5 replies to this topic

[gerhard]

I don't mean simply taking, say, DA and NA boosters in the morning and GABA and Serotonin boosters at night.

I mean, how does one determine whether the substances in a stack will compete with one-another, and thereby time them appropriately so that the body absorbs each optimally?
For example, I have heard that Sulbutiamine can interfere with the absorption of other substances, but cannot remember/find what exactly it is incompatible with....

What general rules can I keep in mind in order to answer my own questions instead of spamming here for every possible combination that I consider?

I would rather learn how to determine this myself than simply submit my stack and get a response if anyone sees a combination that shouldn't be ingested concurrently - but, in case that turns out to be the only way to figure this out, to save some time here is my list:


(presently taken simultaneously. it is a whole breakfast of pills!)

Sulbutiamine
Chocamine
Piracetam/Aniracetam/Oxiracetam combination (primarily Pir)
Choline (CDP and and Alpha GPC)
Wellbutrin (300mg)
Rhodiola Rosea
Suma
Eleuthero
Schisandra
Ashwagandha
Calcium Pantothenate
Potassium Iodine
Copper
Manganese
L-Tyrosine
Guggul
DLPA
N-Acetyl-L-Cysteine
Fish Oil
Multivitamins

Thank you, bye!

EDIT: Haha, not particularly relevant to the topic, but I just realized that I had brought home a car full of groceries, brought them into the house, and then forgotten to put any of them away for nearly an hour. Maybe I am taking too much, or maybe I need to add something for my bad memory!

Edited by gerhard, 22 September 2009 - 07:09 PM.

[acantelopepope]

I don't mean simply taking, say, DA and NA boosters in the morning and GABA and Serotonin boosters at night.

I mean, how does one determine whether the substances in a stack will compete with one-another, and thereby time them appropriately so that the body absorbs each optimally?
For example, I have heard that Sulbutiamine can interfere with the absorption of other substances, but cannot remember/find what exactly it is incompatible with....

What general rules can I keep in mind in order to answer my own questions instead of spamming here for every possible combination that I consider?

I would rather learn how to determine this myself than simply submit my stack and get a response if anyone sees a combination that shouldn't be ingested concurrently - but, in case that turns out to be the only way to figure this out, to save some time here is my list:


(presently taken simultaneously. it is a whole breakfast of pills!)

Sulbutiamine
Chocamine
Piracetam/Aniracetam/Oxiracetam combination (primarily Pir)
Choline (CDP and and Alpha GPC)
Wellbutrin (300mg)
Rhodiola Rosea
Suma
Eleuthero
Schisandra
Ashwagandha
Calcium Pantothenate
Potassium Iodine
Copper
Manganese
L-Tyrosine
Guggul
DLPA
N-Acetyl-L-Cysteine
Fish Oil
Multivitamins

Thank you, bye!

EDIT: Haha, not particularly relevant to the topic, but I just realized that I had brought home a car full of groceries, brought them into the house, and then forgotten to put any of them away for nearly an hour. Maybe I am taking too much, or maybe I need to add something for my bad memory!

It's a good question and one that I'd like to hear answered fully as well.

I have experience with many of those supplements.

DLPA, Tyrosine, Chocamine, and Wellbutrin should not be taken together. My guess is that you're either a) not very far into this stack, in which case you will start experiencing b soon--- or b) experiencing inexplicable confusion.

I've had this personal experience... Today is my 2nd attempt to end my Wellbutrin supplementation. While taking Wellbutrin last year I also supplemented with Tyrosine... The effect was good for maybe a week before the mentioned effects were noticed. Luckily someone clued me in. When I stopped taking the Tyrosine, my clarity was much much better.

I also tried taking Chocamine with Wellbutrin recently. I noticed positive mood and alertness, with absolutely no ability to do deep thinking. Again, dopamine reuptake inhibition with excess dopamine is a bad idea.

Finally, I started taking DLPA most recently as I was phasing off Wellbutrin, and I've felt an improvement in lucidity, but this was at 75mg Wellbutrin (down from 300mg a few weeks ago).

