17 replies to this topic

[GoodFellas]

Where can I find the fast acting form of Melatonin? I've heard that there's a special form of Melatonin available that acts within 30 minutes if you put it under your tongue.

Regular Melatonin works within 1-2 hours.

I'm looking for a fast acting one because every night I'm waking up after 4-5 hours of sleep. Right now I'm taking the regular Melatonin pill when I'm waking up. However, this is not optimal because I'm then laying 30-60 minutes in bed before I'm going to sleep again. Plus when I'm then waking up after 2-3 hours I feel like shit because my body is still in the "sleep mode". My eyes are red and my body temperature is pretty low.

Thanks.

[Athanasios]

Search for "sublingual melatonin" on google or your favorite supp vendor.

I use a 1mg sublingual and a 300mcg LEF time released pill. I am similar to you in this, but I do well mixing a quality time release with sublingual.

Edited by cnorwood, 30 August 2009 - 01:47 PM.

[GoodFellas]

Search for "sublingual melatonin" on google or your favorite supp vendor.

I use a 1mg sublingual and a 300mg LEF time released pill. I am similar to you in this, but I do well mixing a quality time release with sublingual.

I found some here (my favorite vendor):

http://www.supplemen...?...amp;x=0&y=0

However, the brand is *Source Naturals* are they really legit? I prefer purchasing from either ON or NOW FOODS..

[pycnogenol]

Right now I'm taking the regular Melatonin pill when I'm waking up.
However, this is not optimal because I'm then laying 30-60 minutes in bed before I'm going to sleep again.

How much "regular melatonin" are you taking?

[TigerMask]

Does anyone else always wake up after 5 hours after taking Melatonin? Usually I can sleep up to 9, but not with Melatonin. Maybe it's just the NOW brand.

[GoodFellas]

Right now I'm taking the regular Melatonin pill when I'm waking up.
However, this is not optimal because I'm then laying 30-60 minutes in bed before I'm going to sleep again.

How much "regular melatonin" are you taking?

About 6mg before going to bed and then 3mg more when I'm waking up. Probably too much;P

[russianBEAR]

Does the good ol' take off the pill coating and crush it up to make the time-release thingie go away method not work for Melatonin? 

I know a load of these so called time release pills that you just crack in half and chew up a bit and boom you get the full effect right away.

[VespeneGas]

Does the good ol' take off the pill coating and crush it up to make the time-release thingie go away method not work for Melatonin?

I know a load of these so called time release pills that you just crack in half and chew up a bit and boom you get the full effect right away.

Tweaker

@Goodfellas: stop taking so much melatonin. 300 mcg (less than 1/3 of a milligram) sublingually before bed time should be sufficient. I've used the source naturals product for a long time, and it behaves the same way other commercial sublingual melatonin's I've purchased do.

My impression is that you're a healthy 20 year old who takes way too much stuff without much research because you want to be UBER healthy. This is a bad approach, as kismet will tell you.

[hamishm00]

I think we should acknowledge that noone really knows what the ideal dose of melatonin is, or whether or not you should take it at all until you're older (and we know that the body produces less melatonin as we age).

There is only a small scientific body of thought backing up the statement that you should take small doses of melatonin. The idea is that too much melatonin may spill over onto the wrong zone of the melatonin phase-response curve.

But 300mcg is, in my opinion, too low a dose. 20mg is probably too high a dose. 10mg may be a net-positive dose. 5mg is a safe dose in my opinion. If your rationale is that the pineal gland only produces very tiny amounts of melatonin, this argument is flawed because the bulk of melatonin is produced by the skin. The GI tract also produces a fair whack of melatonin.

I have been taking average 5mg for the last 8 years, and I sleep like a baby. If I stop taking it, I also sleep like a baby. I don't take it for its sleep benefits, I take it for the full body benefits.

[russianBEAR]

Does the good ol' take off the pill coating and crush it up to make the time-release thingie go away method not work for Melatonin?

I know a load of these so called time release pills that you just crack in half and chew up a bit and boom you get the full effect right away.

Tweaker

@Goodfellas: stop taking so much melatonin. 300 mcg (less than 1/3 of a milligram) sublingually before bed time should be sufficient. I've used the source naturals product for a long time, and it behaves the same way other commercial sublingual melatonin's I've purchased do.

My impression is that you're a healthy 20 year old who takes way too much stuff without much research because you want to be UBER healthy. This is a bad approach, as kismet will tell you.

