92 replies to this topic

[Luna]

I had blood tests done (!!!)

I was noted that cholesterol is pretty much the only thing that wasn't good on the chart, even blood sugar is good with the amount of sweets I eat! (71) :D

Well, only HDL cholesterol was off the chart actually..

CHOLESTEROL: 135 - mg/dL
TRIGLYCERIDES: 60 - mg/dL
CHOLESTEROL- HDL: 32 (way too low according to my chart!!!) - mg/dL
CHOLESTEROL-LDL calc: 91 - mg%
CHOLESTEROL/ HDL: 4 - Not stated
NON-HDL_CHOLESTEROL: 103 - mg/dL

I am not sure what the mg% means, I just copied what it said.

My TSH levels were problematic so I had tests done, it's normal now at 2.5 or so (I can't remember exactly and don't have it here), there was full blood chemistry and hormones, also liver/kidney functions.
If anything is needed I will post when I get home!

My "Diet" (right........!),
I usually eat about 900-1400 calories a day, I am trying to lose weight, apparently ever since my TSH level became normal (they were high before, 6.02 last time I remember it being off the chart), I started losing weight, before that I ate pretty much the same and didn't lose weight.

What do I eat?
Morning I'd usually eat Ciniminies (cereals) or some other kind of cereals with lowfat 1% milk, not because of the fat! because it's half the calories of the 3% :X

Noon I eat.. corn schnitzel or maybe a sandwich, usually something like boiled eggs+feta cheese(goat)+lettuce+cucumber+tomato in bread (not sure which type, but it's low calorie not white bread).
Sometimes (although rarely, I seem to always never have the mood for it) I eat meat.
I seem to eat meat anywhere between 0 to maybe 5 times a month.. I am not a vegetarian, I just don't seem to like .. and never in the mood for it unless it's really good.

Dinner is.. pretty much whatever I feel like at the time that is at the fridge, maybe tuna salad, maybe a small sandwich..

I usually take a fruit or two during the day, nectarine or an apple (it's what we have right now :D) and maybe a snack like chocolate.

I also eat salad usually once every day, sometimes two, usually it's just cucumber+tomatoes with maybe olives.

I know my diet sucks in nutritional values.. ^^

Edited by Luna, 02 October 2009 - 05:11 PM.

[DukeNukem]

I had blood tests done (!!!)

I was noted that cholesterol is pretty much the only thing that wasn't good on the chart, even blood sugar is good with the amount of sweets I eat! (71) :D

Well, only HDL cholesterol was off the chart actually..

CHOLESTEROL: 135 - mg/dL
TRIGLYCERIDES: 60 - mg/dL
CHOLESTEROL- HDL: 32 (way too low according to my chart!!!) - mg/dL
CHOLESTEROL-LDL calc: 91 - mg%
CHOLESTEROL/ HDL: 4 - Not stated
NON-HDL_CHOLESTEROL: 103 - mg/dL

I am not sure what the mg% means, I just copied what it said.

My TSH levels were problematic so I had tests done, it's normal now at 2.5 or so (I can't remember exactly and don't have it here), there was full blood chemistry and hormones, also liver/kidney functions.
If anything is needed I will post when I get home!

My "Diet" (right........!),
I usually eat about 900-1400 calories a day, I am trying to lose weight, apparently ever since my TSH level became normal (they were high before, 6.02 last time I remember it being off the chart), I started losing weight, before that I ate pretty much the same and didn't lose weight.

What do I eat?
Morning I'd usually eat Ciniminies (cereals) or some other kind of cereals with lowfat 1% milk, not because of the fat! because it's half the calories of the 3% :X

Noon I eat.. corn schnitzel or maybe a sandwich, usually something like boiled eggs+feta cheese(goat)+lettuce+cucumber+tomato in bread (not sure which type, but it's low calorie not white bread).
Sometimes (although rarely, I seem to always never have the mood for it) I eat meat.
I seem to eat meat anywhere between 0 to maybe 5 times a month.. I am not a vegetarian, I just don't seem to like .. and never in the mood for it unless it's really good.

