16 replies to this topic

[taza0]

I recently started taking nootropics. I started with piracetam, and tried 2400mg my first day. My eye muscles tightened and I felt as if I was squinting; I felt this very distinctly. The same effect occured whenever I took piracetam and actually increased when I took CDP-Choline with piracetam. My eyes were also more bloodshot than usual. I experienced these effects for the two weeks I was taking piracetam. Anxious about these symptoms, I stopped taking nootropics. Can anyone explain these effects?

[LifeMirage]

You may be sensitive to cholinergic compounds. Effecting Acetylcholine has been known to increase eye blinking, among other processes. If 800mg has caused the same effect I would recommend another nootropic depending on the effect you are going for. Otherwise try 400-800 mg for 1-2 weeks (unless it occurs again then discontinue taking it) to see if your body can adapt to it, then try increasing the dosage again, but slowly (add 400-800mg every 1-3 days) until you see a positive effect, and be sure to take it in separate doses throughout the day.

[Jowdy]

A rookie question here:

Is CDP Choline (Citicoline) an adequate choline source, therefore a precursor to acetylcholine, if supplementing along with piracetam?

Any suggestions on dosage per 400mg piracetam?

Many thanks.

[mdma]

A rookie question here:

Is CDP Choline (Citicoline) an adequate choline source, therefore a precursor to acetylcholine, if supplementing along with piracetam?

Any suggestions on dosage per 400mg piracetam?

Many thanks.

CDP-choline is a direct Acetylcholine precursor. Since everyone is different i couldnt say exactly the proportion to go with Piracetam, but i know i take 250mg with my first Piracetam dose every day(1.6g X 3). Im sure you ll see people taking three times less, and three times more it depends a lot.
Choline is in a lot of food also, 2 eggs can equal almost 250mg of Choline.

the bio-chemistry of choline is very interesting, and this reply brought me to learn a lot more about it so i just might increase my choline intake...

[Declmem]

my favorite choline source

[rwac]

my favorite choline source

+1

I prefer it to Alpha-GPC

[nito]

do u guys take choline with piracetam or is it just as effective on its own?

[rwac]

do u guys take choline with piracetam or is it just as effective on its own?

piracetam makes me somewhat angry so I don't use it.
It's definitely effective for brain fog, don't know all that much about enhancement.

[mdma]

do u guys take choline with piracetam or is it just as effective on its own?

from wiki:
Piracetam improves the function of the neurotransmitter acetylcholine via muscarinic cholinergic (ACh) receptors which are implicated in memory processes.

Theyre synergic since they work on the same parts of the brain (being memory, learning process and mood).
But im pretty sure choline on its own has similar effect as piracetam, maybe a little less noticeable?

As of today i will switch from 250 mg to 500 mg CDP-Choline daily to see if i can get more out of the Piracetam-Choline combo. I dont see the need to go over 5.0-6.0 g Piracetam daily.

[Declmem]

For me CDP-Choline is amazing on its own. So far, my experiences with piracetam haven't been too positive.

[hamishm00]

I agree with Declmem. I have given up on piracetam, and just use CDP Choline.

[kenj]

Yeah me2, I take CDP-Choline 250mg intermittently/week, and no piracetam/othertamz.

The racetams are a distant memory away, - juggling CDP-Choline, huperzine-A, and ALCAR are sufficient for me.
(BTW, pramiracetam was 'one hell of a drug'. Just, weird.)

[Jowdy]

Great. Thanks for all the responses.

I am especially interesting in hearing more from Declmem and hamishm00. And anyone else, of course.
That is:
1) What are the effects that you've noticed from CDP Choline on its own?
2) How does piracetam affect you, as a whole; any positives?
3) What were the negative effects that led to your discontinuance of it?

I ask this mainly because I've found that 400mg of piracetam, along with 250mg of CDP Choline, is a dose that is effective in settling my attention-deficit problems; in fact, that dose is very similar to the typical 5mg Adderall dose I still take if I need to meet deadlines on certain tedious projects. Of course, the Adderall offers other effects as well, that can be distracting from work.

