32 replies to this topic

[TheFountain]

Perhaps partly because it frightens me. Especially when they seem oblivious to how ghoulish and skeletal they look. I can't lock eyes with an old person without feeling a great deal of animosity, not toward them, but toward the process of aging I guess.

But what bothers me the most is how they don't seem to care, or if they do they hide it well. I can never see myself not caring or trying to be as optimal as I can be both appearance wise and in terms of general physical health. It is that look of resignation that creeps me out and makes me want to disappear to an island of the young.

How could middle aged men be so non-chalant about balding and getting fat and wrinkly? How could older women be so deceived as to think cover up hides their extreme age?

I know alot of people will say they are preoccupied with their children and/or grandchildren but I say if THAT is what having children does to you screw it. I would rather focus my life optimizing myself than having kids who just drain my physical and mental energy away to the point where I can't even focus on self care, diet, skin health, whatever.

And if people find that selfish, I don't mind that so much. I think having children is a form of selfishness too. Obviously if it is something you want, it is selfish, unless you want it for the other person. People have children to fulfill themselves, not others.

Anyway..

Would you classify this as a normal fear or a pathological disturbance? Is there a term for those who fear old people or the prospect of aging? Like a phobia?

I just fear aging I guess, which is normal, but I fear it to a degree where I think I would rather die than live an ugly invalid being treated like muck. Of course I luckily have a number of years before this happens, but the more I think about it the more it bothers me. Thoughts? Opinions?

Edited by TheFountain, 21 September 2009 - 03:54 PM.

[KalaBeth]

I wouldn't say it's an uncommon feeling, but rather one of our baser instincts we suppress for the sake of getting along in community - the same for the weak, infirm, or even the homeless man on the corner. The physically unfit are also often social outcasts... whether that's simply a "that could be me" uncomfortableness they generate or some kind of EvPsych "shun the one who might have a contagious disease/bad genes" I don't know.... but it's hardly uncommon.

So far as resignation... to date, what choice have they really had? All the jogging, niche diets, and face creams in the world don't do anything but postpone the inevitable a few years. And God forbid they get a facelift or hair plugs or the like... the mockery and pathos there is even worse. So either they tear themselves up with useless rage, or resign themselves. And between the two, throughout all of human history the latter has been the emotionally easier route to travel.

Now with SENS and the compiled research to date, there's a possibility... not a certainty, but enough to work towards, that those who are relatively young today won't have to go through the trials our elders did, just as they didn't have to endure the ravages of polio or smallpox, and their elders were spared widespread famine. Which would be awesome... but is hardly cause to cast them aside. (Heck, I'd say the work of SENS isn't done until it can make a 90 year old Aubrey fit as he was at 19).

To the children thing... the old Chinese philosophers would say you're swimming upstream on that one, acting contrary to the natural flow of the world. That's not a moral indictment so much as a prediction that "your life will be harder if you take this road." Take that for what it's worth.

(and for that matter, remember a good deal of the technological progress in the western world that's made all our lives better has been due to acting contrary to thenatural flow ofthe world. So... "whatcha gonna do with it" is likely the question there.)

Perhaps partly because it frightens me. Especially when they seem oblivious to how ghoulish and skeletal they look. I can't lock eyes with an old person without feeling a great deal of animosity, not toward them, but toward the process of aging I guess.

But what bothers me the most is how they don't seem to care, or if they do they hide it well. I can never see myself not caring or trying to be as optimal as I can be both appearance wise and in terms of general physical health. It is that look of resignation that creeps me out and makes me want to disappear to an island of the young.

How could middle aged men be so non-chalant about balding and getting fat and wrinkly? How could older women be so deceived as to think cover up hides their extreme age?

I know alot of people will say they are preoccupied with their children and/or grandchildren but I say if THAT is what having children does to you screw it. I would rather focus my life optimizing myself than having kids who just drain my physical and mental energy away to the point where I can't even focus on self care, diet, skin health, whatever.