Dinner is.. pretty much whatever I feel like at the time that is at the fridge, maybe tuna salad, maybe a small sandwich..

I usually take a fruit or two during the day, nectarine or an apple (it's what we have right now :D) and maybe a snack like chocolate.

I also eat salad usually once every day, sometimes two, usually it's just cucumber+tomatoes with maybe olives.

I know my diet sucks in nutritional values.. ^^

You're not going to like my advice.

Eat a LOT more fat, especially saturated fat (from animals and virgin coconut oil). Saturated fat is the best fat to both improve your HDL, and you large LDL (the desirable kind of LDL). Avoid processed oils, especially any oil higher that 10% polyunsaturated fatty acids -- note that olive oil is okay, while canola oil should be avoided. Common modern oils like corn, soy, flax, and peanut oils should be avoided completely, processed or not.

Stop eat gluten grains (wheat being the worst offender). Grains are strongly associated with the presence small particle LDL--the bad type that leads to heart disease.

[Luna]

Thanks for the reply!

I am a not sure if I "don't like it", but I am confused!

Everyone and everywhere I looked says that Saturated fat increases LDL and reduces HDL, I was told to try and eat more fish, omega 3.. exercise (O_o).. so I am confused!
And are there any other sources rather than meat? it's not that I am against eating meat.. it's a mood thing.

[Skötkonung]

Thanks for the reply!

I am a not sure if I "don't like it", but I am confused!

Everyone and everywhere I looked says that Saturated fat increases LDL and reduces HDL, I was told to try and eat more fish, omega 3.. exercise (O_o).. so I am confused!
And are there any other sources rather than meat? it's not that I am against eating meat.. it's a mood thing.

He is referring to something called the 'cholesterol con.' It all has to do with the lipid hypothesis. It proposes a connection between plasma cholesterol level and the development of coronary heart disease.
In simplistic terms the lipid hypothesis is as follows:
a) cholesterol and/or fat in the diet leads to cholesterol and/or fat in the blood;
b) cholesterol and/or fat in the blood causes plaque formation in the arteries and, consequently, heart disease; and, therefore
c) cholesterol and/or fat in the diet causes heart disease.

Sounds simple enough, but problem is there is no hard science behind it. There is a bit of weak, but not fully convincing science that purports to prove a. Less science yet that proves b. Yet we’re all to believe a leads to b and, therefore, causes c.

One scientifically verified fact disproves the whole lot: only about half the people who have heart attacks have elevated cholesterol levels.

I recommend reading this article or this article to understand more about how you can lower your triglycerides. Bascially it comes down to excess carbohydrate consumption. The trick is to consume lower GI unprocessed carbohydrates, and consume more healthy fats.


As for dietary advice, I would eat more meat - whether it is fish, chicken, or beef. High protein diets promote heart health. Instead of eating sugar loaded cereals or processed grains, opt for full fat Greek yogurt with berries and fruits. Eat a lot of green vegetables and sparingly consume tubers.

This will be beneficial for your weight loss as high GI carbohydrates spike insulin (a storage hormone). There is also something called the 'metabolic advantage,' that occurs when on a low carbohydrate diet, which makes it much easier to lose weight.

[Matt]

My cholesterol improved so much after I increased my level of extra virgin olive oil, fish oil, I also ate dark chocolate.... I avoided animal fats as much as a I could. My HDL went from 39 to 59mg/dl

Total : 3.7 (144mg/dl).
HDL: 1.5 (59mg/dl)
LDL: 1.9 (74mg/dl,
Triglycerides: 0.6 (53mg/dl) - this for me can go as low as 35mg/dl.
Total Cholesterol : HDL Ratio 2.5

but i'm also on CR as you probably know...


Luna, you have plenty of time to experiment with which way will work for you. not like you're gonna get a heart attack anytime soon

Edited by Matt, 02 October 2009 - 06:30 PM.

