heard about something this big once or twice. They need to hear about it mulitiple times from multiple sources that they view as at least fairly credible before they begin to beleive it, in many cases.

It seems to me you have a good idea here. Besides that, that brings up a good target area. Im going to add this into different target crowd mixes. Just sending ads for the cause in conjunction with or near anti wrinkle ads will get through.

#5 31stCentury

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 02:59 AM

So, are you saying that curing skin wrinkling might be light a lighter form of robust mouse rujevenition and mprize stuff?

I would certainly say that. Sucessfully demonstrating any one of these two rejuvenation strategies would strengthen the case for SENS; however, with one important distinction between the two efforts: a skin wrinkle cure could be sold to the general public and make untold billions for further SENS research.

Maybe, maybe stopping skin wrinkling is another good tool. Robust Wrinkle Rejuvenation...

Remember though, although those would be hard hitting tools to weild if we had them, informing people also works. Many of us are finding that people arent in a pro aging trance as much as they are just un informed. What happens is that a lot of us know that people are seeing the articles about this, and ads for the conferences and stuff, and we are wondering why people arent supporting this more. "Its the damn pro aging trance" many of us say. Thats not exactly it though. People dont beleive stuff just because they heard about something this big once or twice. They need to hear about it mulitiple times from multiple sources that they view as at least fairly credible before they begin to beleive it, in many cases.


Exactly! I'm arguing that it's highly probable that an anti-wrinkle breakthough that makes an 80 year old person look as if they are only around 21 years, would garner an almost non-stop repetition in the public airwaves and magazines, thereby, helping our case. Sure, "6 year old mice" would hit the news, but it would not be an incessant converage by the media. After a few days, with no repetition, the public will loose focus. Many people who aren't scientifically inclined (aka most Americans) will probably not even know about the mice, or even remember it well even for more than a few days due to the lack of daily reminders. How many people in the general public are aware of recent biotech advances, for example, the work on iPS cells, or demonstrations of the great pluripotency of hematopoietic stem cells?

On the other hand, a sucessful wrinkleSENS will get the initial coverage, plus the constant coverage of beauty shows, which are apparently on from early morning to mid-day -- everyday, filling attention grabbing air-time -- and magazines. The hosts will say "Sure, these other products are nice but if you want the best, ladies get wrinkleSENS! Oh, and free cars for everyone in our audience because I'm so happy I dont look old." Beauty stores all over the malls and shopping plazas will display large banners saying they sell by-and-large the most effective anti-wrinkle product ever developed -- wrinkleSENS -- at their store. Futher repetition. No one will want to look older than their grandma or her schoolmates! They will hear about it and buy it. The Economist article I posted in the first post said that Americans spend $160 billion every year on beauty. That's a lot of money on products that deliver only very modest rejuvenation by my judgement. Imagine how many billions more people will spend on a sucessful anti-wrinkle treatment that makes the user appear to be only 21 years old! With a sucessfully commercialized wrinkleSENS product, Aubrey's current wildest dreams about immaculate funding will seem to be mere glitzy breadcrumbs. Imagine how far SENS could go, if SENS would fund itself like it was a fortune 500 company!

If wrinkleSENS is a success, we could even increase the M-Prize by several orders of magnitude!

It seems to me you have a good idea here. Besides that, that brings up a good target area. Im going to add this into different target crowd mixes. Just sending ads for the cause in conjunction with or near anti wrinkle ads will get through.


Thank you! Let's hope others view this strategy as an important part of boosting SENS too!

Edited by 31stCentury, 16 August 2009 - 03:14 AM.


#6 castrensis

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 06:43 AM

But aren't there people working nonstop on wrinkle elimination due to the immense amount of money involved? How would diverting time & money from life extension to youthful appearance extension affect the former? Wouldn't that just turn SENS into another project catering to the vanity of the masses rather than the urgent need to stop the relentless degradation of the organism? Shouldn't wrinkle elimination be a product of SENS success?

Perhaps more realistically we could develop a computerized projection of how an eighty year old person would appear when SENS succeeds, keeping the focus firmly on SENS while still indulging the vanity of the populace.

#7 31stCentury

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 12:54 PM

But aren't there people working nonstop on wrinkle elimination due to the immense amount of money involved?