And if people find that selfish, I don't mind that so much. I think having children is a form of selfishness too. Obviously if it is something you want, it is selfish, unless you want it for the other person. People have children to fulfill themselves, not others.

Anyway..

Would you classify this as a normal fear or a pathological disturbance? Is there a term for those who fear old people or the prospect of aging? Like a phobia?

I just fear aging I guess, which is normal, but I fear it to a degree where I think I would rather die than live an ugly invalid being treated like muck. Of course I luckily have a number of years before this happens, but the more I think about it the more it bothers me. Thoughts? Opinions?

[forever freedom]

People have an incredible capacity to get used to situations they know (or think) they can't change. It doesn't matter how bad the situation is, if people think they can't change it, they'll get used to it and it won't influence their overall level of happiness. Crippled people after a while show the same levels of happiness as fully functional people.

I think your fear is a good thing as long as it doesn't make you miserable. It probably motivates you to move forward, to do whatever you can to delay aging and that's good IMO. Also, knowing that there's a real possibility that you will live long enough to beat aging probably makes your fear more intense but it also must motivate you more.


As long as the fear doesn't harm your functionality i think it's a good thing considering the reasons you have the fear (being a fruit of knowledge and non-conformism rather than paranoia).



I personally don't fear aging but that's because i'm really optimistic that i'll live long enough to see ways to beat it, be it uploading to a computer, becoming cyborg, or beating it through approaches like SENS. I suppose this is a good state to be in, although it's probably not as motivating as feeling real fear of dying of old age.

[lunarsolarpower]

But what bothers me the most is how they don't seem to care, or if they do they hide it well.

I've met very few older people who don't care about their decline in health and vitality. Obviously many of them have come to acceptance of their state as basically unchangeable but you might be surprised how many extremely geriatric looking people are quite frustrated with their condition and how much effort they will go to for even a small piece of rejuvenation available today. The enemy in our fight isn't old people - they're the casualties.

[Mind]

I think a large part of it is "acceptance". I have not met many old people that are comfortable with their pain and disability, they just accept it. Also, I think a part of it is that our brains age as well. Thought processes slow down. We don't have as much mental energy. We forget what it was like to be young and vibrant. This makes it easier to fall into the trap of "acceptance". I think people forget about this (brain) aspect of aging sometimes.

[brokenportal]

They dont think there is anything they can do about it. After we inform them all then many of their expressions will change.

When I see advanced aged people I feel like Im in a horror show. Its hard to watch. Its like they are in a torture chamber that is getting ready to tip over off the edge of oblivion and people like us are rushing for the key to get them out.

If we rush with enough care and speed theres no telling how many of them we might be able to free before they tip over that edge.

[TheFountain]

I wouldn't say it's an uncommon feeling, but rather one of our baser instincts we suppress for the sake of getting along in community - the same for the weak, infirm, or even the homeless man on the corner.

Actually I have a great deal of compassion for the homeless man on the corner, especially if he is mentally ill and/or drug addicted. But I am not so compassionate to the fat.

whether that's simply a "that could be me" uncomfortableness they generate or some kind of EvPsych "shun the one who might have a contagious disease/bad genes" I don't know....

I think, in this case it's more like 'shun the one with the short Telomeres' who looks like a walking skeleton. Kind of brings this guy to mind (despite being young on the inside 'age' has made him very ugly on the outside.

So far as resignation... to date, what choice have they really had? All the jogging, niche diets, and face creams in the world don't do anything but postpone the inevitable a few years.

Don't you think all the knowledge we have amassed here on this site will give us a better chance of lasting a bit longer than these people? I'm not sure how old you are, i'm assuming you're young, but if you think about it the average 60 year old lived in a different world than we do and had nowhere near the options we have in terms of selectivity and the ability of weeding out truth from fiction. Good diet from fad diet. Medical truth with medical myth. Plus there have been several scientific and supplement break throughs that they weren't able to take advantage of at a young age as some of us here are.

And God forbid they get a facelift or hair plugs or the like... the mockery and pathos there is even worse. So either they tear themselves up with useless rage, or resign themselves. And between the two, throughout all of human history the latter has been the emotionally easier route to travel.

