9 replies to this topic

[HiQ]

Hi guys.

Obviously, I am new here - so first and foremost let me extend my greetings!

I have had a keen interest in nootropics from way back. However, I have only recently been using (as my law degree is coming to a close and my brain has inevitably felt the strain of 5+ years of law school). Anyway guys, a quick qn that should not take up too much time from some biologically minded learned scholar out there.

I have been taking centrophenoxine. I have found that upon taking 250mg of it, it is far too much and I suffer paradoxical drowsiness and headaches (common side effects from too much from what I understand). However, I have been a consistent and avid user of fish oil supplements for many, many years.

I understand DMAE is one of the constituents of centrophenoxine. I also understand that DMAE is found in concentrated levels in fish. Moreover, too much DMAE (apparently) can result in the aforementioned symptoms.

What I do not know, is whether fish oil 'extracts' (however you choose to describe the supplements) contain DMAE? Or is the DMAE somehow distilled out of the extract? If DMAE is a composite of the extract, then I would tend to believe the headaches and dull headedness would be the result of too much DMAE. Would you agree?

Has anyone else found any contraindications between fish oil and centrophenoxine? I would love to enjoy the benefits of both. However, it seems as if I may have reached an impasse.

[Pike]

I have never heard of DMAE being a fish-oil constitute. If it is, I couldn't imagine it's in anything more than minute concentrations, not enough to make a difference.

If 250mg is too much for you, then just try a lower dosage, but if you find that any dose whatsoever seems to be giving headaches, then you probably don't have much to benefit from choline sources. The headaches (my best guess) are from too much acetylcholine ==> you see it happen w/some piracetam users.

[HiQ]

I have never heard of DMAE being a fish-oil constitute. If it is, I couldn't imagine it's in anything more than minute concentrations, not enough to make a difference.

If 250mg is too much for you, then just try a lower dosage, but if you find that any dose whatsoever seems to be giving headaches, then you probably don't have much to benefit from choline sources. The headaches (my best guess) are from too much acetylcholine ==> you see it happen w/some piracetam users.

Thanks mate.

It is strange though that 200mg ALCAR makes me feel fantastic, which (seemingly) increases Ach; whereas Centrophenoxine gives me these headaches. If it was dependent upon Ach, would not the ALCAR also give me headaches? However, of course I must qualify my statements with my realisation that every person reacts differently.

Thank you for your opinion. It is greatly appreciated.

[Imagination]

I take dmae regularly and when I take fish oil I feel awful. Heart palpitations, insomnia, racing thoughts, slightly depressed/anxiety which i never usually get. I tend to avoid fish oil but continue with the dmae which I have never had a bad reaction too.

When i add the fish oil i felt really alert in the morning and thought is was great at first, but found my self over thinking all day and that night couldn't sleep well.

I have tried this on many seperate occations and get the same thing each time so it wasn't a one off, which i always do with supplements before dismissing them. I don't think it is the fish oil and dmae combo, i think it is just the fish oil alone as I have tried it alone many times. I get a similar reaction when I take choline too.

[HiQ]

Well, this is strange. Today I figured I would take the smallest amount of Centrophenoxine. I took approx 20mg of Centro. I also took about 100mg of ALCAR. That is it. Yet, I still feel quite befuddled. ALCAR alone has never done this to me. How can 20mg of Centro be doing this to me? I was really looking forward to the benefits (especially removal of lipofuscin deposits). I doubt if I lowered the dose any further there would be any appreciable removal of lipofuscin. Anyone out there agree?

[acantelopepope]

Well, this is strange. Today I figured I would take the smallest amount of Centrophenoxine. I took approx 20mg of Centro. I also took about 100mg of ALCAR. That is it. Yet, I still feel quite befuddled. ALCAR alone has never done this to me. How can 20mg of Centro be doing this to me? I was really looking forward to the benefits (especially removal of lipofuscin deposits). I doubt if I lowered the dose any further there would be any appreciable removal of lipofuscin. Anyone out there agree?

Define "befuddled."

[HiQ]

Well, this is strange. Today I figured I would take the smallest amount of Centrophenoxine. I took approx 20mg of Centro. I also took about 100mg of ALCAR. That is it. Yet, I still feel quite befuddled. ALCAR alone has never done this to me. How can 20mg of Centro be doing this to me? I was really looking forward to the benefits (especially removal of lipofuscin deposits). I doubt if I lowered the dose any further there would be any appreciable removal of lipofuscin. Anyone out there agree?

Define "befuddled."

Sorry about the vagueness. By befuddled I suppose I refer to the following symptoms:

A mental numbness. Like all of my senses have been blunted.
I feel like my head is floating with a minor headache (nothing too painful though).
I do feel perhaps slightly more ‘focused’. For example, I seem to focus on the phrases I read more than usual. However, at the same time, I feel unable to think laterally (lateral thinking being of the utmost importance in legal analysis).
With this focus, there is no corresponding ‘sharpness’ or ‘mental agility’. This is really what I was hoping for. I did not expect anything drastic, but perhaps a slight enhancement.

I guess if I had to describe what I subjectively feel succinctly; I would describe it as a ‘very light catatonic state’. I feel as if I could just sit at my desk and stare at a particular phase for hours.