Also, to throw another question in:
4) Have you used oxiracetam by itself or along with piracetam and Choline? Effects?

[I've read on these forums that someone--Isochroma I think--said he obtained some very euphoric effects from this.]

Of course, I'm taking for granted that my own info and all others' is subjective twofold: the first is a matter each's individual body and chemistry, etc., the second is a matter of taste, what you like or dislike, for whatever reason.

Thanks again for your input.

[Declmem]

Great. Thanks for all the responses.

I am especially interesting in hearing more from Declmem and hamishm00. And anyone else, of course.
That is:
1) What are the effects that you've noticed from CDP Choline on its own?
2) How does piracetam affect you, as a whole; any positives?
3) What were the negative effects that led to your discontinuance of it?

I ask this mainly because I've found that 400mg of piracetam, along with 250mg of CDP Choline, is a dose that is effective in settling my attention-deficit problems; in fact, that dose is very similar to the typical 5mg Adderall dose I still take if I need to meet deadlines on certain tedious projects. Of course, the Adderall offers other effects as well, that can be distracting from work.

Also, to throw another question in:
4) Have you used oxiracetam by itself or along with piracetam and Choline? Effects?

[I've read on these forums that someone--Isochroma I think--said he obtained some very euphoric effects from this.]

Of course, I'm taking for granted that my own info and all others' is subjective twofold: the first is a matter each's individual body and chemistry, etc., the second is a matter of taste, what you like or dislike, for whatever reason.

Thanks again for your input.

1) CDP-Choline cuts my memory problems in half. Without it, I tend to easily forget names/facts, even common words. I use it to alleviate a problem I'm dealing with. No idea if it helps for people with no such problems. None of the other cholines worked for me. Huperzine had much the same effect, though its effects took 3 days to build up, while CDP's benefits are experienced (for me) within an hour.

2) Piracetam gave me a headache without a choline source. When a choline source was added, it didn't give me a headache, but gave me some mild brain fog and not much else.

3) See above

4) I noticed no difference in any of the racetams - I've tried oxi, ani as well as piracetam.

Regarding your use of 400mg - that's a pretty small dose. Actually, it is on my task list to experiment with low doses of piracetam. I hope I'll get similarly good results.

Though, you might try taking the piracetam away to see if it is just the CDP-Choline doing it. That wouldn't surprise me.

Edited by Declmem, 23 September 2009 - 07:53 PM.

[hamishm00]

For me, I started with Piracetam and Lecithin + b5. I went like that for about 6 months. Dosages varied, but usually a few grams of Piracetam and about 5 grams of Lecithin a day. I then added in oxiracetam, and aniracetam.

I switched to Centrophenoxine + Piracetam/oxi/ani - that was a big gear up. Visual accuity increased, colours enhanced, coordination and recall improved. I became 'faster'.

I then switched to CDP Choline with Piracetam - that was the same as above.

I then stopped for about 4-5 months.

I resumed again on CDP Choline. The impact was immediate and the same as above. I've now stopped the CDP Choline and have switched to Huperzine for a bit, with ALCAR/ALA dosing. I'm definitely going to resume the CDP Choline though, and maybe centrophenoxine as well.

I've decided to give the racetams a skip. I don't believe their effect on me is much beyond what CDP Choline + ALCAR / ALCAR Arginate and Huperzine-A give you in terms of a pure nootropic effect (although I'm not denying that there could be an adiditonal improvement with the racetams on top of this kind of stack).

I will revisit piracetam later in life.

Edited by hamishm00, 24 September 2009 - 06:32 AM.

[FunkOdyssey]

I agree that CDP-Choline, generally regarded as a supporting supplement for piracetam, is (ironically) probably more useful than piracetam itself for most people.

[Pike]

I agree that CDP-Choline, generally regarded as a supporting supplement for piracetam, is (ironically) probably more useful than piracetam itself for most people.

This.

Citicoline is a nootropic of itself. Not something that should just be regarded as a Piracetam-compliment.