[Luna]

My cholesterol improved so much after I increased my level of extra virgin olive oil, fish oil, I also ate dark chocolate.... I avoided animal fats as much as a I could. My HDL went from 39 to 59mg/dl

Total : 3.7 (144mg/dl).
HDL: 1.5 (59mg/dl)
LDL: 1.9 (74mg/dl,
Triglycerides: 0.6 (53mg/dl) - this for me can go as low as 35mg/dl.
Total Cholesterol : HDL Ratio 2.5

but i'm also on CR as you probably know...


Luna, you have plenty of time to experiment with which way will work for you. not like you're gonna get a heart attack anytime soon

Hey Matt! thank you for the reply
How do you increase those weird oils? :O

should I throw anything from my diet?

I think I am on CR.. usually :D
What else can I do?

[niner]

How do you increase those weird oils? :O

Get some good olive oil, and put it on all sorts of things; vegetables, salads, dip bread in it, I even put it on meat sometimes if I feel like it's too dry.

should I throw anything from my diet?

I'd start with the Ciniminnies. Oatmeal is a great breakfast food, and you can put coconut oil on it! (and blueberries, or chocolate... yum!)

[Matt]

my fave breakfast

oats (porridge) 50g
20g almonds
20g walnuts
80g blueberries
20g lindt dark chocolate on top (not mixed in)
Whey protein drink after it.

Oats are good for cholesterol because it has beta glucan. I would as duke advised stay away from breads and other grains.

Edited by Matt, 02 October 2009 - 09:14 PM.

[DukeNukem]

My cholesterol improved so much after I increased my level of extra virgin olive oil, fish oil, I also ate dark chocolate.... I avoided animal fats as much as a I could. My HDL went from 39 to 59mg/dl

Total : 3.7 (144mg/dl).
HDL: 1.5 (59mg/dl)
LDL: 1.9 (74mg/dl,
Triglycerides: 0.6 (53mg/dl) - this for me can go as low as 35mg/dl.
Total Cholesterol : HDL Ratio 2.5

but i'm also on CR as you probably know...


Luna, you have plenty of time to experiment with which way will work for you. not like you're gonna get a heart attack anytime soon

Honestly, you have room for improvement, although you are still in great shape with these lipid stats. But mine crush yours:

Total C: 221
HDL: 96
Tri: 47
Lp(a): 3

Plus, I measure 50+ other blood markers, for inflammation, and extended glucose, and mine are all outstanding. My systemic inflammation level (C-reactive protein marker), for example, is as low as can be measured. 10 months ago I had a full body scan with zero arterial plaque. I'm 48 yrs old, and as fit as anyone in the lower 20's. 9% body fat, yet my diet is 70% fat. No cardio, btw. I lift weights about 5 times a month on average.

Low fat diets are maximum failure, as completely unhealthy as the USDA recommended high-grain diet.

[Mind]

Remember, at 900-1400 calories, you don't have to worry as much about your macro-nutrient ratios. If you are CR, you get a lot of health benefits. However, well managed low-carb diets do seem to be good for cholesterol levels.

[ajnast4r]

recommendations of increased saturated animal fat are bad, unscientific recommendations... saturated animal fat DOES increase ldl and decrease hdl. im not sure why this keeps popping up here, but this is established medical fact and not up for debate. you should listen to well established medical institutions not some random blogs.

In summary, we have demonstrated that decreased intakes of total fat, saturated fat and cholesterol as part of Step 2 dietary guidelines beneficially lower total plasma cholesterol and LDL-C levels

http://atvb.ahajourn...t/full/19/4/918

In summary, reducing dietary saturated fat is associated with an increase in LDL-receptor abundance of magnitude similar to the decrease in serum LDL-cholesterol. Thus, an important mechanism by which reductions in dietary saturated fatty acids decrease LDL-cholesterol in humans is through an increase in LDL-receptor number

http://www.jlr.org/c...stract/38/3/459

A study to be published in the August 15 edition of the Journal of the American College of Cardiology shows that eating a single meal high in saturated fats effectively blocks the beneficial effects of HDL cholesterol (i.e., "good" cholesterol), and reduces the normal functioning of arteries.

