18 replies to this topic

[kusanagi1977]

In an attempt to improve my memory and overall cognitive abilities, and I am currently taking the following supplements in the morning with breakfast.

Supplement - Dosage - The reason that I am taking it.

Multivitamin - General Health Maintenance.

L-Huperzine A - 200mcg - I am taking this because it inhibits acetylcholinesterase, which breaks down acetylcholine. Acetylcholine being a neurotransmitter that plays a synaptic role in the formation of memory.

Alpha GPC - 300mg - Increases the synthesis and secretion of Acetylcholine.

I am currently taking a Multivitamin everyday, and I am rotating taking L-Huperzine A one day and Alpha GPC the next day.

I have just started taking this stack and have eliminated all other supplements from my stack, except the supplements listed here.

I have not found any literature that would indicate any adverse interaction between L-Huperzine A and Alpha GPC, can I take them both at the same time?

Is my dosage correct? Should I be taking more or less of any of these supplements?

Should I be taking these supplements more than once a day?

Should I be considering any other supplements to include in my stack?

Please provide any insights, critiques or suggestions.

Thank you for taking the time to read this.

[golden1]

you might be keeping too much acetylcholine in your brain. I don't know if it's just galantamine(similar mechanism to huperzine), but if I ever took it with a choline source it was not comfortable at all. I'm pretty sure I was overloading my brain with acetylcholine. I don't like how galantamine feels even without taking choline with it so your experiences may vary.

[Imagination]

I am rotating taking L-Huperzine A one day and Alpha GPC the next day.

Interesting, which day do you notice the best results on?

[Zoroaster]

Uh, yes. Of all nootropics, you have chosen the two that are perhaps most likely to have negative interaction. Increasing your acetylcholine production, and simultaneously inhibiting its breakdown can cause problems. As was mentioned you can cause choline overload. This has happened to me several times. It won't kill you, but it can ruin your day. I wouldn't take them together.

[kusanagi1977]

I am rotating taking L-Huperzine A one day and Alpha GPC the next day.

Interesting, which day do you notice the best results on?

I just started taking them and have thus far only taken the following combination:

Day 1 - Multivitamin + L-Huperzine A @ 100mcg
Day 2 - Multivitamin + Alpha GPC @ 300mg
Day 3 - Multivitamin + L-Huperzine A @ 200mcg -

I experienced diarrhea on day 3, which is a sign of an overdose and or an adverse reaction.
I plan on cutting back to 100mcg for the time being.

The best results I have thus far experienced were on Day 3, even with the adverse reaction that I noted.
I was able to focus on my tasks and coordinate them together with ease.

Today being Day 4 and I plan on the following combination: Multivitamin + Alpha GPC @ 300mg.

Thank you for taking the time to read my post.

[kusanagi1977]

Uh, yes. Of all nootropics, you have chosen the two that are perhaps most likely to have negative interaction. Increasing your acetylcholine production, and simultaneously inhibiting its breakdown can cause problems. As was mentioned you can cause choline overload. This has happened to me several times. It won't kill you, but it can ruin your day. I wouldn't take them together.

Do you think that I should cut out one or another from my regime? I am not taking them both on the same day, I am cycling them.

I ask this because your comment doesn't specify and makes mention of taking them together.

Please clarify exactly what you meant.

Thank you for taking the time to read this post and to comment.

[kusanagi1977]

you might be keeping too much acetylcholine in your brain. I don't know if it's just galantamine(similar mechanism to huperzine), but if I ever took it with a choline source it was not comfortable at all. I'm pretty sure I was overloading my brain with acetylcholine. I don't like how galantamine feels even without taking choline with it so your experiences may vary.

From what you have mentioned you have some experience with this matter, of the nootrpoics that I have chosen which should I take?

Do you recommend any others besides these that I have chosen?

I am very interested in any comments suggestions that all who view this post may have, foremost being their experiences with the combination I have chosen and experiences.

Thank you for reading my post and replying.

[kusanagi1977]

I have also in the past taken between 1 and 3 grams once per day of Piracetam with Choline Citrate a matching set. 3g/3g.

I had mixed results of 'this is working' to 'this isn't doing anything' over a 2 week period, with no adverse reactions. Is this a long enough period?

Is Choline Citrate better than Alpha-GPC

From what I have read, Choline Citrate allows for the natural production of Acetylcholine, and is a messenger molecule which helps a persons overall brain function.

Choline Citrate also seems to have a myriad of other positive effects.

Should Alpha-GPC and Choline Citrate be taken together?

I would think not, as it would likely cause an overdose of Acetylcholine.

Right now I am a little perturbed as to what I should be taking.

