12 replies to this topic

[csrpj]

the common recommendation is 600mg per day, but it's so goddam expensive, and i'm wondering if it makes sense to just take 200mg? i'd be taking it with ALCAR, btw.

[Pike]

don't bother with r-ala if you're on a budget. the "600mg recommendation" seems bogus to me. Even taking ALA, it's warned against pushing the 600mg mark just because you could run the risk of hypoglycemia.

[csrpj]

is a low dose R-ALA per day (100mg) enough to give the synergetic, offsetting-oxidation aspect of ALCAR?

[maxwatt]

is a low dose R-ALA per day (100mg) enough to give the synergetic, offsetting-oxidation aspect of ALCAR?

It would depend how much ALCAR you are taking. A recommendation I have seen is 100 mg per 500 mg of ALCAR, but I doubt anyone really knows for sure. Younger people would, theoretically, need less than older people, as they would generate less ROS, and have more efficient ROS quenching mechanisms than older people. HOWEVER: some researchers now doubt that ALCAR induced increase in ROS is really a problem needing special attention.

[Imagination]

What's the reason for taking this with ALCAR?

[dachshund]

I think the jury's still out on the superiority of R-ALA verses racemic ALA. To bring the cost down you might consider purchasing Geronova Na-RALA bulk powder. I buy it in 100 g tubs from Nutraplanet for about $ 95. A rounded one eighth teaspoon (about the amount provided by those little white plastic dosing spoons provided by most bulk suppliers) is roughly 450 mg Na-RALA which is 70 % by weight R-ALA (320 mg R-ALA).

Na-RALA dissolves easily in water. I ususally dissolve it with a pinch of baking soda and 500 mgs sodium ascorbate and drink. Note, you cannot mix this with ALCAR as it is unstable in the presence of this acidic material and other acids, so don't try to dissolve Na-RALA in juices or soda.

I dissolve it in water, drink it then about 15 minutes later take ALCAR.

Also, for convenience in the afternoon I commonly just take a 600 mg pill of racemic ALA. If you watch sales at Swansons vitamins you can pick up 60 by 600 mg bottles of racemic ALA at about $ 4.50/bottle, very inexpensive and it seems to be fine quality, for a while the bottles had Alipure™ Solvent-free Alpha Lipoic Acid printed on the label, but not any more. Alipure is a branded Cargill product made in Iowa, so that gives me some confidence Swanson seeks out good quality ingredients.

There are tons of posts on ImmInst. relating to the R-ALA verses ALA. Seems like the purists take R-ALA, but I don't think the evidence is terribly compelling that racemic will not work just fine in humans. Prof. Bruce Ames (Biochemist, UC Berkeley) is not convinced that R-ALA is the only way to go, though he does have some business conflict being a scientific advisor to Juvenon Corp., but at 85 + years of age and already famous, I don't see that he has a strong reason to misrepresent his research and risk his scientific reputation for a small supplement company. I go back and forth depending on my budget, and have kind of settled into NA-RALA in the morning then for convenience just pop a racemic pill in the afternoon.

To your good health,
Dachshund

[csrpj]

what is racemic ALA, exactly? is that the same thing as regular ALA, which as far as i understand is SR-ALA or a mixture of S-ALA and R-ALA?

[dachshund]

Yes, racemic ALA is the same as R/S ALA. It is the lower cost variety you usually see in most products, which is a 50 50 mix of the R and S isomer.

[rollo]

how about Higher Power(bb.com brand) R-ALA? it's 200mg x 100 caps for $17ish.... haven't found anything cheaper anywhere else...

[maxwatt]

Yes, racemic ALA is the same as R/S ALA. It is the lower cost variety you usually see in most products, which is a 50 50 mix of the R and S isomer.

S-ALA oxdizes and remains in the cell, and is not recycled liker R-ALA. It is thought by some that having oxidized S-ALA sitting around in your cells is not a good thing. Since only the R-ALA form occurs in nature and is naturally present in your body, the reasoning goes that is the only form you should take. Because S-ALA has not been proven harmfl, others consider it safe to take. I think this is faulty reasoning; if S-ALA proves toxic to some degree in the future, one would have made a very bad bet by taking it, as one would taking cheap racemic ALA.

Racemic carnitine was once cponsidered safe, but proved to cause muscle wasting, which is ironic in that body-builders were taking racemic carnitine to build muscle. Now only l-Carnitine is available, and for good reason. Many amino acids and proteins occur in the body in but one form, usually the levo form. The mirror image form does not partake in metabolic processes in the same way, if at all, and can have adverse effects. This is why I would not use racemic AL, and would advise anyone to avoid it. It's not proven to be harmful, neither has it been proven to be safe.

[dachshund]

Nice post! I see your point. The longer I use supplements the more conservative I become, taking fewer and paying for quality and reputation. I will convert over to the Na-RALA. Thanks for your comments Maxwatt, I always appreciate your input.

[csrpj]

cheaper: http://www.discounta...lics.com/p/AP07

[rautavaara]

R-ALA, especially cheap R-ALA, carries the risk that the product is polymerized, right? I remember reading a study that described the formation of antibodies against ALA caused by these polymers, essentially causing an auto-immune reaction. For some reason I cannot find that exact abstract at the moment, but found some other work about lipoic acid and autimmunity:

"Autoreactivity to lipoate and a conjugated form of lipoate in primary biliary cirrhosis."
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/14724823

I will try to find the other abstract about autoimmunity as well.

If it is true that R-ALA (especially cheaply / improperly manufactured R-ALA) carries the risk of triggering auto-immune reactions, then racemic ALA would certainly be preferred. Of course, properly manufactured and stabilized R-ALA would be better still.

Edited by rautavaara, 29 September 2009 - 11:11 AM.