Yes, probably quite a few. However, I could also ask, why bother with WILT when there are many other well-funded cancer research and experiments going on? SENS has a "tool chest" of allotopic expression, glycoSENS, lysoSENS, etc that the other projects probably think is too big and complex to even dream about. Isn't one of the reasons we are supporting SENS is because we think it is a more scientifically hopeful way of answering challanges compared to the current myopic research strategies employed by other projects?

How would diverting time & money from life extension to youthful appearance extension affect the former?

I'm arguing that a blossoming wrinkleSENS treatment will help support the rest of SENS through the vash cashflow it will bring in. Due to the vast monetary effect, the successful conclusion of SENS will be realized much sooner.

Wouldn't that just turn SENS into another project catering to the vanity of the masses rather than the urgent need to stop the relentless degradation of the organism?

I don't believe the choice is either/or. I think that with this strategy, one part of SENS (wrinkleSENS) will cater to the masses' vanity while that same part of SENS will provide multi-billion dollar funds to further research into the other, life-extending, parts of SENS. As I reasoned in my previous post, a prosperous wrinkleSENS will have the ability to increase the M-prize by many orders of magnitude.

Shouldn't wrinkle elimination be a product of SENS success?

Aurguably, but I can also see it could just be the other way around. Given the potential of generating funds by a fruitful wrinkleSENS, I'd argue that SENS' success will be the biggest product of wrinkleSENS's realization. SENS will be able to do very big research much earlier through the contributions of wrinkleSENS. Many people often say in this board about how great it would be if the government was spending a tiny portion of the Iraq war funds on interventional biogerentology. Well, I say, here is a chance to make our own money, and use it on our own discretion like other sucessful companies, to usher in a technological revolution.

Perhaps more realistically we could develop a computerized projection of how an eighty year old person would appear when SENS succeeds, keeping the focus firmly on SENS while still indulging the vanity of the populace.

Couldn't hurt, but I think a model will not help SENS as much as wrinkleSENS will help it. That is because the publicity of wrinkleSENS will keep the focus of the public on a single easily understandable target. SENS publicity currently doesn't single-mindedly focus (or really even detail) the anti-wrinkle benefits to the public. It's about indefinite life extention, a concept that many people think is too sci-fi, and often times isn't greeted with too much enthusiasm. Why raise the public's defenses when we can just go with the flow? WrinkleSENS, will be different -- it will be conceptually less revolutionary, and therefore, be greeted by the public with open arms.

#8 John Schloendorn

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 05:30 PM

Sure, if it was that easy. Unfortunately it isn't. The appearance of old skin is caused jointly by all kinds of different damage -- like stem cell loss, senescent cell accumulation, crosslinking, loss of fat and muscle under the skin, lipofuscin build-up, (probably all 7!). So somebody who can reverse all that will certainly have a great cosmetic market if there are still any island nations without FDA left at that time. But they will also not need it -- they will be nearly done with implementing SENS anyway.

#9 31stCentury

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 10:09 PM

The appearance of old skin is caused jointly by all kinds of different damage -- like stem cell loss, senescent cell accumulation, crosslinking, loss of fat and muscle under the skin, lipofuscin build-up, (probably all 7!).


Curing skin wrikles may well require all 7 SENS strategies to conquer, but I counted only 4 in your post -- loss of fat and muscle cells probably falls under the jurisdiction of RepleniSENS (along with "stem cell loss" in your list) right? We will also not need to implement the very daunting task involved in WILT since we're not trying to stop skin cancer. So, what other potential biological challenges do we face with wrinkleSENS?

One thing to keep in mind is that wrinkleSENS doesn't have to deliver a perfect treatment initially. It just has to be as good (but hopefully much better) a treatment as other commercially avaliable products at the time for us to be able to generate funding via the treatment. Based on my reading on this topic, breaking dermal extracelluar matrix collegen and elastin related AGEs via glycoSENS would probably confer the greatest visible benefits, but that's a technical issue for the researchers to focus on. Implementation of wrinkleSENS would keep a single-minded focus on the challenge of curing wrinkles, and incremental success here will provide immense funds for other areas of SENS.

Edited by 31stCentury, 16 August 2009 - 10:10 PM.


#10 kismet

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 10:23 PM

I don't know what all the fuss is about? The current project we try to fund (see big donate button on top of the board), actually has (or might have) implications for skin rejuvenation, assuming it works out as planned & we're lucky. Although, I am sure using the laser was not a conscious effort to target wrinkling.