I still cannot cope with the misery in their eyes that lies hidden deeply, knowing their days are numbered. It is nightmarish.

Now with SENS and the compiled research to date, there's a possibility... not a certainty, but enough to work towards, that those who are relatively young today won't have to go through the trials our elders did, just as they didn't have to endure the ravages of polio or smallpox, and their elders were spared widespread famine.
Which would be awesome... but is hardly cause to cast them aside. (Heck, I'd say the work of SENS isn't done until it can make a 90 year old Aubrey fit as he was at 19).

Jack Lallane is 94 and still exercises two hours a day with weights and other things. His diet is very low in sugar and refined carbohydrates. I saw a picture of him once when he was 60 and he didn't look a day over 35. Unfortunately he does look his age now but he is living proof that if you work at it, the longevity part is possible.

To the children thing... the old Chinese philosophers would say you're swimming upstream on that one, acting contrary to the natural flow of the world. That's not a moral indictment so much as a prediction that "your life will be harder if you take this road." Take that for what it's worth.

I think not. See when people speak of what is or isn't 'natural' I for one believe it to be more all encompassing than other's make it seem. E.G it is just as natural to question established laws as it is to 'go with the flow'. In fact I would say there is no going 'against the flow' per se, just going with a different aspect of the same universal flow. ya dig?

(and for that matter, remember a good deal of the technological progress in the western world that's made all our lives better has been due to acting contrary to thenatural flow ofthe world.

What makes my table lamp less natural than this carrot I am eating? Is human kind not of the natural order? Did we not evolve naturally here on earth? Are our products thus not equally natural?

[TheFountain]

Also, I think a part of it is that our brains age as well. Thought processes slow down. We don't have as much mental energy. We forget what it was like to be young and vibrant. This makes it easier to fall into the trap of "acceptance". I think people forget about this (brain) aspect of aging sometimes.

I read a study that basically concluded that, although the brain shrinks as we age, there is no loss of cognition, and in fact mental dexterity (not accounting for physical response) was just as 'sharp' as ever. So I think people just kind of enter this socially conditioned mind space because they know it is expected of them, and they are too afraid of losing love and appreciation as 'old' people.

[TheFountain]

But what bothers me the most is how they don't seem to care, or if they do they hide it well.

I've met very few older people who don't care about their decline in health and vitality. Obviously many of them have come to acceptance of their state as basically unchangeable but you might be surprised how many extremely geriatric looking people are quite frustrated with their condition and how much effort they will go to for even a small piece of rejuvenation available today. The enemy in our fight isn't old people - they're the casualties.

Oh I know, as I stated in my original post I am not angry at them I am angry at the catalyst which turns them from vibrant human beings into completely zapped out raisins. But it scares me to look at them. I hate the idea that it could be a solemn mirror of some kind, and that even if we can slow down the aging process by say, 50 years, we will still eventually look old. It makes me want to go into suspended animation till they find a cure for the disease.

I think we have come a long way though and that some people do in fact age more slowly than other's. Usually it is no more than 10-15 years but it is a beginning. There is much debate as to the component of the deceleration but if you look at people like jared leto then compare him to other's his age you know that people age differently and at varying paces, and I am confident lifestyle has something to do with it. Even if just a small bit.

Edited by TheFountain, 21 September 2009 - 07:21 PM.

[TheFountain]

People have an incredible capacity to get used to situations they know (or think) they can't change. It doesn't matter how bad the situation is, if people think they can't change it, they'll get used to it and it won't influence their overall level of happiness. Crippled people after a while show the same levels of happiness as fully functional people.

Happiness shouldn't be a coping mechanism, it should be something we choose to be for reasons under our control. I know this seems egocentric but self-control (or the loss thereof) is at the very heart of this. I mean if old people at least fought a little harder maybe I wouldn't feel so sick when looking at them. If they showed a passion, even a sort of grumpy resolve, then I would be content with that. Anything but passivity in the face of the unknown.