I am right now considering not taking any more L-Huperzine A, as I am beginning to believe that inhibiting my brains natural processes is a bad, kick my self in the ass idea.

Comments and suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

[Johann]

I take around 8 mg of Galantamine, 1000 mg of Choline Bitartrate and anywhere from 600 to 2000* mg of Aniracetam every day.  Right now, I'm studying the electron transport chain in detail.  Would hardly be possible without this much acetylcholine running 'round in my brain.  




Maybe you should rethink taking Alpha GPC together with Choline Citrate as both are intended to do the same job: provide your brain with choline.  Take one or the other.  Play around with what feels right. 





* On some days I take more depending upon whether or not I have class.  

Edited by Johann, 24 September 2009 - 09:47 PM.

[kusanagi1977]

I take around 8 mg of Galantamine, 1000 mg of Choline Bitartrate and anywhere from 600 to 2000* mg of Aniracetam every day.  Right now, I'm studying the electron transport chain in detail.  Would hardly be possible without this much acetylcholine running 'round in my brain.  


Maybe you should rethink taking Alpha GPC together with Choline Citrate as both are intended to do the same job: provide your brain with choline.  Take one or the other.  Play around with what feels right. 


* On some days I take more depending upon whether or not I have class.  

Amazing, how long have you been on this stack? What other stacks have you tried?

Which did you try first and in what order?

I will definitely think about what you said in correlation to Alpha GPC and Choline Citrate.

Why do you take Choline Bitartrate instead of Choline Citrate?

Aniracetam is a supplement that I have not studied at all, I will begin researching it.

How long did it take you to get your stack perfected?

What other supplements have you tried?

Thank you for taking the time and reading this post.

Please reply back.

[Zoroaster]

Uh, yes. Of all nootropics, you have chosen the two that are perhaps most likely to have negative interaction. Increasing your acetylcholine production, and simultaneously inhibiting its breakdown can cause problems. As was mentioned you can cause choline overload. This has happened to me several times. It won't kill you, but it can ruin your day. I wouldn't take them together.

Do you think that I should cut out one or another from my regime? I am not taking them both on the same day, I am cycling them.

I ask this because your comment doesn't specify and makes mention of taking them together.

Please clarify exactly what you meant.

Thank you for taking the time to read this post and to comment.

Sorry I should have clarified. I was talking about your idea of combining the two. All these things you're talking about, alpha-gpc, huperzine-A, choline citrate, they all have the same end result. They boost your acetylcholine levels. Combining them isn't necessary. Here's my advice on your choline supplementation plans:

-forget choline citrate, its crap compared to alpha-gpc or huperzine
-if you're going to take something regularly then I wouldn't go with huperzine because over the long term there will be up regulation of natural acetylcholinesterase which means there will be some risidual effects when you finally come off of it and there's a potential for creating a situation where if you don't have your huperzine for the day, your mental abilities are worse than baseline. So if you're looking to take something over the long term I'd go with alpha-gpc (or CDP-choline if you want to check that out).
-Over the short term huperzine actually works pretty well and seems to have more noticeable effects than alpha-gpc IMO
-switching off one and then the other is an interesting idea, but probably not necessary. You're not getting any special long-term benefits out of huperzine so why include it?


You should definitely start looking into racetams, pyritinol, bacopa, or other nootropics that work by different mechanisms if you're looking to expand or improve your stack. Once you've settled on one (Maybe two) different choline sources to work with, you don't need any more choline.

[kusanagi1977]

Uh, yes. Of all nootropics, you have chosen the two that are perhaps most likely to have negative interaction. Increasing your acetylcholine production, and simultaneously inhibiting its breakdown can cause problems. As was mentioned you can cause choline overload. This has happened to me several times. It won't kill you, but it can ruin your day. I wouldn't take them together.

Do you think that I should cut out one or another from my regime? I am not taking them both on the same day, I am cycling them.

I ask this because your comment doesn't specify and makes mention of taking them together.

Please clarify exactly what you meant.

Thank you for taking the time to read this post and to comment.

Sorry I should have clarified. I was talking about your idea of combining the two. All these things you're talking about, alpha-gpc, huperzine-A, choline citrate, they all have the same end result. They boost your acetylcholine levels. Combining them isn't necessary. Here's my advice on your choline supplementation plans:

-forget choline citrate, its crap compared to alpha-gpc or huperzine
-if you're going to take something regularly then I wouldn't go with huperzine because over the long term there will be up regulation of natural acetylcholinesterase which means there will be some risidual effects when you finally come off of it and there's a potential for creating a situation where if you don't have your huperzine for the day, your mental abilities are worse than baseline. So if you're looking to take something over the long term I'd go with alpha-gpc (or CDP-choline if you want to check that out).
-Over the short term huperzine actually works pretty well and seems to have more noticeable effects than alpha-gpc IMO
-switching off one and then the other is an interesting idea, but probably not necessary. You're not getting any special long-term benefits out of huperzine so why include it?