#11 Ghostrider

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 03:57 AM

Finally, I think that a peer-reviewed before-and-after picture of an eighty year old woman (let's say) with no wrinkles on the cover of Time would be such a visceral, emotionally powerful incentive for SENS, much more so than a mice with a caption underneath saying it broke a longevity record for mice -- because there are no numbers to interpret, no subjective calculations, the proof of a direct breakthough so emotionally obvious, there needs no one to explain what it means.


I agree, that would have a huge impact. I think what will really get people interested in life extension is when there are therapies on the market and people they know start doing them because no one wants to be left behind or at a disadvantage. Those same people who claim that aging is a natural process would jump in line once others that they know start undergoing anti-aging treatment. I think we will see life-extension take off once the first good treatment (a treatment with an immediately tangible benefit) comes to market.

#12 Ben Simon

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Posted 24 October 2009 - 08:17 PM

I agree that dramatic skin rejuvenation would change the world.

Imagine walking down the street and not being able to tell how old someone is by virtue of how they look. Just think what a fundamental affront that would to the status quo. How could anyone remain complacent about aging once chronological age and appearance are no longer correlated?

I think those who are expecting a cultural revolution on the basis of extended mouse life-span may wind up disappointed. Skin aging on the other hand? It would be impossible to ignore the publicity. It would be one of the most widely publicised news stories in history, and every young looking person in the world (henceforth rendered to be of indeterminate age) would from that moment on become a banner advertising SENS to every person they ever meet.

I hope we get there soon, and I'd be interested to hear anyone's thoughts on timelines. I've been asking for a long time actually, but rarely hear any answers. People seem willing to speculate about RMR, but not about skin rejuvenation. ...Strange.

Kismet, how might Nason's laser work rejuvenate the skin? Are we just talking about sun spots? Or are there other implications?

#13 robomoon

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 11:14 PM

All the fuss about wrinkles is good because treatment of skin offers important benefits. Extraction from a TimesPeople blog article about comparison of facial wrinkles: Twin research is especially useful in the study of aging because twins are “genetically programmed’’ to age the same way, said study author Dr. Bahman Guyuron, chairman of the department of plastic surgery at the University Hospitals of Cleveland and Case Western Reserve University. Resource: Twins and the Wrinkles of Aging http://well.blogs.ny...inkles-of-aging by Tara Parker-Pope, February 5, 2009.

Regarding twins, there's another insightful TimesPeople blog article: DNA Isn’t Destiny, by Tara Parker-Pope, September 24, 2007. The genetic variants linked to traits (obesity, insulin resistance and high cholesterol) have relatively small effects, said Nicole Souren, lead author of a twin study published in the journal Diabetologia.

This quick observation of twin research on wrinkles already reveals much. Even if a viable difference in the genetic traits of older mice promoted by SENS can be crucial in terms of longevity, it doesn't guarantee the big success in ending aging. Only greater genetic variants in humans, and therefore also the comparison of facial wrinkles versus smooth skin, will lead to the real anti-aging breakthrough.

I don't know what all the fuss is about? The current project we try to fund (see big donate button on top of the board), actually has (or might have) implications for skin rejuvenation, assuming it works out as planned & we're lucky. Although, I am sure using the laser was not a conscious effort to target wrinkling.



#14 31stCentury

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Posted 22 November 2009 - 02:52 AM

Anyone care to guess how much money you think that SENS could make in one year if SENS could make an anti-wrinkle treatment that is only slightly more effective than the then-current generation of wrinkle treatments?

Now imagine that amount of money that such a treatment could bring in for all the non-wrinkle-related reasearch that Aubrey and the rest of us want to support. Why isn't SENS devoting more time to wrinkle curing already? It seems like a rather smart thing to do funding-wise, not to mention publicity-wise.

Aubrey, if you read this, I'd love to hear your opinion on this!

#15 robomoon

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Posted 23 November 2009 - 10:21 PM

According to Dr Jay Tiesman, a principal scientist at P&G Beauty, around 1,500 genes have been found that play a key role in aging skin. Reference: http://www.dailymail...l#ixzz0XimLhsJ8 by David Derbyshire on 19 Jul 2009.

What does it take to change a specific selection from these 1,500 genes without some negative side-effects? And what does it take to produce a lotion for the skin which causes positive changes on those genes? Answers would help to establish a cost estimate about the financial profit from such an anti-wrinkle lotion. Untold billions of $$ are already a good suggestion.

