14 replies to this topic

[Lufega]

Is there any validity to this? I can't seem to understand why I and other people, have mineral deficiencies. This is even though I've been supplementing them for years. I can't seem to bring these levels up. For me, these include magnesium, manganese, sodium (I'm hyponatremic always) and to a lesser degree, lithium.

For example, magnesium is excreted via the kidneys. I tested urine magnesium to see if I had excess excretion and this result was normal. So I am not excreting more magnesium than normal. The other factor could be a malabsorption issue. Here, I supplement with 600-1000 mg MG daily and I can feel the effects of it so some of it, at least is getting absorbed and should increase my blood values. Month after month however, I am still low. A hair analysis I did last year showed all my minerals were screwed up. I applied some formula and according to Cutler, I had mercury or other heavy metal toxicity. I am getting very tired of having to supplement these minerals.

What's going on? Should I do a heavy metal chelation therapy??

Edited by Lufega, 21 September 2009 - 11:29 PM.

[nameless]

What is your magnesium RBC level? And what form of MG are you using?

[Lufega]

I have only checked serum magnesium. This test is not accurate ONLY if the values come back normal or high. If it's low, like in my case, then expect it to be low in the RBC as well. I've used all kinda of magnesium: Orotate, chelated, glycine, taurate, even magnesium fizz. I've also eat foods that are high in magnesium. I'm currently using 600 mg magnesium glycinate daily.

[rwac]

Have you tried an Epsom Salt bath ?

[nameless]

How low was your serum magnesium then?

I think the Mag RBC test is more accurate than serum, so it's probably worth getting retested.

Would high doses of manganese interfere with mag absorption? And I assume you aren't taking large doses of calcium.

[kismet]

What's going on? Should I do a heavy metal chelation therapy??

Is there any evidence that they do anything whatsoever for chronic heavy metal exposure, not acute poisoning? I fear not. Is there really any evidence that heavy metals (which ones?) impair absorption of mineral (which ones?) There's a lot of guesswork to be done before the therapy.

Who is Cutler and what formula? Doesn't happen to be a quack selling chelation therapy? Does your serum level show any dose-response curve at all? You're not getting diarrhea from 1000mg Mg?

[Lufega]

The problem of an intractable magnesium deficiency is apparently, a common one. I'm hoping someone here has some insight. George Eby also tackled this problem in his website. The best he could do was blame it on candida causing some king of malabsorption. I've used boron, inulin, taurine as all these things help magnesium absorption.

Has no one else here noticed constant low magnesium levels despite supplementation??

I'm currently rotating in OB/GYN so I have access to IV magnesium sulfate. It burns like hell going in but I can try dosing myself and see if this brings up my levels.

My last serum mag test came back at 1.8. The range is 1.9 - 2.70. That's not so bad, but it always remains there no matter how much I consume. The thing is, I have some conditions that are attributed to low Mg status (like Mitral valve prolapse, migraines, dysautonomia, tremors, dilated aortic notch, increased oxidative stress, astigmatism and others) so I really need to bring these levels up. On a positive note, my last eco showed NO MVP..vanished, gone! I attribute this to Mg use.

I have the same problem with sodium. Last test was at 136 and the range is 137-145. Copper also came back low but liver stores were normal. Lithium in blood is also low. I can feel when my mag. status is low. I start feeling anxious, small things bother me, adrenaline shoots up, etc. So I constantly have to redose throughout the day. Calcium was always high for years, but it finally came down to normal with added manganese. (Saw a bunch of endocrinologists, they couldn't figure it out) So there's obviously some imbalance of minerals in my body. I checked lead levels just for fun. My value was 1 ug/dl. Normal range is 0 - 10. I don't think that value is significant, although I wouldn't mind getting it out!

I should definitely check the Mag RBC just to be sure. High dose magnesium actually lowers manganese and the opposite is also true. I've been using MAG for years probably at the expense of manganese. I only added manganese a month or so ago. I take both away from each other to keep things balanced.

I got into this whole mercury thing last year, right before I dove into the lyme thing. Andy Cutler wrote a book about how to rid mercury from your body. His method essentially uses DMSA and ALA to chelate. Whether any of this is really true, I have no idea. I did have 6 mercury fillings I later had removed so a lot of this stuff hit home.

There is No dose response with supplementation. Levels always stay the same. I've gone as high as 2 grams per day with no diarrhea (and had the best sleep ever!). Some of it is getting into my body, I just don't know what happens then. Is there a consumption by a virus, bacteria??

[nameless]

Sort of weird that your mag serum levels never change, even with high dosing. Although being .1 below range may not mean a whole lot. It's really difficult to tell using serum mineral testing, as accuracy doesn't seem to be its strong suit.

I know you've had a lot of tests done, but have you been tested for celiac? Or been tested for other nutritional deficiencies? Have your parathyroids and adrenals been checked by your endo?

Get the Mag RBC done and see where it comes in at. Perhaps your serum test is just really inaccurate. You can get your mercury levels checked too, if it's a concern (not sure if hair or serum is best for that).

[Lufega]

PTH and adrenals are fine. What the best way to check mercury? Urine? I will check RBC mag and whole blood manganese when I get some money. What's the best place to get this done??

[Onomj]

PTH and adrenals are fine. What the best way to check mercury? Urine? I will check RBC mag and whole blood manganese when I get some money. What's the best place to get this done??

What's the status these days?

Don't we need Vitamin D to absorb minerals into our bones, perhaps your body is saying that the level of Magnesium you are carrying is probably all you should be carrying, to allow room for other minerals to absorb into the bones.