You should definitely start looking into racetams, pyritinol, bacopa, or other nootropics that work by different mechanisms if you're looking to expand or improve your stack. Once you've settled on one (Maybe two) different choline sources to work with, you don't need any more choline.

Your insight and suggestions are very helpful.

I am from your post planning on researching the following:

CDP-choline - I am curious to know the benefits of this compared to Alpha-GPC.

Pyritinol - I have heard of this, but that's as far as my experience goes.

Bacopa - I have never heard of this, this will be the first one I check out.

What do you think about Piracetam compared to other racetams?

I have become more and more concerned with Huperzine A from what I have been reading and from what you have said I believe that tonight I am going to try the following.

Day 4 - Multivitamin + Piracetam @ 2000mg + Alpha-GPC @ 300mg.

Please keep reading my posts and posting replies. I have been greatly enjoying everyone's input and including it in my decision making.

Thank you!

[Johann]

I take around 8 mg of Galantamine, 1000 mg of Choline Bitartrate and anywhere from 600 to 2000* mg of Aniracetam every day.  Right now, I'm studying the electron transport chain in detail.  Would hardly be possible without this much acetylcholine running 'round in my brain.  


Maybe you should rethink taking Alpha GPC together with Choline Citrate as both are intended to do the same job: provide your brain with choline.  Take one or the other.  Play around with what feels right. 


* On some days I take more depending upon whether or not I have class.  

Amazing, how long have you been on this stack? What other stacks have you tried?

Which did you try first and in what order?

I will definitely think about what you said in correlation to Alpha GPC and Choline Citrate.

Why do you take Choline Bitartrate instead of Choline Citrate?

Aniracetam is a supplement that I have not studied at all, I will begin researching it.

How long did it take you to get your stack perfected?

What other supplements have you tried?

Thank you for taking the time and reading this post.

Please reply back.

I've been on this stack for about two weeks now.  I'm hoping that there is not an up regulation in the AcHase w/ the Galatamine as one poster said would happen with the Huperzine A.  





I don't know that there is a big difference in Citrate and Bitartrate.  I've never tried the former but it looks to be very cheap so may give it a try soon.  Every one here seems to be gaga over Alpha GPC so I may check it out.  Right now I am gaga over Aniracetam and plan on buy some Piracetam to take with it.  

[kusanagi1977]

I take around 8 mg of Galantamine, 1000 mg of Choline Bitartrate and anywhere from 600 to 2000* mg of Aniracetam every day.  Right now, I'm studying the electron transport chain in detail.  Would hardly be possible without this much acetylcholine running 'round in my brain.  


Maybe you should rethink taking Alpha GPC together with Choline Citrate as both are intended to do the same job: provide your brain with choline.  Take one or the other.  Play around with what feels right. 


* On some days I take more depending upon whether or not I have class.  

Amazing, how long have you been on this stack? What other stacks have you tried?

Which did you try first and in what order?

I will definitely think about what you said in correlation to Alpha GPC and Choline Citrate.

Why do you take Choline Bitartrate instead of Choline Citrate?

Aniracetam is a supplement that I have not studied at all, I will begin researching it.

How long did it take you to get your stack perfected?

What other supplements have you tried?

Thank you for taking the time and reading this post.

Please reply back.

I've been on this stack for about two weeks now.  I'm hoping that there is not an up regulation in the AcHase w/ the Galatamine as one poster said would happen with the Huperzine A.  

I don't know that there is a big difference in Citrate and Bitartrate.  I've never tried the former but it looks to be very cheap so may give it a try soon.  Every one here seems to be gaga over Alpha GPC so I may check it out.  Right now I am gaga over Aniracetam and plan on buy some Piracetam to take with it.  

Thanks for reading and replying back to this post.

It's been about 3 hours now since I have taken the following combination: Day 4 - Multivitamin + Piracetam @ 2000mg + Alpha-GPC @ 300mg.

I have noticed a little bit of a sense that the front portion of my head seems to be stimulated more so that normal, sort of like it's light headed, it's hard to put into words.

I am very focused though, more so than normal which is a plus.

I don't feel bad in the least and I seem to be a little bit more mellow than normal, which I like.

I really can't say whether I like this overall effect or not.

I will continue to think about this and rate myself accordingly.

Thank you.

[kusanagi1977]

Hi everyone, well yesterday I did not have such a great time with the following stack:

Day 4 - Multivitamin + Piracetam @ 2000mg + Alpha-GPC @ 300mg.