...
Now imagine that amount of money that such a treatment could bring in for all the non-wrinkle-related reasearch that Aubrey and the rest of us want to support. Why isn't SENS devoting more time to wrinkle curing already? It seems like a rather smart thing to do funding-wise, not to mention publicity-wise.
...



#16 Inkstersco

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Posted 23 November 2009 - 10:29 PM

I agree that dramatic skin rejuvenation would change the world.

Imagine walking down the street and not being able to tell how old someone is by virtue of how they look. Just think what a fundamental affront that would to the status quo. How could anyone remain complacent about aging once chronological age and appearance are no longer correlated?

I think those who are expecting a cultural revolution on the basis of extended mouse life-span may wind up disappointed. Skin aging on the other hand? It would be impossible to ignore the publicity. It would be one of the most widely publicised news stories in history, and every young looking person in the world (henceforth rendered to be of indeterminate age) would from that moment on become a banner advertising SENS to every person they ever meet.

I hope we get there soon, and I'd be interested to hear anyone's thoughts on timelines. I've been asking for a long time actually, but rarely hear any answers. People seem willing to speculate about RMR, but not about skin rejuvenation. ...Strange.

Kismet, how might Nason's laser work rejuvenate the skin? Are we just talking about sun spots? Or are there other implications?



Skin with fewer lipofuscin granules would look younger in that it would have that glossy, undercooked appearence that goths always have.

--Iain

Edited by Inkstersco, 23 November 2009 - 10:30 PM.


#17 JLL

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Posted 24 November 2009 - 07:47 AM

I think this is a very good suggestion.

The current strategy for conquering aging seems to be us versus the world -- first there's the huge problem of actually developing rejuvenation therapies, and then there's the problem of selling it to the public. The pro-aging trance exists.

But wrinkles are something even the most hard-core ageists try to avoid. Yes, that's a contradiction, but people contradict themselves all the time. If they need to go through a rejuvenation therapy to get rid of their wrinkles, they probably will. If the therapy doesn't get rid of their wrinkles, they'll probably be against it (at first).

#18 31stCentury

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Posted 24 November 2009 - 03:44 PM

According to Dr Jay Tiesman, a principal scientist at P&G Beauty, around 1,500 genes have been found that play a key role in aging skin. Reference: http://www.dailymail...l#ixzz0XimLhsJ8 by David Derbyshire on 19 Jul 2009.

What does it take to change a specific selection from these 1,500 genes without some negative side-effects? And what does it take to produce a lotion for the skin which causes positive changes on those genes? Answers would help to establish a cost estimate about the financial profit from such an anti-wrinkle lotion. Untold billions of $$ are already a good suggestion.


Fortunately (assuming the 7 deadly SENS are valid), the SENS plan does not modify pre-existing nuclear genes (except for WILT -- but that's not a wrinkle problem) so, we only have to deal with the specific problem of targeting and induction of "positive changes" to anywhere from 0 to, at most, only 37, mtDNA genes out of those "1,500 genes" the P&G Beauty scientists think are the key.

#19 31stCentury

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Posted 24 November 2009 - 03:52 PM

Kismet, how might Nason's laser work rejuvenate the skin? Are we just talking about sun spots? Or are there other implications?


I recently listened to a Dermatologist on NPR who is a clinical professor of dermatology at NYU Medical Center and former president of the American Academy of Dermatology. He said some very informative things regarding skin wrinkles: (at 25:10 minutes)

INTERVIEWER: Now, you know, we've been talking about skin problems including skin cancers that are caused by exposure to the sun. One of the things that you specialize in is the aging skin. So while we're on the subject of aging skin, what do you think of anti-wrinkle creams?

Dr. RIGEL: The reason your skin wrinkles is because the tissue that supports the skin, what we call the connective tissues, weakens over time. And there're a bunch of things that can weaken it, sun exposure is one. If you take the skin and let's say - I'm not advocating doing this, if you did a biopsy of the skin of a baby's rear end, something that's never seen the sun, and you use special stains on that biopsy to see the - what we call the elastin tissue or the fibrous tissue underneath the skin - the supporting tissue, it would look like almost like a deck of cards that you cut in half and half shuffle and half pushed together so you'd have a whole bunch of interleaved parallel fibers that were perfectly lined up.