It is perhaps interesting to note that I have also tried Alpha GPC, Piracetam, Aniracetam (at both lower and higher dosages, individually and combined). All of these made me feel similar. ALCAR is the only product that seems to have any positive efficacy for me. The rest have had efficacy, but only negatively (as opposed to feeling no effect at all).

Edited by HiQ, 15 October 2009 - 03:10 AM.

[Imagination]

ALCAR wipes me out, just feel knackerd when I take it. I've never tried it with ALA though which i hear everyone takes the together, although I can't find the reason why anywhere and know one seems to be able to tell me ether! Could this be the cause?

[Pike]

Well, this is strange. Today I figured I would take the smallest amount of Centrophenoxine. I took approx 20mg of Centro. I also took about 100mg of ALCAR. That is it. Yet, I still feel quite befuddled. ALCAR alone has never done this to me. How can 20mg of Centro be doing this to me? I was really looking forward to the benefits (especially removal of lipofuscin deposits). I doubt if I lowered the dose any further there would be any appreciable removal of lipofuscin. Anyone out there agree?

Define "befuddled."

Sorry about the vagueness. By befuddled I suppose I refer to the following symptoms:

A mental numbness. Like all of my senses have been blunted.
I feel like my head is floating with a minor headache (nothing too painful though).
I do feel perhaps slightly more ‘focused’. For example, I seem to focus on the phrases I read more than usual. However, at the same time, I feel unable to think laterally (lateral thinking being of the utmost importance in legal analysis).
With this focus, there is no corresponding ‘sharpness’ or ‘mental agility’. This is really what I was hoping for. I did not expect anything drastic, but perhaps a slight enhancement.

I guess if I had to describe what I subjectively feel succinctly; I would describe it as a ‘very light catatonic state’. I feel as if I could just sit at my desk and stare at a particular phase for hours.

It is perhaps interesting to note that I have also tried Alpha GPC, Piracetam, Aniracetam (at both lower and higher dosages, individually and combined). All of these made me feel similar. ALCAR is the only product that seems to have any positive efficacy for me. The rest have had efficacy, but only negatively (as opposed to feeling no effect at all).

I would say ditch the cholinergics then. All of the ones that gave you problems all deal with ACh. I'm a bit surprised that alcar worked for you given your adverse reactions to agpc, pi, and ani, but if it works then it works. Maybe you could start looking into different classes of nootropics if you still want to pursue it (i.e. dopamine, glutamate, serotonin acting ones). However, w/noots, more isn't always better. If alcar works for you, stick with it.

[HiQ]

Well, this is strange. Today I figured I would take the smallest amount of Centrophenoxine. I took approx 20mg of Centro. I also took about 100mg of ALCAR. That is it. Yet, I still feel quite befuddled. ALCAR alone has never done this to me. How can 20mg of Centro be doing this to me? I was really looking forward to the benefits (especially removal of lipofuscin deposits). I doubt if I lowered the dose any further there would be any appreciable removal of lipofuscin. Anyone out there agree?

Define "befuddled."

Sorry about the vagueness. By befuddled I suppose I refer to the following symptoms:

A mental numbness. Like all of my senses have been blunted.
I feel like my head is floating with a minor headache (nothing too painful though).
I do feel perhaps slightly more ‘focused’. For example, I seem to focus on the phrases I read more than usual. However, at the same time, I feel unable to think laterally (lateral thinking being of the utmost importance in legal analysis).
With this focus, there is no corresponding ‘sharpness’ or ‘mental agility’. This is really what I was hoping for. I did not expect anything drastic, but perhaps a slight enhancement.

I guess if I had to describe what I subjectively feel succinctly; I would describe it as a ‘very light catatonic state’. I feel as if I could just sit at my desk and stare at a particular phase for hours.

It is perhaps interesting to note that I have also tried Alpha GPC, Piracetam, Aniracetam (at both lower and higher dosages, individually and combined). All of these made me feel similar. ALCAR is the only product that seems to have any positive efficacy for me. The rest have had efficacy, but only negatively (as opposed to feeling no effect at all).

I would say ditch the cholinergics then. All of the ones that gave you problems all deal with ACh. I'm a bit surprised that alcar worked for you given your adverse reactions to agpc, pi, and ani, but if it works then it works. Maybe you could start looking into different classes of nootropics if you still want to pursue it (i.e. dopamine, glutamate, serotonin acting ones). However, w/noots, more isn't always better. If alcar works for you, stick with it.

Yes it is surprising. Yeah, I think I will heed your advice and stick with plain old ALCAR. It just seems to give me more mental energy. Could you please detail some of the other alternative nootropics you mention. For example, what nootropics have a serotonin mechanisim of action etc?

As an aside, I was under the impression that only cholinergics assist with memory? However, I am lacking in knowledge when it comes to noots. I have only had the time to scratch the surface of the information out there. When time permits, I may attempt a little more research. Surely, something has to work for me besides ALCAR. I did do the Braverman test. I know there is some hostility toward it in these forums from what I have read. And, I would tend to agree with complaints about the scientific validity of the questionaire. However, it did indicate I was lacking in GABA. But, funnily enough, from what I have read on here, almost everyone who has completed it has been lacking in GABA. So I basically ignored the results. Perhaps, I could look in that direction?