3 Hours in and I did not like the light headed sensation that I received.
4 Hours in and I had a headache that seems to last forever.

Today I took the following stack:

Day 5 - Multivitamin + Piracetam @ 2000mg + Choline Citrate @ 2000mg.

From what I have read, getting a headache is common if you do not match Piracetam with a Choline source, because Piracetam uses the available Choline in your brain quickly.
That is the reason for the newly added Choline source.

It's been about 53 minutes since I have taken my stack and thus far I have not had any side effects, I did eat a meal a little before I took this stack so my metabolism is geared and it should enter my system quickly.

My results so far.

Even though yesterday was not a great day I was able to focus on my tasks well above normal, I was able to transcribe a program to a new task and was generally able to concentrate better.

I did notice that I was more of a 'bitch' than I generally am and took quick note of this and made the appropriate apologies, so I would say that my mood was rotten in generally.

My mood was likely affected by my supplementation and thus that is the primary reason that I changed my stack.

Thank you for reading my post and please post and insights and or questions that you may have.

[Zoroaster]

Its good that you're finding out what works for you. I feel I should point out, though, that Alpha-GPC is choline! (GPC stands for glyceryl phosphoryl choline) So you didn't add a choline source, you just changed choline sources. So if you had a headache, it wasn't because of lack of choline. Either way, the idea that piracetam w/o choline causes headaches is a myth imo. There's controversy on this though. I used to think that taking piracetam without choline gave me headaches. Then I did a little controlled experiment on myself (had my wife randomly administer either piracetam w/choline pills or piracetam w/filler pills) and realized the headaches were all "in my head". Once I convinced myself that choline wasn't necessary I didn't feel headaches anymore.

My point being that you really need to be careful of the placebo effect here. I think recording your daily observations or trying to identify changes in emotion etc are only going to make the placebo effect more pronounced. There's nothing in your stack that should be messing with your emotions or giving you a lightheaded sensation after only one day of administration. My suggestion is just build the best stack you can based on the science, take it for a few weeks, and then try to determine the effect its having.

[kusanagi1977]

Today I took the following:

Day 6 - Multivitamin + Piracetam @ 2000mg + Choline Citrate @ 2000mg.

I am thus far very happy with the results, my motivation seems to be up and my overall thought process is improved.

I have only been on this stack for a few days now and it seems to really be helping me in general.

Does anyone have a similar stack?
What are the differences?
What other nootropics are you taking?

Please let me know of any recommendations, critiques, etc.

Is the 2000mg/2000mg too much or too little?

Thanks for reading this post.

Have a good day.

[kusanagi1977]

Its good that you're finding out what works for you. I feel I should point out, though, that Alpha-GPC is choline! (GPC stands for glyceryl phosphoryl choline) So you didn't add a choline source, you just changed choline sources. So if you had a headache, it wasn't because of lack of choline. Either way, the idea that piracetam w/o choline causes headaches is a myth imo. There's controversy on this though. I used to think that taking piracetam without choline gave me headaches. Then I did a little controlled experiment on myself (had my wife randomly administer either piracetam w/choline pills or piracetam w/filler pills) and realized the headaches were all "in my head". Once I convinced myself that choline wasn't necessary I didn't feel headaches anymore.

My point being that you really need to be careful of the placebo effect here. I think recording your daily observations or trying to identify changes in emotion etc are only going to make the placebo effect more pronounced. There's nothing in your stack that should be messing with your emotions or giving you a lightheaded sensation after only one day of administration. My suggestion is just build the best stack you can based on the science, take it for a few weeks, and then try to determine the effect its having.

Zoroaster,

Yeah, I know that Alpha-GPC is choline, I just don't think that 300mg was enough, I have had a better experience with pairing a choline source with the Piracetam.

The reason that I changed the choline source was mainly for cost reasons, Alpha-GPC is ridiculous compared to Choline Citrate.

The headache in your head experiment is an extremely interesting perspective and is something that I will have to think about and devise an experiment for myself in regard to.

Do you think that 2 weeks is enough time for a stack to register? I ask because I have read other people say a month and longer for any noticeable effects.

I will do ask you ask though because I believe that it will help me in the long run.

Thank you for your post.

[Zoroaster]

Yeah Alpha-GPC is pricey there's no doubt about that. If you're looking for choline on the cheap I don't think there's anything wrong with citrate, bitrate, or lecithin (which is my preferred choice for cheap choline). I do think 2 weeks is enough time for most stacks to kick in. If you're taking pramiracetam, or aniracetam, which are fat soluble and build up in the body over time, it may take longer, but stacks built mostly on water-soluble things, I think if you're not feeling anything different by 2 weeks there's probably something wrong. Though you probably won't feel the full effects for a while longer.