[fatboy]

Looking at young people worries me. I fear we might be angering them.

[castrensis]

Perhaps partly because it frightens me. Especially when they seem oblivious to how ghoulish and skeletal they look. I can't lock eyes with an old person without feeling a great deal of animosity, not toward them, but toward the process of aging I guess...But what bothers me the most is how they don't seem to care...

Kind of brings this guy to mind (despite being young on the inside 'age' has made him very ugly on the outside.

I come into contact with quite a few elderly folks & the great majority of them lament their loss of independence & degradation of their organism. As one centenarian phrased it, "My body is betraying me!" I get the impression that you think elderly people have "given up", so to speak, but I can assure you that once elderly people lose hope & fall into complacency they usually suffer a failure to thrive & as a result initiate the death process. Based on your statements what you find horrifying is the physical manifestations of aging & deride people for not undergoing procedures to maintain the appearance of youth. Your unfavorable judgment of these people is aesthetic, not substantive.

[TheFountain]

Perhaps partly because it frightens me. Especially when they seem oblivious to how ghoulish and skeletal they look. I can't lock eyes with an old person without feeling a great deal of animosity, not toward them, but toward the process of aging I guess...But what bothers me the most is how they don't seem to care...

Kind of brings this guy to mind (despite being young on the inside 'age' has made him very ugly on the outside.

I come into contact with quite a few elderly folks & the great majority of them lament their loss of independence & degradation of their organism. As one centenarian phrased it, "My body is betraying me!" I get the impression that you think elderly people have "given up", so to speak, but I can assure you that once elderly people lose hope & fall into complacency they usually suffer a failure to thrive & as a result initiate the death process. Based on your statements what you find horrifying is the physical manifestations of aging & deride people for not undergoing procedures to maintain the appearance of youth. Your unfavorable judgment of these people is aesthetic, not substantive.

No, it's both actually. You can't compare Jack Lallane with the average 94 year old. You can't compare Sylvester Stallone with the average 63 year old, you can't compare Jared Leto with the average 37 year old. These are people who make an effort via well thought-out lifestyle choices NOT to resign to 'getting older' middle age or extreme old age. They are inspirations despite their celebrity nature. Every person in their relative age group should see them as an example to follow. Be it through dietary choices (Leto) or extreme physical endurance (stallone and Lallane). Believe it or not the majority of people who are aging, old and extremely old do not micro-manage their diets scientifically the way we here at Imminst do. THAT is also what upsets me about them. The information is out there but they are not seeing it. At least the majority of them.

[caston]

We shouldn't have so many old people. I had to sit next to an old lady on the plane on my second flight back from the UK when going from Singapore to Australia. The flight before that I was sitting next to a guy in his late 50's which wasn't so bad but of course I would have much preferred to be with people my own age.

A major issue is that we are keeping old people alive longer and longer. We are giving them all kinds of drugs to lower their blood pressure and prevent clotting (e.g. warfarin) to stop them dying of a stroke or heart attack. What we don't understand is that these conditions were a natural method of keeping the numbers of old people to a minimum allowing a healthier community and society.

When we intervene by keeping the aged and frail alive we are damaging our society. Not only are the aged hogging up housing that could otherwise be lived in by young people and those wishing to start families but they harbor and spread disease.

The enormous expenditure on geriatrics is by far the most damaging of all drug trades.

As life extensonists and indeed as just as people living the modern world we will need to make important decisions about policy towards the aged and the treatment of aging.

If indeed it could be proven possible to take a 80 year old and rejuvenate them to health of a 70 year old then a 60 year old then 50 year old and so on then we should do it. At the moment I don't know how that could be possible and the only things that I could suggest may have a far greater risk of actually killing them the more advanced they are in age.

What we shouldn't be doing is asking them to take drugs like warfarin to keep themselves alive. Everyone suffers because of this.

Edited by caston, 22 September 2009 - 11:49 AM.