http://heartdisease....sk/a/fatHDL.htm


lower your saturated animal fat intake, prefer saturated vegetable fats to get your saturated fat intake...chocolate, coconut.
increase your monounsaturated fat intake...olive oil, avocado etc... this should be your main source of fat and is the best way to raise hdl
be moderate with your polyunsaturated n6 intake... prefer n3 both long & short chain containing foods...walnuts, flax, fish especially.

decrease high gluten foods like wheat
decrease starchy high GI carbohydrates, favor complex carbohydrates... oats, quinoa, legumes, etc

[health_nutty]

Interesting read:
http://www.ajcn.org/.../full/80/5/1102

[health_nutty]

In general what I've read about fats in nutrition books (fats that heal, fats that kill for example):
Polysaturated fats decrease LDL and HDL
Mono increases HDL and decreases LDL
Saturated increases HDL and increases LDL

I came across this meta-analysis that clearly show saturated fat raises HDL the most of any type of fat.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Effect of dietary fatty acids on serum lipids and lipoproteins. A meta-analysis of 27 trials.
Mensink RP, Katan MB.

Department of Human Biology, Limburg University, Maastricht, The Netherlands.

To calculate the effect of changes in carbohydrate and fatty acid intake on serum lipid and lipoprotein levels, we reviewed 27 controlled trials published between 1970 and 1991 that met specific inclusion criteria. These studies yielded 65 data points, which were analyzed by multiple regression analysis using isocaloric exchanges of saturated (sat), monounsaturated (mono), and polyunsaturated (poly) fatty acids versus carbohydrates (carb) as the independent variables. For high density lipoprotein (HDL) we found the following equation: delta HDL cholesterol (mmol/l) = 0.012 x (carb----sat) + 0.009 x (carb----mono) + 0.007 x (carb---- poly) or, in milligrams per deciliter, 0.47 x (carb----sat) + 0.34 x (carb----mono) + 0.28 x (carb----poly). Expressions in parentheses denote the percentage of daily energy intake from carbohydrates that is replaced by saturated, cis-monounsaturated, or polyunsaturated fatty acids. All fatty acids elevated HDL cholesterol when substituted for carbohydrates, but the effect diminished with increasing unsaturation of the fatty acids. For low density lipoprotein (LDL) the equation was delta LDL cholesterol (mmol/l) = 0.033 x (carb----sat) - 0.006 x (carb----mono) - 0.014 x (carb----poly) or, in milligrams per deciliter, 1.28 x (carb----sat) - 0.24 x (carb----mono) - 0.55 x (carb---- poly). The coefficient for polyunsaturates was significantly different from zero, but that for monounsaturates was not. For triglycerides the equation was delta triglycerides (mmol/l) = -0.025 x (carb----sat) - 0.022 x (carb----mono) - 0.028 x (carb---- poly) or, in milligrams per deciliter, -2.22 x (carb----sat) - 1.99 x (carb----mono) - 2.47 x (carb----poly).(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS)

PMID: 1386252 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Click here to read

[ajnast4r]

I came across this meta-analysis that clearly show saturated fat raises HDL the most of any type of fat.

yes but the hdl becomes less effective, ldl is increased, and ldl receptor density in the liver is decreased so its not the most desirable method for raising hdl

In addition, the investigators found that within six hours of eating the meal high in saturated fat, the protective effects of HDL cholesterol were reduced. Specifically, after the high-saturated-fat meal, substances that cause inflammation were increased in the walls of the arteries - an effect that is normally blocked by HDL cholesterol. After the meal consisting of polyunsaturated fat, however, the anti-inflammatory properties of HDL cholesterol were boosted.