If you took the same type of biopsy, let's say on a 50-year-old who, on their forearms and had a lot of sun over the years, it would look like a ball of spaghetti because all the fibers would be disoriented and pulling and awry. And that's really one of the reasons why your skin wrinkles, why it ages, why it loses its tone, all those things, what you see. So you know in a sense that's probably the biggest issue you have, and these anti-wrinkle creams are at least allegedly designed to try to give you back some elasticity to your skin. It's very hard to do it and it's not even with, you know, the Vitamin A derivatives, Retin-A and the other retinoids, which are Vitamin A-like substances, it helps a little bit. You know, if you have fine lines and wrinkles with the cream-wise, maybe you get a five percent improvement or a 10 percent improvement. It's not going to work for deep lines really at all. It might work for those little fine lines around your eyes and help a little bit for that, but once you've got the deep lines, no cream is really going to work very effectively.


------------------------------------------------------------------------

Based on that quote, it seems to me like what the good dermatologist is refering to is extra-cellular protein crosslinks "between two nearby proteins that were previously free-moving, impairing their ability to slide across or along each other." Yes, that's RIGHT - glycoSENS to the rescue!
What SENS researchers might want to look into is the possibility of removing the previously nonexistant crosslinks involving collagen and elastin fibers in the skin to restore baby-like skin youthfulness. This approach may be able to fix artery related heart disease too!

Edited by 31stCentury, 24 November 2009 - 04:03 PM.


#20 Forever21

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Posted 25 November 2009 - 08:13 AM

I saw the ads on HULU.

#21 robomoon

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Posted 27 November 2009 - 10:01 PM

A description of Botox http://www.corneaclinic.com/botox.html reveals that its injection does not eliminate the skin wrinkle, but instead works on the muscle underneath. There are also "broadband light treatments", but who cares when their own description doesn't sound convincing for a treatment of wrinkles. A more convincing one might look like this: "Robomoon's Anti-Aging Department ® presents the new Longevity Lotion (T-M) in association with glycoSENS from the famous SENS Foundation." Anyways, a filler isn't an easy applicable skin lotion. Here's an example: EVOLENCE New Generation Collagen Based Facial Filler Gets FDA Approval http://www.skincareb...ts-fda-approval on the Skin Care & Beauty Blog, July 1, 2008. In this example, it's collagen itself. Thus, it's not a lotion I can smear into my face to break cross-linking like the enzymes suggested by glycoSENS should do. Nevertheless, it's hard to estimate how much it costs of develop these enzymes for an economic mass production. Thus, I don't have any idea of how many billions of financial profit it can bring. But I guess, the profit can be high enough for investors to jump in.

Not to poo-poo your idea, but skin rejuvenation's already a big business with quite a tool chest of dermal fillers, botox, broadband light treatments, &c. With a little lift & laser resurfacing even folks who look very old can see significant improvements in the appearance of youth. What's more difficult is to visually depict the substance of negligible senescence.



#22 Ben Simon

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Posted 28 November 2009 - 12:24 AM

I agree that dramatic skin rejuvenation would change the world.

Imagine walking down the street and not being able to tell how old someone is by virtue of how they look. Just think what a fundamental affront that would to the status quo. How could anyone remain complacent about aging once chronological age and appearance are no longer correlated?

I think those who are expecting a cultural revolution on the basis of extended mouse life-span may wind up disappointed. Skin aging on the other hand? It would be impossible to ignore the publicity. It would be one of the most widely publicised news stories in history, and every young looking person in the world (henceforth rendered to be of indeterminate age) would from that moment on become a banner advertising SENS to every person they ever meet.

I hope we get there soon, and I'd be interested to hear anyone's thoughts on timelines. I've been asking for a long time actually, but rarely hear any answers. People seem willing to speculate about RMR, but not about skin rejuvenation. ...Strange.

Kismet, how might Nason's laser work rejuvenate the skin? Are we just talking about sun spots? Or are there other implications?



Skin with fewer lipofuscin granules would look younger in that it would have that glossy, undercooked appearence that goths always have.

--Iain


It would look younger, how exactly? As for goth skin... you mean we would look pale?

Interesting.

Gotta say, I'm looking forward to seeing Nason's work hopefully come to fruition. Could be a novel few years ahead of us.

Edited by ben, 28 November 2009 - 12:24 AM.


#23 jans

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 08:12 PM

Celebrities "skin wrinkle war"

At the Singularity summit Venture Capitalist Peter Thiel emphasized the importance to involve some IQ celebrities to boost the cause. That is so true, why has it not been done before, as the stars need to stay young and naturally desire to maintain the status quo of their skin wrinkles? The Stars are involved in the charities in so many ways.