[TheFountain]

No, the issue is that the pharmacutical industry is keeping senior citizens in a perpetual state of sickness. The medications only address the symptoms, not the cause in most cases. So the illness is in effect 'out of sight, out of mind' except for the horrid side effects of the medications prescribed, some of which require other medications to deal with. It is a vicious cycle and there have to be more resources out there to combat illness than the ones employed by that industry. Diabetes is an example, you can combat the illness through diet and herbs but many are left in a perpetual state of sickness because they are indoctrinated to believe otherwise.

Edited by TheFountain, 22 September 2009 - 01:03 PM.

[caston]

No, the issue is that the pharmacutical industry is keeping senior citizens in a perpetual state of sickness. The medications only address the symptoms, not the cause in most cases. So the illness is in effect 'out of sight, out of mind' except for the horrid side effects of the medications prescribed, some of which require other medications to deal with. It is a vicious cycle and there have to be more resources out there to combat illness than the ones employed by that industry. Diabetes is an example, you can combat the illness through diet and herbs but many are left in a perpetual state of sickness because they are indoctrinated to believe otherwise.

Yes, and the "heart attack" or the "stroke" was natures way of stopping this perpetual sickness from spreading to the rest of the population. We have disabled natures cure not because we care about those people but because their sickness is so profitable. Pharmaceutical and biotech companies make no money from young and healthy people.

They rub their hands with glee in anticipation of our approaching decay and frailty.

Edited by caston, 22 September 2009 - 01:22 PM.

[TheFountain]

No, the issue is that the pharmacutical industry is keeping senior citizens in a perpetual state of sickness. The medications only address the symptoms, not the cause in most cases. So the illness is in effect 'out of sight, out of mind' except for the horrid side effects of the medications prescribed, some of which require other medications to deal with. It is a vicious cycle and there have to be more resources out there to combat illness than the ones employed by that industry. Diabetes is an example, you can combat the illness through diet and herbs but many are left in a perpetual state of sickness because they are indoctrinated to believe otherwise.

Yes, and the "heart attack" or the "stroke" was natures way of stopping this perpetual sickness from spreading to the rest of the population. We have disabled natures cure not because we care about those people but because their sickness is so profitable. Pharmaceutical and biotech companies make no money from young and healthy people.

They rub their hands with glee in anticipation of our approaching decay and frailty.

And they probably seek ways of helping us approach that state sooner. They and the food industry are in bed together.

[Loot Perish]

Perhaps partly because it frightens me. Especially when they seem oblivious to how ghoulish and skeletal they look. I can't lock eyes with an old person without feeling a great deal of animosity, not toward them, but toward the process of aging I guess.

But what bothers me the most is how they don't seem to care, or if they do they hide it well. I can never see myself not caring or trying to be as optimal as I can be both appearance wise and in terms of general physical health. It is that look of resignation that creeps me out and makes me want to disappear to an island of the young.

How could middle aged men be so non-chalant about balding and getting fat and wrinkly? How could older women be so deceived as to think cover up hides their extreme age?

I know alot of people will say they are preoccupied with their children and/or grandchildren but I say if THAT is what having children does to you screw it. I would rather focus my life optimizing myself than having kids who just drain my physical and mental energy away to the point where I can't even focus on self care, diet, skin health, whatever.

And if people find that selfish, I don't mind that so much. I think having children is a form of selfishness too. Obviously if it is something you want, it is selfish, unless you want it for the other person. People have children to fulfill themselves, not others.

Anyway..

Would you classify this as a normal fear or a pathological disturbance? Is there a term for those who fear old people or the prospect of aging? Like a phobia?

I just fear aging I guess, which is normal, but I fear it to a degree where I think I would rather die than live an ugly invalid being treated like muck. Of course I luckily have a number of years before this happens, but the more I think about it the more it bothers me. Thoughts? Opinions?

ah, the folly, self-centeredness, and naivete of youth....

Edited by Reverend_X, 22 September 2009 - 02:46 PM.

[TheFountain]

Perhaps partly because it frightens me. Especially when they seem oblivious to how ghoulish and skeletal they look. I can't lock eyes with an old person without feeling a great deal of animosity, not toward them, but toward the process of aging I guess.