[DukeNukem]

In general what I've read about fats in nutrition books (fats that heal, fats that kill for example):
Polysaturated fats decrease LDL and HDL
Mono increases HDL and decreases LDL
Saturated increases HDL and increases LDL

This is exactly correct. This is why convention wisdom says vegetable oils are healthy, because they lower LDL. BUT!!!!!! This fact IGNORES the various types of LDL (MOST dumbass convention docs NEVER measure the TYPES of LDL! They only measure LDL as a single score -- that's like getting the combined score to a baseball game, it doesn't tell you what you NEED to know). The problem is PUFAs lower the good type of LDL significantly (big particle LDL), and raise the bad type (small particle LDL, such as L).a)).

Saturated fat raises both HDL and big particle LDL. My LDL is considered high by most unenlightened doctors, but I have the healthy type of LDL -- I have nearly zero small particle LDL. And my HDL is thru the roof (higher than 99.999% of the doctors out there).

http://wholehealthso...t-starting.html
http://wholehealthso...ubdividing.html
http://wholehealthso...d-ldl-part.html

http://heartscanblog...bohydrates.html
http://heartscanblog...e-vs-small.html

http://drbganimalpha...y-hecht-md.html
http://drbganimalpha...ngerous-at.html

http://high-fat-nutr...lano-style.html

I could go on and on and on.

It was a 50's study on rabbits (herbivores, for god's sake!!!) that led us down the false road of thinking saturated fat was a bad fat! In fact, it's the healthiest of all fats, the most stable fat in our body, the least prone to oxidation (which is why it doesn't need to be stored in the fridge). Half the fat in our body is saturated fat. Why oh why oh why of why does the medical establishment think it's a bad fat!!!!! If it's so bad, why not tell us to avoid it all together, like trans-fat?

http://www.proteinpo...arians-part-ii/

I'm so sick of dealing with these simplistic foundational issues. There are actually important, cutting-edge issues to be covered, and most of the world is still stuck on the easy stuff. Sheesh.

Edited by DukeNukem, 03 October 2009 - 12:41 AM.

[senseix]

Seriously man, what you say is so true!!!! I was on a low fat diet for years and my choleesterol shot through the roof. Then i added Extra Virgin Organic Coconut Oil to my diet, and wow things improved with in a month!!! And since then i've been a believer. Rememeber it should be high quality animal meat, and high quality saturated fat like Coconut Oil. Not Vegetable Oil ect.

In general what I've read about fats in nutrition books (fats that heal, fats that kill for example):
Polysaturated fats decrease LDL and HDL
Mono increases HDL and decreases LDL
Saturated increases HDL and increases LDL

This is exactly correct. This is why convention wisdom says vegetable oils are healthy, because they lower LDL. BUT!!!!!! This fact IGNORES the various types of LDL (MOST dumbass convention docs NEVER measure the TYPES of LDL! They only measure LDL as a single score -- that's like getting the combined score to a baseball game, it doesn't tell you what you NEED to know). The problem is PUFAs lower the good type of LDL significantly (big particle LDL), and raise the bad type (small particle LDL, such as L).a)).

Saturated fat raises both HDL and big particle LDL. My LDL is considered high by most unenlightened doctors, but I have the healthy type of LDL -- I have nearly zero small particle LDL. And my HDL is thru the roof (higher than 99.999% of the doctors out there).

http://wholehealthso...t-starting.html
http://wholehealthso...ubdividing.html
http://wholehealthso...d-ldl-part.html

http://heartscanblog...bohydrates.html
http://heartscanblog...e-vs-small.html

http://drbganimalpha...y-hecht-md.html
http://drbganimalpha...ngerous-at.html

http://high-fat-nutr...lano-style.html

I could go on and on and on.

