10 replies to this topic

[vrain]

which do you prefer and what effects do you get with one over the other? also which would be healthier - a high dose of caffeine (800mg a day) or a therapeutic dose of adderall? (for add and depression/anxiety)... if you could only use one..

[VespeneGas]

The jury is still out on amphetamine neurotoxicity at therapeutic doses. Consumption of moderate amounts of caffeinated beverages (e.g. coffee, tea) are associated with reduced risk of some diseases in epidemiological studies (grain of salt), and there is a wealth of literature on the subject. I wouldn't recommend 800 mg of caffeine to anyone. Yikes.

Caffeine is pretty crappy for ADD-I IME. Some have good luck with green tea, as the caffeine is modulated by the theanine. Comparing amphetamine to caffeine is kind of an apples and oranges situation... amphetamine is such a more powerful and cleaner drug, it's in a league of it's own (the same can be said of modafinil).

Both substances have acute antidepressant effects, but using them to treat depression could increase risk of abuse, particularly in the case of amphetamine. Chronic low dose amphetamine use results in tolerance to the euphoria inducement of the drug, but not to the attention boost. If you're trying to make yourself feel better, you might find yourself escalating your dose and ruining your sleep/health/brain.

Some people with ADD get an anxiolytic effect from amphetamine, and for some it is anxiogenic. Caffeine, on the other hand, is more likely to cause anxiety in pharmacological doses IMO, while megadosing also retards beneficial effects on working memory and basically turns you into a crackhead.

Also, most people who have tried both prefer dexedrine (dextroamphetamine) over adderall (mixed d and l isomers). I find dexedrine to provide slightly better drive and focus with significantly fewer side effects (tics, jitters, racing heart, etc).

Please be careful, keep your doses low, and only ingest prescription stimulants under the supervision of a medical professional. /end preaching

[vrain]

The jury is still out on amphetamine neurotoxicity at therapeutic doses. Consumption of moderate amounts of caffeinated beverages (e.g. coffee, tea) are associated with reduced risk of some diseases in epidemiological studies (grain of salt), and there is a wealth of literature on the subject. I wouldn't recommend 800 mg of caffeine to anyone. Yikes.

Caffeine is pretty crappy for ADD-I IME. Some have good luck with green tea, as the caffeine is modulated by the theanine. Comparing amphetamine to caffeine is kind of an apples and oranges situation... amphetamine is such a more powerful and cleaner drug, it's in a league of it's own (the same can be said of modafinil).

Both substances have acute antidepressant effects, but using them to treat depression could increase risk of abuse, particularly in the case of amphetamine. Chronic low dose amphetamine use results in tolerance to the euphoria inducement of the drug, but not to the attention boost. If you're trying to make yourself feel better, you might find yourself escalating your dose and ruining your sleep/health/brain.

Some people with ADD get an anxiolytic effect from amphetamine, and for some it is anxiogenic. Caffeine, on the other hand, is more likely to cause anxiety in pharmacological doses IMO, while megadosing also retards beneficial effects on working memory and basically turns you into a crackhead.

Also, most people who have tried both prefer dexedrine (dextroamphetamine) over adderall (mixed d and l isomers). I find dexedrine to provide slightly better drive and focus with significantly fewer side effects (tics, jitters, racing heart, etc).

Please be careful, keep your doses low, and only ingest prescription stimulants under the supervision of a medical professional. /end preaching

When I say 800mg - thats spaced out in 200mg doses throughout the day - total of by the end of the day. Still not good tho in my opinion.
Would it be safe to say in your experience (I'm assuming you've used both) that adderall in therapeutic doses is less anxiety causing than self medicating with hi dose caffeine?

Bottom line is I have been self medicating with caffeine for years (strongly suspect add - will find out for sure next week) - and am wondering if I the harm is outweighing the benefit by using this 'dirtier' drug than adderall - which at therapeutic doses would probably give me more benefit and less harm to health. Keep in mind - we're not talking about a cup or two of coffee a day here. I need hi doses to keep me focused at a normal level.

