20 replies to this topic

[macdog]

I've been using a new product for the last couple of months, initially to lose a little beer belly weight, and amp up my workouts. However, after two months of usage I noticed that the apparent benefits of this supplement seemed to go well beyond simple baseline metabolic lift, and did that metabolic lifting without the unpleasant side effects I always seem to encounter with the usage of any other energy boosting supplement. Most surprisingly of all, some of the benefits from using this product have continued well after I stopped using it. As someone who has no choice but to take certain medications for a nuerological disorder, it was very common for me to have to take a nap in mid-afternoon, sometimes even if I did have a late afternoon cup of coffee. I have quite simply ceased doing so since taking HOT-ROX, and again, have not picked up the habit since ceasing to take the product. I find this remarkable in that in my experience, most energy products tend to decrease in effectiveness over time and/or have the unwanted side effects increase. I'm pretty sure if I ever took ephedra again I'd just about freak out. The energy level with HOT-ROX is not the jittery nervous energy that is really quite useless nootropically. I've never tried Piracetam or some of the other chemicals, and I'd be very interested to learn how people would compare it to those substances. A big benefit to ROX is its easy availability, it has only been on the market now for two months, but is getting a big push from GNC. It ain't cheap, almost a dollar a pill, but I think it's worth it, especially if (as I subjectively report) the effects are more permanent than transient.

Initially, I was attracted to ROX because they put out a 6 page spread in the GNC magazine whihc in addition to the usual hype, carefully explained the chemistry of how the products in ROX worked separately and individually. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find that description again, and the ROX website is pathetic. What I'll do here is to list what I remember of that description, and the ingredients in ROX. Maybe some of you chemists can point out what is supposed to happen. Any mistakes in the description of the chemical activity is my fault. Here goes:

ROX inhibits the hormone that causes the body to take calories from the bloodstream and deposit them in fat cells.

ROX stimulates the release of fats from storage sites.

ROX is thermogenic, causing some calories to be burned as heat energy

Hemodilation speeds the delivery of nutrients to muscle tissue, and helps to wash lactic acid from the muscles, reducing fatigue and supporting calorie burning muscle. ROX does not stimulate the heart, and may even reduce blood pressure through this hemodilation.

Those are the basic point. Here are the ingredients.

Thiamin 20mg
Niacin 20mg\
Pantothenic Acid 20mg
Pyridoxal-5-phosphate 50mg
B12 (methylcobalamin) 995mcg

The following is listed as the Thermogenic formula
totalling 950mg
N-acetyl-L-tyrosine
MDX complex (3,17-dihydrox-delta-5-etiocholane-7-one-diethylcarbonate)
Sclaremax (a proprietary Salvia sclerea extract)
guggulsterone-Z
guggulsteron-E
caffeine
5-hydroxl-L-tryptophan

I personally vouch for this product's safety and effectiveness. The first time I took this, I did a huge weight lifting regime, and then spent 5 hours doing statistical clustering analysis of four digit lottery numbers by hand FOR FUN! I'd really be interested in hearing other people's reaction to this product.

[Kalepha]

Here's a pretty balanced review of HOT-ROX to supplant (not replace! )) your very good review. If the money is no object, this seems to be a darn good product. Macdog, good find!

Edited by Nate Barna, 07 April 2004 - 08:21 PM.

[bacopa]

As someone who has no choice but to take certain medications for a nuerological disorder, it was very common for me to have to take a nap in mid-afternoon, sometimes even if I did have a late afternoon cup of coffee.

I have OCD which causes me to need more sleep and loss of consistent thought trains every now and than, but not that bad...tell me if you hated ephedra, which I do as well....how does hot rox contribute to weight loss without the amphetamine rapid heart problem?

I do take Piracatem and I'm STILL not sure what kind or to what degree of an effect it has on me cognitively.. [huh]

[shpongled]

I do not think Hot-Rox is anything special at all. I have a few paragraph email I sent to someone asking me about it (and the potential nootropic effects) explaining why but I can't get to it right now because my email program is crashed. I'll post it after the next time I restart my comp (I know, I am really lazy).