It was a 50's study on rabbits (herbivores, for god's sake!!!) that led us down the false road of thinking saturated fat was a bad fat! In fact, it's the healthiest of all fats, the most stable fat in our body, the least prone to oxidation (which is why it doesn't need to be stored in the fridge). Half the fat in our body is saturated fat. Why oh why oh why of why does the medical establishment think it's a bad fat!!!!! If it's so bad, why not tell us to avoid it all together, like trans-fat?

http://www.proteinpo...arians-part-ii/

I'm so sick of dealing with these simplistic foundational issues. There are actually important, cutting-edge issues to be covered, and most of the world is still stuck on the easy stuff. Sheesh.

[Luna]

lower your saturated animal fat intake, prefer saturated vegetable fats to get your saturated fat intake...chocolate, coconut.

Thanks for the reply (the whole thing!)
I am just not sure how I can lower my animal fat intake from near 0 and 0 :D

[Luna]

Saturated fat raises both HDL and big particle LDL. My LDL is considered high by most unenlightened doctors, but I have the healthy type of LDL -- I have nearly zero small particle LDL. And my HDL is thru the roof (higher than 99.999% of the doctors out there).

There is a good type of LDL? :O

So Saturated comes from pretty much anything or are there better sources?
How long after starting will results be shown on the blood panel? I have regular check ups so I can give it a try

[JLL]

Does olive oil really increase HDL? I thought it doesn't affect HDL at all, and possibly lowers LDL.

I don't think the case for saturated fats is quite as simple as "animal fats increase LDL and decrease HDL".

As for how individual saturated fatty acids affect these factors, different studies report different findings. Most reviews on the subject agree that all saturated fatty acids except stearic acid increase LDL (link). Lauric acid has been shown to increase especially HDL (link), while stearic acid was shown to improve the ratio of total cholesterol to HDL more than palmitic or myristic acid (link). In fact, palmitic acid doesn't seem to change HDL one way or the other, whereas myristic acid increases it, albeit less than it increases LDL (link).

Should Saturated Fat Be Avoided in Low-Carb Diets?

Lard, for example, is about 40% saturated (mostly palmitic and stearic acid), 50% monounsaturated and 10% polyunsaturated.

Here's my earlier cholesterol levels:

LDL: 3 mmol/l (117 mg/dl)
HDL: 2.24 mmol/l (87.36 mg/dl)
Total: 5.7 mmol/l (222.3 mg/dl)
Triglycerides: 0.92 mmol/l (81.88 mg/dl)

And here's my current levels:

LDL: 2.4 mmol/l (93.6 mg/dl)
HDL: 2.67 mmol/l (104 mg/dl)
Total: 5.7 mmol/l (222.3 mg/dl)
Triglycerides: 1.5 mmol/l (133.5 mg/dl)

Lots of animal fat before both measurements, but less dairy products before the new results. Also added more palm oil and coconut milk (both high in saturated fat). The triglyceride increase I put down to excess alcohol consumption before the measurement. So yeah, I would also recommend adding saturated fats into your diet to increase HDL.

I'd swap the nectarines and apples for berries, which increase HDL and decrease LDL and are better bang for the fructose buck.

And finally, I'd get rid of the sandwiches and the cereals.

[kismet]

In simplistic terms the lipid hypothesis is as follows:

Strawman. The lipid hypothesis deals with plasma cholesterol. And the lipid hypothesis is right; even someone from "your side" admited that the lipid "hypothesis" is correct (Stephan from whole health); it was merely refined in recent time without changing the concept (LDL vs HDL; modification and oxidation of LDL playing a key role, etc). The same happend with Darwin's theory of evolution by natural selection, but no one goes around crying that Darwin was wrong and refuted.

Edited by kismet, 03 October 2009 - 01:55 PM.

[Mind]

I'm so sick of dealing with these simplistic foundational issues. There are actually important, cutting-edge issues to be covered, and most of the world is still stuck on the easy stuff. Sheesh.

My feeling as well. There is plenty of data out there in the present day to construct a diet that will help you live healthy and longer. If you know what you are doing you can live healthy with a fairly wide range of macro-nutrient ratios. Luna's CR diet was pretty decent to begin with and it is great that she can get feedback here in the forums. That is one reason why people come to Imminst.