But what bothers me the most is how they don't seem to care, or if they do they hide it well. I can never see myself not caring or trying to be as optimal as I can be both appearance wise and in terms of general physical health. It is that look of resignation that creeps me out and makes me want to disappear to an island of the young.

How could middle aged men be so non-chalant about balding and getting fat and wrinkly? How could older women be so deceived as to think cover up hides their extreme age?

I know alot of people will say they are preoccupied with their children and/or grandchildren but I say if THAT is what having children does to you screw it. I would rather focus my life optimizing myself than having kids who just drain my physical and mental energy away to the point where I can't even focus on self care, diet, skin health, whatever.

And if people find that selfish, I don't mind that so much. I think having children is a form of selfishness too. Obviously if it is something you want, it is selfish, unless you want it for the other person. People have children to fulfill themselves, not others.

Anyway..

Would you classify this as a normal fear or a pathological disturbance? Is there a term for those who fear old people or the prospect of aging? Like a phobia?

I just fear aging I guess, which is normal, but I fear it to a degree where I think I would rather die than live an ugly invalid being treated like muck. Of course I luckily have a number of years before this happens, but the more I think about it the more it bothers me. Thoughts? Opinions?

ah, the folly, self-centeredness, and naivete of youth....

And old people are invariably very giving to those in need? I think not.

[VictorBjoerk]

I have had a "pet peeve" since watching a demonstration against a closure of a school in my local area. The children were marching towards the town hall with a large banderoll reading "REMEMBER THAT WE ARE THE FUTURE, NOT YOU".

That sign irritated me to say the least.

Like many of you I do not have any ageism. When I see an old person I see a young person who is trapped in a incorrect biological state and is in need of rejuvenation therapies to get back into their correct biological state (which is like people aged 20-25).

I also of course am very frustrated by the pro-aging trance, people just lolling around apologizing for aging. It is so absurd!

nowadays I am always very open with what I think about aging, I do not sugarcoat it and apologize for it.

I also must say that I see a lot of ageism almost daily, I try to confront it. There are occasions when people eg can imitate an old persons feebleness and then the people in the room break out in laughter. There is nothing comical about it according to me, It's just as tasteless as joking about the holocaust.

Edited by VictorBjoerk, 22 September 2009 - 05:01 PM.

[KalaBeth]

What we shouldn't be doing is asking them to take drugs like warfarin to keep themselves alive. Everyone suffers because of this.

I daresay most people on bloodthinners or similar medications wouldn't describe it as "being asked to take it to keep themselves alive" - as if they have some burning desire to just hurry up and die already so we don't have to look at them or live without all their loot.

[castrensis]

We shouldn't have so many old people. I had to sit next to an old lady on the plane on my second flight back from the UK when going from Singapore to Australia. The flight before that I was sitting next to a guy in his late 50's which wasn't so bad but of course I would have much preferred to be with people my own age.

A major issue is that we are keeping old people alive longer and longer. We are giving them all kinds of drugs to lower their blood pressure and prevent clotting (e.g. warfarin) to stop them dying of a stroke or heart attack. What we don't understand is that these conditions were a natural method of keeping the numbers of old people to a minimum allowing a healthier community and society.

When we intervene by keeping the aged and frail alive we are damaging our society. Not only are the aged hogging up housing that could otherwise be lived in by young people and those wishing to start families but they harbor and spread disease.

Ha! I can hardly take this seriously & think it must be a caricature of TheFountain's OP or a ruse to elicit discussion. Nonetheless, I'll respond.

I think your understanding of medicine is slightly askew. Blood pressure medications, anticoagulants, diuretics, & the lot are used to increase healthspan & have a significant role in the prevention of disease in otherwise borderline healthy folks. By controlling risk factors for disease physicians are able to delay or obviate the manifestation of the disease resulting in people who have longer, more productive lives. Simply by treatment of disease we extend lifespan. I'm pretty happy I didn't die from scarlet fever, pneumonias & multiple strep infections when I was younger. I'm very pleased an accident with a very sharp knife didn't result in a crippled hand or death from blood loss. I'm certain you've been touched by the wonders of modern medicine & a good number of us stand a decent chance of being dead today if it weren't for timely medical intervention &, sometimes, maintenance treatment. What makes treatment of disease states appropriate for one group of people & inappropriate for others? I don't think we get to make that choice.