I am sure by the time I have written this it has already been done :-D

1. cause to partner with the stars for skin wrinkle war here http://www.looktothestars.org/partners
2. Involve celebrities at every event, to open, close, give over prizes
3. but first know who likes to support what area here - health http://www.looktothe...y...th&s=Search
4. It is a trend to give and to be kind, and everyone wants part of that http://www.looktothe...s.org/celebrity

just my thoughts

thanks

#24 robomoon

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Posted 04 December 2009 - 01:34 PM

Asking IQ celebrities for anti-aging support requires some qualities that were rare in the past. The looktothestars.org pages feature Courteney Cox who raises awareness for Last Chance for Animals instead of the Methuselah Mouse Price. Nevertheless, her face looks so beautiful, the public loves it. Even the photo of Bill Clinton, among the top celebrities, doesn't show a lot of prominent wrinkles. So he supports the William J. Clinton Foundation including Clinton Global Initiative and Clinton Foundation Climate Change Initiative. No wrinkles, but young and good-looking IQ owners for the CGI U student awards. But this doesn't stop the beauty industry from selling costly anti-wrinkle treatments to celebrities. They don't spend charities for dermal fillers and face lift, they pay for it the usual way. Not necessary to draw charities away from poor children and needy handicapped who require free health care. The public, however, will happily support a growing billion $$ business by buying anti-wrinkle lotions in stores. The latest break-through with macrophages which could be applied to cells in the skin too: genetic modification that inactivates the transcription factors(2) called MafB and c-Maf, introduced by Adult Cell Self-Renewal Without Stem Cells http://www.imminst.o...lls-t35381.html discussing http://www.scienceda...91116103838.htm from Michael Sieweke at the Centre d'immunologie de Marseille Luminy (Université Aix-Marseille 2 / CNRS / INSERM).

Celebrities "skin wrinkle war"

At the Singularity summit Venture Capitalist Peter Thiel emphasized the importance to involve some IQ celebrities to boost the cause. That is so true, why has it not been done before, as the stars need to stay young and naturally desire to maintain the status quo of their skin wrinkles? The Stars are involved in the charities in so many ways.

I am sure by the time I have written this it has already been done :p

1. cause to partner with the stars for skin wrinkle war here http://www.looktothestars.org/partners
2. Involve celebrities at every event, to open, close, give over prizes
3. but first know who likes to support what area here - health http://www.looktothe...y...th&s=Search
4. It is a trend to give and to be kind, and everyone wants part of that http://www.looktothe...s.org/celebrity

just my thoughts

thanks



#25 Inkstersco

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Posted 11 January 2010 - 01:56 PM

Here's the problem with this idea...

Radical rejuvenation of skin would require the very degree of success which the aforementioned popularisation is intended to achieve.

Yes, it is important to muck up the social idea of aging, which most people feel in their bones when they look at another person. And yes, radical skin rejuvenation might achieve this. But radical skin rejuvenation cannot be achieved early in the SENS agenda. Only a nearly-complete version of SENS can do this.

Physical beauty is already a self-evident benefit of rejuvenation. One is already automatically appealing to vanity the moment one appeals to one's general desire to have a youthful body. What should we do that we're not already?

--Inkstersco

Edited by Inkstersco, 11 January 2010 - 02:08 PM.


#26 Inkstersco

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Posted 11 January 2010 - 02:06 PM

I agree that dramatic skin rejuvenation would change the world.

Imagine walking down the street and not being able to tell how old someone is by virtue of how they look. Just think what a fundamental affront that would to the status quo. How could anyone remain complacent about aging once chronological age and appearance are no longer correlated?

I think those who are expecting a cultural revolution on the basis of extended mouse life-span may wind up disappointed. Skin aging on the other hand? It would be impossible to ignore the publicity. It would be one of the most widely publicised news stories in history, and every young looking person in the world (henceforth rendered to be of indeterminate age) would from that moment on become a banner advertising SENS to every person they ever meet.

I hope we get there soon, and I'd be interested to hear anyone's thoughts on timelines. I've been asking for a long time actually, but rarely hear any answers. People seem willing to speculate about RMR, but not about skin rejuvenation. ...Strange.

Kismet, how might Nason's laser work rejuvenate the skin? Are we just talking about sun spots? Or are there other implications?