However, be sure to also spend a little time getting informed about and thinking about some of the other science/tech involved in rejuvenation and living indefinitely. I don't care how good your diet is or if you are a life long CRONie, you are still going to die of aging. We need cures for diseases, replacement organs, gene repair, AGE removal, and whole lot of other things, before we will be able to kick death in the butt and say "who's your momma!?" And you don't have to be an expert to contribute. I am just a layman when it come to biotech, gentics, and what-not, but I have picked up a lot through reading and conversing with more knowledgeable people. The more you know, the more you will be able to speak about these issues to a wider audience and support the "experts" who are doing the labwork.

[JLL]

Maybe olive oil is not so good for cholesterol? I put olive oil on pretty much everything.

Dietary mono- and polyunsaturated fatty acids similarly affect LDL size in healthy men and women.

The goal of this study was to investigate the effect of the dietary fat composition on LDL peak particle diameter. Therefore, we measured LDL size by gradient gel electrophoresis in 56 (30 men, 26 women) healthy participants in a controlled dietary study. First, all participants received a baseline diet rich in saturated fat for 2 wk; they were then randomly assigned to one of three dietary treatments, which contained refined olive oil [rich in monounsaturated fatty acids (MUFA), n = 18], rapeseed oil [rich in MUFA and (n-3)-polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFA), n = 18], or sunflower oil [rich in (n-6)-PUFA, n = 20] as the principal source of fat for 4 wk. Repeated-measures ANOVA revealed a small, but significant reduction in LDL size during the oil diet phase (-0.36 nm, P = 0.012), which did not differ significantly among the three groups (P = 0.384). Furthermore, affiliation with one of the three diet groups did not contribute significantly to the observed variation in LDL size (P = 0.690). In conclusion, our data indicate that dietary unsaturated fat similarly reduces LDL size relative to saturated fat. However, the small magnitude of this reduction also suggests that the composition of dietary fat is not a major factor affecting LDL size.

[TheFountain]

Why is no one acknowledging or refuting the information posted by ajnast4r?

[Skötkonung]

In simplistic terms the lipid hypothesis is as follows:

Strawman. The lipid hypothesis deals with plasma cholesterol. And the lipid hypothesis is right; even someone from "your side" admited that the lipid "hypothesis" is correct (Stephan from whole health); it was merely refined in recent time without changing the concept (LDL vs HDL; modification and oxidation of LDL playing a key role, etc). The same happend with Darwin's theory of evolution by natural selection, but no one goes around crying that Darwin was wrong and refuted.

From your link:
One of the most well known early modern proponents that saturated fats and cholesterol in the blood are the cause of heart disease was Ancel Keys, whose first paper on the topic was published in 1953^[6], and whose book Eat Well and Stay Well^[7] helped the issue gain popular awareness.^[8]

Ancel Keys chose to study only those countries where both saturated fats consumption and heart disease were high. He ignored other countries that ate similar diet but had low rates of heart disease.

The statistician Russell H. Smith had this to say about the Seven Countries Study:

"The dietary assessment methodology was highly inconsistent across cohorts and thoroughly suspect. In addition, careful examination of the death rates and associations between diet and death rates reveal a massive
set of inconsistencies and contradictions...

It is almost inconceivable that the Seven Countries study was performed with such scientific abandon. It is also dumbfounding how the NHLBI/AHA alliance ignored such sloppiness in their many "rave reviews" of the study...

In summary, the diet-CHD relationship reported for the Seven Countries study cannot be taken seriously by the objective and critical scientist."

Keys manipulated the data by selectively excluding data points that didn't support his conclusion. For example, Norway and Holland had a low incidence of heart disease despite a high intake of saturated fat and Chile had a high incidence of heart disease despite a low intake of saturated fat.

