12 replies to this topic

[tritium]

I have tried many different combinations of piracetam, pramiracetam, oxiracetam, aniracetam, and alpha-gpc. The doses that allow me to sleep the best are:
<2.5g piracetam
<.8g pramiracetam
<.2g oxiracetam
<.2g aniracetam

Although these doses allow sleep somewhat, I can't really feel the effects unless I go above these doses. But, when I do, I cannot sleep at all. I have to take at least 30mg melatonin, 2 grams phenibut, or 100mg benadryl. When I take all these sleeping pills It makes me hungover all day the next day and completely outweighs and nootropic benefit.

Maybe there is something wrong with my brain chemistry. Something I noticed that seemed a little weird is that I sleep somewhat better when taking 10mg piracetam right before sleep. I am not sure what this is causing on the brain's chemistry. Also, I noticed that I have a really slow caffeine metabolism, such that if I drink coffee at 6am, my heart will still be racing at 10pm.

Could the slow caffeine metabolism show the same effect in slow racetam metabolism? What is everyone's experience with doses that allow them to sleep?

[tritium]

I thought racetams were not supposed to have a stimulatory effect. They seem to increase my heart rate somewhat similar to caffeine. Although I have stopped drinking caffeine due to the slow metabolism effect, I still have trouble sleeping when taking more than the above mentioned doses of racetams. What are your thoughts on this?

[golden1]

I thought racetams were not supposed to have a stimulatory effect. They seem to increase my heart rate somewhat similar to caffeine. Although I have stopped drinking caffeine due to the slow metabolism effect, I still have trouble sleeping when taking more than the above mentioned doses of racetams. What are your thoughts on this?

they mess with my sleep if I take them after like 4pm. I can still fall asleep, but I wake up a lot and never feel like I've reached a deep sleep.
Wake up feeling tired.

[tritium]

they mess with my sleep if I take them after like 4pm. I can still fall asleep, but I wake up a lot and never feel like I've reached a deep sleep.
Wake up feeling tired.

Yeah, that's exactly what happens to me except I take them early in the morning and this happens...

[meursault]

Maybe there is something wrong with my brain chemistry.

Maybe you should lay off the supplements for a few days and focus on:
dietary issues
stress relief techniques (try meditation, no work or intense reading about an hour before bed, write down your final thoughts in a journal before going to bed)
exercising
no eating about 2-3 hours before going to bed

Try this for a few days. If sleep doesn't return to normal, try 200-400mg magnesium. A lot of people have had success with magnesium before bed.

Edited by czukles, 29 September 2009 - 03:45 PM.

[tritium]

Maybe you should lay off the supplements for a few days and focus on:
dietary issues
stress relief techniques (try meditation, no work or intense reading about an hour before bed, write down your final thoughts in a journal before going to bed)
exercising
no eating about 2-3 hours before going to bed

Try this for a few days. If sleep doesn't return to normal, try 200-400mg magnesium. A lot of people have had success with magnesium before bed.

Thanks for the info. I have tried laying off all supplements for a week before and my sleep returns to normal. But, I feel in such a better mood when I take racetams. It is kind of like a tradeoff right now between mood and sleep. The more racetams I take, the better I feel, but the less I sleep. I would like to find a solution in which I could maximize both. I have also cut caffeine from my supplements. So, basically you are saying that it is not a normal reaction to have such a stimulatory effect from racetams that lasts all day?

[tritium]

Is there any way to reduce the anticholinergic effect of Benadryl?

[meursault]

Thanks for the info. I have tried laying off all supplements for a week before and my sleep returns to normal. But, I feel in such a better mood when I take racetams. It is kind of like a tradeoff right now between mood and sleep. The more racetams I take, the better I feel, but the less I sleep. I would like to find a solution in which I could maximize both. I have also cut caffeine from my supplements. So, basically you are saying that it is not a normal reaction to have such a stimulatory effect from racetams that lasts all day?

No, I think that the somewhat random combination and dosing of closely related drugs might have undesirable effects on your body, like sleep disruption.

[Zoroaster]

First off, 30mg of melatonin?!?! Are you serious with that dose? For most people the dose response curve peaks at like 3mg. That 30mg is almost definitely inferior in effect to taking 3mg. I take 5mg max. I believe the highest dose I've seen used in scientific studies was 10mg. Same with the 2g phenibut. After 1g, its not going to help you sleep more, its just going to make you more hungover the next day. I like both phenibut and melatonin for sleep, but more is not better.

But benedryl is a crappy way to fall asleep. Try 5-HTP, magnesium, valerian root, bacopa, theanine, hops, lemon balm extract, inisitol, etc. Any of those will help with fewer side effects. I've tried various combinations of all those over the years with pretty good effects. And I have pretty severe insomnia. Some of the other advice mentioned, like meditation and general sleep hygiene will also help.

For your racetam problem, my advice would be to try to drop the oxiracetam. In my experience that's the most stimulating of that group and if you still get good effects from the rest of them it might do the trick for you.

[msied]

Try methylene blue throughout the day. It'll possibly deplete those brain glycogen stores to exhaustion.

[tritium]

I'm fairly sure it was the pram causing the insomnia. I quit taking it for a few days and just took 5g Piracetam and my sleep returned to normal.

Pramiracetam seems to give very sporadic effects for me. The first day my mental clarity is improved like its never been before! Its like all the brain fog is gone completely! The next day I get extreme brain fog. This is either because I didn't sleep the night before or because of tolerance effects. Has anyone else experienced Pramiracetam's hit or miss effects?

By the way, is this the Methylene Blue you are talking about the same Methylene Blue they use in fish tanks? Amazon Methylene Blue

[msied]

I'm fairly sure it was the pram causing the insomnia. I quit taking it for a few days and just took 5g Piracetam and my sleep returned to normal.

Pramiracetam seems to give very sporadic effects for me. The first day my mental clarity is improved like its never been before! Its like all the brain fog is gone completely! The next day I get extreme brain fog. This is either because I didn't sleep the night before or because of tolerance effects. Has anyone else experienced Pramiracetam's hit or miss effects?

By the way, is this the Methylene Blue you are talking about the same Methylene Blue they use in fish tanks? Amazon Methylene Blue

Yes but only about 30 mcg per dose, heavily diluted. Comes out to be $3 a gallon.

[meursault]

Pramiracetam seems to give very sporadic effects for me. The first day my mental clarity is improved like its never been before! Its like all the brain fog is gone completely! The next day I get extreme brain fog. This is either because I didn't sleep the night before or because of tolerance effects. Has anyone else experienced Pramiracetam's hit or miss effects?

Very likely another instance of the placebo effect.