Well it worked for oxycontin, and certain 5-HTP brands, could work for melatonin. I remember taking a load of melatonin one day instead of a calcium supplement, boy was that fun being conscious but half in a dream

[Athanasios]

I think we should acknowledge that noone really knows what the ideal dose of melatonin is, or whether or not you should take it at all until you're older (and we know that the body produces less melatonin as we age).

There is only a small scientific body of thought backing up the statement that you should take small doses of melatonin. The idea is that too much melatonin may spill over onto the wrong zone of the melatonin phase-response curve.

But 300mcg is, in my opinion, too low a dose. 20mg is probably too high a dose. 10mg may be a net-positive dose. 5mg is a safe dose in my opinion. If your rationale is that the pineal gland only produces very tiny amounts of melatonin, this argument is flawed because the bulk of melatonin is produced by the skin. The GI tract also produces a fair whack of melatonin.

I have been taking average 5mg for the last 8 years, and I sleep like a baby. If I stop taking it, I also sleep like a baby. I don't take it for its sleep benefits, I take it for the full body benefits.

For its health properties, I would look for data that shows which dosages induce temperature drops and a chart that showed the decline respect to age. Both of these have been shown in previous melatonin threads, if interested.

[pycnogenol]

Does anyone else always wake up after 5 hours after taking Melatonin?
Usually I can sleep up to 9, but not with Melatonin. Maybe it's just the NOW brand.

It hasn't happened to me yet but then again I take a different brand (Twinlab).

[GoodFellas]

Does anyone else always wake up after 5 hours after taking Melatonin?

That's what's happening to me too..

As far as my sleep goes I think I might have sleep apea, which means that I'm having difficulties breathing when sleeping. Tried to register at the talkaboutsleep forum a couple of days ago to learn more, but I'm still awaiting activation for this..

I'm also going to see a sleep specialist. A couple of days ago I also quit most of my supplements to see if that helps. Right now I'm just taking:

-Omega-3
-Vitamin D3 and K2
-Selenium
-MultiVitamin
-Extra iron
-ProteinPowder
-Plus sleep herbs and supps.

[russianBEAR]

Does anyone else always wake up after 5 hours after taking Melatonin?
Usually I can sleep up to 9, but not with Melatonin. Maybe it's just the NOW brand.

It hasn't happened to me yet but then again I take a different brand (Twinlab).

I have the absolute worst quality sleep when I take melatonin, and my sleep patterns are already shot as it is. Plus I wake up feeling like trash for the first 20-30 minutes so it's not for everybody I guess.

[GoodFellas]

RB: What brand do use?

Btw, Melatonin does have a great effect on the testosterone levels, at least for me:)

[russianBEAR]

I've used all kinds of brands really, from Russian to foreign ones. Can't really remember now, but I tried several. Is the brand difference really that significant ? 

I've just used other tryptamines in the past and thought its because of that - basically my brain thinks it's time to trip in my sleep, thus the restless night..

[FunkOdyssey]

Only dose-ranging study I've ever heard of for the effects of melatonin on sleep quality compared 300mcg instant release, 300mcg time-release, 3mg instant and 3mg TR. 300mcg instant release produced the best sleep quality, followed by 300mcg time-release, and then the 3mg doses came in last. My theory is that the pharmacological dose of melatonin desensitizes receptors and then they are under-stimulated by physiological levels of melatonin as the supplemental dose is rapidly cleared from the system (45min half-life).

Unfortunately this study is not in pubmed but I am always seeing references to it in the product literature for 300mcg melatonin products.

Edited by FunkOdyssey, 31 August 2009 - 05:11 PM.

[GoodFellas]

Only dose-ranging study I've ever heard of for the effects of melatonin on sleep quality compared 300mcg instant release, 300mcg time-release, 3mg instant and 3mg TR. 300mcg instant release produced the best sleep quality, followed by 300mcg time-release, and then the 3mg doses came in last. My theory is that the pharmacological dose of melatonin desensitizes receptors and then they are under-stimulated by physiological levels of melatonin as the supplemental dose is rapidly cleared from the system (45min half-life).

Unfortunately this study is not in pubmed but I am always seeing references to it in the product literature for 300mcg melatonin products.

Where can you actually get 300mcg and 600mcg of Melatonin? Neither Source Naturals or Now Foods carry products with less than 1mg.

Btw, I've heard that Melatonin may to be advisable for those under 25? According to the host at SuperHumanRadio..