I've decided Chocamine is no good: after an initial surge of energy I crash and become lethargic. The benefit/cost is just not worth it.

Today I didn't take any wellbutrin, but instead took:
-2500mg DLPA
-Dopa Mucuna
-5mg Deprenyl
-4.5mg Hydergine

etc.

[mdma]

Jesus christ is that your main food sources? Thats a big load of supplements for the morning!( If only money would grow on trees....)
Ive been asking the very same question too often when i take my supplements together so i recently try to separate them all trough the day.

Now i can be very wrong on this but i believe high protein food can play on the absorption ratio(...).

Edited by mdma, 23 September 2009 - 02:27 AM.

[gerhard]

Hi CantelopePope!

Yes, I am getting very confused, having poor memory, and low energy - no "drive"...VERY different experience from the first few days I was on this stack! Very disappointed.

I will start cutting down on Wellbutrin too. :( What do you think is a safe schedule for that? I have stopped taking 300mg and gone to 150mg the past two days.

But - why do you think that Wellbutrin would cause problems but Deprenyl would be beneficial? Do they not do essentially the same thing, in boosting dopamine further?

If only I could find a vendor selling EMSAM - I drink wine regularly and so cannot use the typical delivery system. :(

[acantelopepope]

Hi CantelopePope!

Yes, I am getting very confused, having poor memory, and low energy - no "drive"...VERY different experience from the first few days I was on this stack! Very disappointed.

I will start cutting down on Wellbutrin too. :( What do you think is a safe schedule for that? I have stopped taking 300mg and gone to 150mg the past two days.

But - why do you think that Wellbutrin would cause problems but Deprenyl would be beneficial? Do they not do essentially the same thing, in boosting dopamine further?

If only I could find a vendor selling EMSAM - I drink wine regularly and so cannot use the typical delivery system. :(

What is your history with Wellbutrin? What are you trying to achieve?

My first advice would be to stick with the Wellbutrin and drop the dopamine precursors, as well as the sulbutiamine and chocamine. Try getting an hour of continuous raised heart rate-- ideally swimming for 20 minutes, jogging for 20 minutes, then using an elliptical or equivalent... But if you could just swim for 20 minutes a day this might clear up a lot of your problems and make you feel great.

Also be careful with taking too many racetams and too much choline. It depends on what you're going for here, but you need to start by finding something that works consistently with the least number of variables and go from there.

[gerhard]

In repsonse to the question of what I am trying to achieve:

Well, a few things.

1) Energy - Sometimes I feel too weak and tired to do anything!
2) Focus - My mind is always wandering, and I cannot "lose myself" in a job that I undertake; since I primarily write and draw/paint, this is a HUGE problem! I can never get into the "groove" of it, or the "Tao" of it, if that makes sense. I cannot become absorbed in anything. This also includes reading: I skim everything, and become very anxious when trying to concentrate on reading. This is terrible for me, such a change from my youth!
3) Visualizing/Abstraction - In both writing and art, this is extremely important. A lot of it comes from experience, of course, but I believe that I have an inordinate number and intensity of problems in these areas. There has been a marked degeneration of my skills in these areas over the last year - very frightening! But perhaps it ties into problem #2 to a great deal - I can only know for sure when I improve.

I believe I suffer from lower dopamine, possibly as a result of unwarranted subjection to various antipsychotics in my childhood. I was also placed on SSRI's and do today experience a significant amount of anhedonia - but, suffering no sexual side effects, I cannot know whether this is directly related to the SSRI use.
I have a compulsion to overeat all day long, but I resist it enough to maintain my weight - at this time. I believe that this may be a clear indicator of dopamine inhibition; I only feel relaxed, calm, and collected when I have eaten a great deal.

But as I said, on my current stack I have become confused and am suffering poor memory, so - who knows. :( I am sort of "flying blind." I would like to try EMSAM but the two local doctors that I have seen are both Abilify pushers; I say I won't use it, and they say they won't write my a prescription for EMSAM because they have never before written a prescription for EMSAM.

So I am a little stuck.

Okay, I have probably bored you too much with my long message! Thank you for reading though! Goodbye!