[VespeneGas]

amphetamine certainly gives me a much stronger therapeutic effect than high dose caffeine (which gives me mental energy and drive, but very little in the way of focus), with fewer side effects. I feel I should reiterate that dexedrine has the net effect of reducing anxiety, whereas adderall increases anxiety, in my experience and that of a lot of people I've talked to.

You may find that a cup of coffee and 10-15 mg amphetamine synergizes well and helps you keep the doses of each stimulant low. Each person's brain is different.

Sounds like you've built up a pretty high caffeine tolerance. I advise caution with amphetamine, as the euphoria inducing/energy inducing effects are much more pronounced than caffeine's, and these are the effects to which users build tolerance. If you keep the dose low, it will help with focus.

[vrain]

amphetamine certainly gives me a much stronger therapeutic effect than high dose caffeine (which gives me mental energy and drive, but very little in the way of focus), with fewer side effects. I feel I should reiterate that dexedrine has the net effect of reducing anxiety, whereas adderall increases anxiety, in my experience and that of a lot of people I've talked to.

You may find that a cup of coffee and 10-15 mg amphetamine synergizes well and helps you keep the doses of each stimulant low. Each person's brain is different.

Sounds like you've built up a pretty high caffeine tolerance. I advise caution with amphetamine, as the euphoria inducing/energy inducing effects are much more pronounced than caffeine's, and these are the effects to which users build tolerance. If you keep the dose low, it will help with focus.

how do you find adderall compares to caffeine(hi dose) for anxiety?

[navyblue]

Personally I find they both cause anxiety for me. The real difference for me between the two is that Adderall seems to be more of a controlled type of energy whereas caffeine is just energy. Adderall seems to organize my thoughts which is a big benefit over caffeine. Adderall also seems to last longer.Also, some of the people on the board say that L-Taurine will help take the edge off as far as anxiety goes. Never tried it myself, but it might help.

Edited by navyblue, 01 October 2009 - 07:47 PM.

[vrain]

Personally I find they both cause anxiety for me. The real difference for me between the two is that Adderall seems to be more of a controlled type of energy whereas caffeine is just energy. Adderall seems to organize my thoughts which is a big benefit over caffeine. Adderall also seems to last longer.Also, some of the people on the board say that L-Taurine will help take the edge off as far as anxiety goes. Never tried it myself, but it might help.

thanks - seems like between the two adderall/dex is coming out the winner

[VespeneGas]

Definitely the winnar over high-dose caffeine, hands down. FWIW, nightly taurine supplementation does seem to reduce stimulant-related anxiety during the day. The days following the nights I forget to take it are often substantially more anxious than normal days.

Blue has made some superb contributions to the taurine thread lately. Makes it look like a no-brainer.

[vasra]

Not to mean to hijack the thread, but how about Modafinil over Adderall?

BTW, what is the availability of these in the US or mail-order? Strictly prescription only? I'm sure there's a black market, but not interested

As for caffeine, I think the side-effects personally are horrible, so I wouldn't even try that. But can't compare to dextroamphetamines.

[navyblue]

Modafinil isn't bad. I used to take because I had extreme low energy during the day. For me it felt more like I just had a good dose (5000mcg) of B12. It is like a really really smooth version of coffee. The energy was good without a jittery feel to it. But as far as organization and motivation goes, it cannot compare with Adderall on any level.

[VespeneGas]

Not to mean to hijack the thread, but how about Modafinil over Adderall?

BTW, what is the availability of these in the US or mail-order? Strictly prescription only? I'm sure there's a black market, but not interested

As for caffeine, I think the side-effects personally are horrible, so I wouldn't even try that. But can't compare to dextroamphetamines.

modafinil is fine for day-to-day management of most of my ADD-I symptoms, while dextroamphetamine is more effective for crunches (essay, exam, etc). Lately I've been combining a microdose (25 mg) of modafinil with my daily 15 mg dexedrine, which works pretty damn well.

These drugs are scheduled and prescription only. Some companies might still ship modafinil to the united states, but it's illegal, so this would fall into the "black market" category to which you made reference.