[castrensis]

No, the issue is that the pharmacutical industry is keeping senior citizens in a perpetual state of sickness. The medications only address the symptoms, not the cause in most cases. So the illness is in effect 'out of sight, out of mind' except for the horrid side effects of the medications prescribed, some of which require other medications to deal with. It is a vicious cycle and there have to be more resources out there to combat illness than the ones employed by that industry. Diabetes is an example, you can combat the illness through diet and herbs but many are left in a perpetual state of sickness because they are indoctrinated to believe otherwise.

Please enlighten us with what the cause & cure of these diseases are so that the scientists working tirelessly to cure these diseases can finally get it right. Unfortunately, until you decide to share your brilliant insights to the cause & cure of disease, we'll have to give folks medications to help prevent the sequelae of the disorder. & please, I'd love to know what treatment you'd prescribe for a diabetic with a 900 blood sugar. The world awaits your miracle antidote with baited breath.

Yes, and the "heart attack" or the "stroke" was natures way of stopping this perpetual sickness from spreading to the rest of the population. We have disabled natures cure not because we care about those people but because their sickness is so profitable. Pharmaceutical and biotech companies make no money from young and healthy people.

Death is not a cure. What is this perpetual sickness that spreads to the rest of us? Are your delicate sensibilities offended having to share the world with the - eww! - wrinkled folk?

Edited by castrensis, 22 September 2009 - 05:21 PM.

[TheFountain]

I have had a "pet peeve" since watching a demonstration against a closure of a school in my local area. The children were marching towards the town hall with a large banderoll reading "REMEMBER THAT WE ARE THE FUTURE, NOT YOU".

That sign irritated me to say the least.

Like many of you I do not have any ageism. When I see an old person I see a young person who is trapped in a incorrect biological state and is in need of rejuvenation therapies to get back into their correct biological state (which is like people aged 20-25).

I also of course am very frustrated by the pro-aging trance, people just lolling around apologizing for aging. It is so absurd!

nowadays I am always very open with what I think about aging, I do not sugarcoat it and apologize for it.

I also must say that I see a lot of ageism almost daily, I try to confront it. There are occasions when people eg can imitate an old persons feebleness and then the people in the room break out in laughter. There is nothing comical about it according to me, It's just as tasteless as joking about the holocaust.

I never made fun of elderly people, nor am I directing any agism at anyone. I simply expressed an emotion, uncomfortable as it might be, about something that irks me in the condition we call life. How do you feel about fat people? Noisy people? Obnoxious people? Violent people? Dare I say some violent people cannot control their violent tendencies? What then do we do with them? Reformation? Prison? What can science provide us with to deal with such individuals? What of the elderly? Why are so many elderly patients still recieving treatment that is next of kin to death?

[TheFountain]

Please enlighten us with what the cause & cure of these diseases are so that the scientists working tirelessly to cure these diseases can finally get it right.

How could they be working tirelessly to get it right if the necessary funding is not there? Be real. They don't have all that is required of them to make quantum leaps in science right now because funding is being directed to war and the continued separation of nations. If it wasn't for the internet people would believe all the propaganda too. But I still think many elderly people are not taking advantage of what we do know and supplements and dietary regimens that can help significantly.

Unfortunately, until you decide to share your brilliant insights to the cause & cure of disease, we'll have to give folks medications to help prevent the sequelae of the disorder. & please, I'd love to know what treatment you'd prescribe for a diabetic with a 900 blood sugar.

It has been shown that Diet alone can alleviate the primary symptoms of diabetes. Add to that AGE blockers like benfotiamine, Taurine, Carnosine, ALA and you have a non-prescribed formula for controlling the disease.