But then again, i really don't know to much about this, so it could just be some quackery.

[edit]
I also looked at your daily regime in another thread and notice you are taking 5000 iu of D, maybe your serum levels are low because the minerals are all going into your bones?

Edited by Onomj, 06 November 2009 - 01:10 AM.

[aaron_e]

PTH and adrenals are fine. What the best way to check mercury? Urine? I will check RBC mag and whole blood manganese when I get some money. What's the best place to get this done??

deranged mineral transport in a hair mineral analysis is the way Andy Cutler recommends to identify mercury toxicity. he says that since mercury is often low in the hair of toxic people, you have to look at mineral transport signature.

[Lufega]

Selenium deficiency as a cause of overload of iron and unbalanced distribution of other minerals.
Chareonpong-Kawamoto N, Yasumoto K.

Research Institute for Food Science, Kyoto University, Japan.


Abstract
Previous studies have shown that there are hematological abnormalities in selenium (Se)-deficient animals. This study examined the effects of Se deficiency on various minerals in serum and other tissues of male Wistar rats. The animals were given free access to either Torula yeast-based Se-deficient (SeD) diet or Se-adequate (SeA) (containing 0.1 mg Se/kg diet as sodium selenite) diet. Blood was sampled after 12 and 24 weeks, and the rats were killed after 24 weeks, for the analysis of minerals in serum, liver, kidney, heart, and spleen. Analyses showed that Se deficiency affected the concentrations of magnesium, calcium, iron, copper, and zinc in selected tissues and serum. During the entire feeding period, serum iron concentration was 40-58% greater in SeD rats compared with SeA rats. The transferrin saturation with iron was significantly greater in SeD rats than in SeA rats (57-60% versus 30-31%). Iron concentrations in the tissues ranged from 1.1 to 2.5 times higher in SeD rats than in SeA rats (p < 0.05). Similarly but to a lesser extent, the concentrations of zinc and magnesium were significantly greater in the serum of SeD rats compared with SeA rats, and the concentrations of calcium was significantly higher in kidney and spleen and of copper in liver, while the concentration of magnesium was significantly lower in liver and kidney. These results suggest that Se deficiency may cause a secondary overload of iron and unbalanced distribution of other minerals.

PMID: 7766029 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[stephen_b]

How are your BMs? If they are soft due to the quantity Mg supplements, I have to wonder if they aren't actually depleting Mg and other minerals instead. So far I haven't been able to take 600 mg of Mg without a stool softening effect. I backed off the Mg until they firmed up again. Believe me, I can feel the difference on a 12 mile run in muscle tightness/ease of running.

I'm trying magnesium oil with the caveat that I'm still unsure about the transdermal bioavailability (best supporting evidence I've found: Report on Absorption of magnesium sulfate (Epsom salts) across the skin).

[Sillewater]

Am J Cardiol. 1989 Apr 18;63(14):4G-21G.


Cardiovascular consequences of magnesium deficiency and loss: pathogenesis, prevalence and manifestations--magnesium and chloride loss in refractory potassium repletion.
Seelig M.

New York Medical College, Valhalla.

Comment in:

• Am J Cardiol. 2006 Jul 1;98(1):140.

Abstract
Dietary magnesium (Mg) deficiency is more prevalent than generally suspected and can cause cardiovascular lesions leading to disease at all stages of life. The average American diet is deficient in Mg, especially in the young, in alcoholic persons, and in those under stress or with diseases or receiving certain drug therapies, who have increased Mg needs. Otherwise normal, Mg-deficient diets cause arterial and myocardial lesions in all animals studied, and diets that are atherogenic, thrombogenic and cardiovasopathic, as well as Mg-deficient, intensify the cardiovascular lesions, whereas Mg supplementation prevents them. Diuretics and digitalis can intensify an underlying Mg deficiency, leading to cardiac arrhythmias that are refractory unless Mg is added to the regimen. Potassium (K) depletion in diuretic-treated hypertensive patients has been linked to an increased incidence of ventricular ectopy and sudden death. K supplementation alone is not the answer. Mg has been found to be necessary to intracellular K repletion in these patients. Because patients with congestive heart failure and others receiving diuretic therapy are also prone to chloride loss leading to metabolic alkalosis that also interferes with K repletion, the addition of Mg and chloride supplements in addition to the K seems prudent.

Don't know if this is relevant but how's your potassium intake?

[jazzcat]

It sounds like what you describe is an intractable mg. def.

Faulty mineral transport would be seen in a hair analysis that shows different results from accurate blood test results.

You would also have to see some heavy metals not necessarily mercury. How many heavy metals were in the red zone? I think there has to be several red zone heavy metals to conclude you have mercury toxicity. One or two in the red zone is not considered enough.

If you hair results looked similar to your blood test results then you would assume an intractable def. or absorption issues.

If you were low in some other nutrients (copper, B6 and boron, for example) that might explain your mg. def. not improving with high dose supplements. You said you had a copper def. at one point but there is no accurate test for a copper def.

How is your copper deficiency?

http://www.mindandmuscle.net/node/213

Have you tried to let your urine oxidize in light. That is all the lab does to test for porphyrins; expose it to light and see if there is any color change. Testing for porphyrins is considered by Cutler a better test than a provocation test. The lab test for mercury would be a fractionated porphyrin urine test. I believe that specific porphyrins would narrow down the possibility of mercury toxicity versus porphyria.