Skin with fewer lipofuscin granules would look younger in that it would have that glossy, undercooked appearence that goths always have.

--Iain


It would look younger, how exactly? As for goth skin... you mean we would look pale?


Notice how a 2 year-old's arm skin looks the same as their face skin?

That match demonstrates a lack of sun damage.

That un-mottled look which children and teens who live in wintery climates have, would be regained, if lipofuscin were removed from skin.

Hence I lazily said 'goths' as a sort of shorthand. North European teenagers with good diets who never enter the sun.

--Inkstersco

#27 robomoon

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Posted 11 January 2010 - 10:01 PM

Well, anyone has to wait patiently for the final wonder drug against aging. No questions asked which kind of drug or how it's getting applied. Nobody wonders if that drug will be taken by injection or in the form of pills. Nothing can be of evidence if the treatment will be gene therapy through injection of modified organisms or an alternative chemical treatment with something to swallow in the form of pills. What about a treatment with substances from plants? No, no, I eat my words now, better if I mentioned enzymes or one-shot proteins instead of flower power to avoid any association with quackery.

Well, white short-lived laboratory mice are the best for research on that drug. Makes a better ah oh effect when they live longer after feeding it. And of cause, it must be tested on laboratory mice first. And admixture in dog food to test it's safety further. And FDA-approved. That's how it's research, it's scientific.

So it's ruling out proposals for a lotion that breaks crosslinking and perhaps to remove stuff like senescent cells too. But before this is becoming a long rant, here's a little link to find out some general motives for further aging research I've posted at SENS group at Facebook too http://www.mpib-berl...thein/index.htm with the Doctor's recommendation: swallow it!

Here's the problem with this idea...

Radical rejuvenation of skin would require the very degree of success which the aforementioned popularisation is intended to achieve.

Yes, it is important to muck up the social idea of aging, which most people feel in their bones when they look at another person. And yes, radical skin rejuvenation might achieve this. But radical skin rejuvenation cannot be achieved early in the SENS agenda. Only a nearly-complete version of SENS can do this.

Physical beauty is already a self-evident benefit of rejuvenation. One is already automatically appealing to vanity the moment one appeals to one's general desire to have a youthful body. What should we do that we're not already?

--Inkstersco



#28 kevin

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Posted 11 January 2010 - 11:10 PM

But radical skin rejuvenation cannot be achieved early in the SENS agenda. Only a nearly-complete version of SENS can do this.


I think this assertion assumes a lot that we don't yet know about the rejuvenation of specific tissues. Regardless as to our ignorance, it may be that restoration of skin to what it would have been like at the age of 20 both in appearance and structure could require more than cell therapy or crosslink breakers, but that shouldn't stop people from developing the lowest hanging fruit as I think there is a lot of room for improvement on current therapies. Those improvements would be commercially viable and able to fund more research. If the logic that all SENS strands would need to be working to rejuvenate skin properly holds, and there is money and funding to be had by achieving even incremental goals in skin rejuvenation, it seems only logical that skin should be the model of choice to demonstrate that SENS approaches are actually working from many perspectives. Vanity could indeed save the world. :)

#29 robomoon

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 07:33 PM

Nobody knows the complete aging mechanics. The parts of the human genome, protein folding, whatever, all too complicated to figure completely. Regarding the knowledge about ingredients for a lotion to remove the cellular mess for a couple of years in life which causes some ugly skin wrinkles: it must not be that big secret. If "we" don't know enough about it yet, after all the ever progressing scientific research within many decades, I doubt there are scientists who don't know about it. There are other reasons for not knowing it, for e.g., economic politics and trade secrets for wanting others not to know about it.

But radical skin rejuvenation cannot be achieved early in the SENS agenda. Only a nearly-complete version of SENS can do this.


I think this assertion assumes a lot that we don't yet know about the rejuvenation of specific tissues. Regardless as to our ignorance, it may be that restoration of skin to what it would have been like at the age of 20 both in appearance and structure could require more than cell therapy or crosslink breakers, but that shouldn't stop people from developing the lowest hanging fruit as I think there is a lot of room for improvement on current therapies. Those improvements would be commercially viable and able to fund more research. If the logic that all SENS strands would need to be working to rejuvenate skin properly holds, and there is money and funding to be had by achieving even incremental goals in skin rejuvenation, it seems only logical that skin should be the model of choice to demonstrate that SENS approaches are actually working from many perspectives. Vanity could indeed save the world. :)






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