A closer look at past research reveals that no study has ever shown a definitive correlation between saturated fat and heart disease. Started in 1948 and still going, the Framingham study is one of the largest and most highly regarded heart disease studies ever conducted. Dr. George Mann, one of the researchers for the study, has stated that the association of saturated fat and heart disease is “… the greatest scientific deception of this century, perhaps of any century.” Even Dr. William Castelli, who directed the Framingham study for 26 years, said that “the more saturated fat one ate, the more cholesterol one ate, the lower the person’s serum cholesterol.”

Edited by Skotkonung, 03 October 2009 - 09:23 PM.

[Skötkonung]

Why is no one acknowledging or refuting the information posted by ajnast4r?

Because one "source" is an About.com article. The other two use samples where both dietary fat and carbohydrate are high.

[TheFountain]

Why is no one acknowledging or refuting the information posted by ajnast4r?

Because one "source" is an About.com article. The other two use samples where both dietary fat and carbohydrate are high.

My understanding was that the suggestion there was that saturated animal fat was bad, not saturated fats from non-animal sources.

[ajnast4r]

Why is no one acknowledging or refuting the information posted by ajnast4r?

because im the only one with a formal education in nutrition... too mainstream lol

Because one "source" is an About.com article. The other two use samples where both dietary fat and carbohydrate are high.

the article is a summary of the study, and the first sentence of the article refers to the journal in which the study was published. i didnt think it necessary to spend the time to look up the study... moderate to high carbohydrate is the way most people eat, and is the way she described her diet... she is clearly not too careful about her diet, so telling her to switch to a lowcarb/paleo style diet (which is not suited to everyone) would be a waste of time. so the studies and dietary advice i gave are accurate and in-line with the established science.

[JackChristopher]

Everyone and everywhere I looked says that Saturated fat increases LDL and reduces HDL, I was told to try and eat more fish, omega 3.. exercise (O_o).. so I am confused!

It is confusing. But it's OK. We're all confused to one degree or another. Keep in mind nutrition is a young science—there's a lot we don't know. That makes for a lot of disagreeable advice. That's why this thread broke into debate so easily.

A lot of my confusion melted away in time. I feel I know a lot more since reading the forums. Everyone here is obsessed with this subject.

[Luna]

Why is no one acknowledging or refuting the information posted by ajnast4r?

because im the only one with a formal education in nutrition... too mainstream lol

Because one "source" is an About.com article. The other two use samples where both dietary fat and carbohydrate are high.

the article is a summary of the study, and the first sentence of the article refers to the journal in which the study was published. i didnt think it necessary to spend the time to look up the study... moderate to high carbohydrate is the way most people eat, and is the way she described her diet... she is clearly not too careful about her diet, so telling her to switch to a lowcarb/paleo style diet (which is not suited to everyone) would be a waste of time. so the studies and dietary advice i gave are accurate and in-line with the established science.

That last one is confusing me,

she is clearly not too careful about her diet, so telling her to switch to a lowcarb/paleo style diet (which is not suited to everyone) would be a waste of time.

Does it mean you support higher fat, lower carbs - but won't recommend it because I won't stick to it? (which is probably true, I tried atkins once and wasn't able to stick to it, too much things I didn't like and a lot of meat)

Or do you just try to point why it might be useless for them to suggest their diets even if they are right while still believing animal fat is bad?

I think the best way for me would be little by little, add a bit of this, less from that, small steps

I don't really eat much anyways and I am not sure how I eat so many carbs, other than bread and morning cereals (well, and the corn thingy), I have quite a bit of cheese, peanut butter, milk, fruits, vegetables, sometimes meat..

I also still can't find how to follow your advise of lowering my animal fat if I barely eat animal fat.

I need to try and eat more fish, really can't explain why I don't eat meat/fish, (and walnuts/almonds too fall into that category as well when I tried), it's just that I am never in the mood and whenever I try I feel like "bluuuuuuurgh" and don't feel like eating.


Any other suggestions you could think of?

[rwac]

If you only want to change one thing, try dropping the wheat.

Reduce sugar.
Don't be afraid of saturated fat. Drink Whole milk, eat butter, etc.
Stay away from Omega 6 PUFA oils.