Edited by TheFountain, 22 September 2009 - 07:06 PM.

[Brafarality]

I get the same feeling when I see midgets: I wanna beat 'em senseless! Kidding!

Me no mean to disagree, but only feel respect, compassion, and fondness for the elders of the universe.

Interesting viewpoint, though. I guess there is infirmness and weakness and a slow descent that is perceivable to anyone looking.

Well, cheers!

[DJS]

Yes, and the "heart attack" or the "stroke" was natures way of stopping this perpetual sickness from spreading to the rest of the population. We have disabled natures cure not because we care about those people but because their sickness is so profitable.

They rub their hands with glee in anticipation of our approaching decay and frailty.

Just to state the general "mainstream" consensus in gerontology... Aging is a product of evolutionary neglect, not intent. This conclusion goes back more than half a century to Medawar's observation of the virtual nonexistence of aged organism in the wild (how could selection act on something which doesn't exist?) It amazes me how often program theory is still espoused, despite being so obviously flawed.

Anyone who holds this bogus and antiquated position needs to commit to a thorough reevaluation of aging theory, evolutionary theory, and logic. I watched a presentation on programmed aging theory at sens4 and I can't tell you how irritated it made me.

On another note, some of the most interesting and valuable people I know are 'old people'. Some rather weird sentiments have been expressed on this thread, sentiments which I don't think are in line with the Immortalist communities philosophy on life. Old people are people too, and if you have a problem interacting with them (just because they're old) then, well, somethings not right upstairs.

[Brafarality]

By the way, great pic!:



Keith Richards is awesome.

And, he has looked more or less like this for the past 20 years. He aged quickly early on, then, time caught up to him, or, is it, he caught up to time?! And, perhaps he adopted some healthier measures in later years and thus aging slowed, or, perhaps, time's cruel brush could not improve on what had been created so quickly, and so it was frozen for eons.

[TheFountain]

I get the same feeling when I see midgets: I wanna beat 'em senseless! Kidding!

Kidding or not I actually think midgets are less able to do something about their condition than the 55 year old with an overhanging beer belly. Proper dieting and moderate exercise can eliminate those issues in the middle aged unless they have a severe thyroid issue, which most do not. Midgets are midgets because of a congenital growth hormone disorder. I really hardly believe that people are predisposed to being fat because whenever you see obesity 'running in the family' it almost always coincides with poor intra-generational eating habits. Besides there is no archeological evidence that some of our ancestors were fat while other's weren't. The 'fat thing' happened with modern homo sapiens.

Me no mean to disagree, but only feel respect, compassion, and fondness for the elders of the universe.

Again, I cannot help, when seeing a 50 year old fat guy, that this guy can do something about his overweight condition by doing research, proper dieting, moderate exercise/walking whatever. I feel sympathy for such individuals but I cannot respect their lack of control over what can ostensibly be controlled, even at their ages, which isn't even that old really.

Edited by TheFountain, 23 September 2009 - 06:21 PM.

[TheFountain]

Just to state the general "mainstream" consensus in gerontology... Aging is a product of evolutionary neglect, not intent. This conclusion goes back more than half a century to Medawar's observation of the virtual nonexistence of aged organism in the wild (how could selection act on something which doesn't exist?) It amazes me how often program theory is still espoused, despite being so obviously flawed.

Not to mention the fact that Neoteny is already evidenced in nature, from toy dogs to people like Andy Milonakis. In such cases I would assume Senescence to be a product of pure cellular neglect on the part of the organisms internal economy, maybe dietary flaws and other lifestyle choices (although dogs obviously cannot consciously control what they eat). Imagine looking like a 25 year old when you die at 90 of chromosomal damage. What a pity.

Old people are people too, and if you have a problem interacting with them (just because they're old) then, well, somethings not right upstairs.

I don't hate old people, I have made this abundantly clear. What I hate is the fact that certain controllable conditions are completely overlooked by the middle-aged. Conditions such as mild over weight due to diets highly conducive to glycation. I mean the research is all out there and these people can do something about it.