[macdog]

I was in the middle of writing a long post on this board when my modem timed out AGAIN and all was lost. I should know better by now. This little Mac of mine was top of line 10 YEARS AGO. Ireally can't get too upset with it, we've been through a lot together. How many homeless people have a laptop after all?

In any case, I decided to call Biotest Labs who make ROX, and their going to send me a pamphlet on the exact chemical actions of ROX. I should get it by Friday, and will try to have it transcribed and posted by the end of the weekend.

[macdog]

PS: I don't know who responded to my request to set me up with avatar, but I so love the one they designed for me I'm thinking about adding it to my tattoo collection. I already have a green dog, the line drawing is a celtic fighting dog from the Book of Kells, and after I got it I had a dream of having that dog, colored green, and I having some adventures together.

I just really love the avatar, and wanted to say thanks to my anonymous benefactor.

On another note while talking to the people at Biotest they indicated that they think ROX may in fact, permanently reset the metabolic rate. Exactly how they don't know yet. This is a very new product, and they've just begun to explore all of the potential benefits. They have many reports of it acting nootropically and becoming more effective with time rather than less, a common downfall for many supplements.

I'd be very interested to hear of the product being used in conjuction with other supplements. Right now I can't afford to, but I really want to try it with Gingko, NO2, and St. John Wort, and maybe Kava. Melatonin as well might be interesting. I have experimented with using it conjunction with yohimbe, an herbal product I have found to be quite powerful. the problem with yohimbe for me has been a tendency to anxiety, but the last time I took it with ROX while I was definitely "amped" it wasn't anxiety. However, there was some mild chest discomfort that didn't seem to heart rate related, and a tingling feeling in my face. Still, while I'm all too willing to absorb some risks in self-experimentation, yohimbe is pretty powerful stuff in my experience, and I don't add to my daily regime lightly.

I'd really, really like to hear from some other who decide to try this out. Just remember that it seems to work best by slowly building to an attack dose over three days, taking it regularly for 6 weeks, and then downdosing.

[shpongled]

Spent forever looking for the email, couldn't find it, but anyway, here's what I think of the ingredients...

Thiamin 20mg
Niacin 20mg\
Pantothenic Acid 20mg
Pyridoxal-5-phosphate 50mg
B12 (methylcobalamin) 995mcg

Just B vitamins (definitely good ones), you should be taking a B complex anyway

-N-acetyl-L-tyrosine

Less bioavailable than L-tyrosine. More expensive. See:

Topall G, Laborit H. Brain tyrosine increases after treating with prodrugs: comparison with tyrosine. J Pharm Pharmacol 1989 Nov;41(11):789-91.

Wykes LJ, House JD, Ball RO, Pencharz PB. Aromatic amino acid metabolism of neonatal piglets receiving TPN: effect of tyrosine precursors. Am J Physiol 1994 Nov;267(5 Pt 1):E672-9.

-3,17-dihydrox-delta-5-etiocholane-7-one-diethylcarbonate

I don't know anything about this. There is no scientific literature on it that I know of. That in itself is enough to warrant quite a bit of caution. According to Biotest it increases T3 levles. This is good for fat loss, not so good for muscle preservation, and won't have any nootropic effects.

-Guggulsterones E & Z

These increase the peripheral T4-T3 conversion rate. A few trials show guggul to cause mild weight loss, only one had adequate design. The same stuff as above applies.

-Caffeine

I'm pretty sure we are all familiar with this ingredient.

-5-HTP

Definitely not "thermogenic," but appetite suppressant. Definitely not nootropic either, likely the opposite, may lead to inability to concentrate.

-Salvia sclerea

Potentially toxic, and it is just an acetylcholinesterase inhibitor. There are much better ones out there. Huperzine A is the best choice IMO. No reason why this would lead to fat burning.

If you are looking for fat burning, there are much better products out there. If you are looking for a nootropic, there are much better products out there. This is mediocre from both points of few and from the point of few of safety.

[shpongled]

On another note while talking to the people at Biotest they indicated that they think ROX may in fact, permanently reset the metabolic rate. Exactly how they don't know yet. This is a very new product, and they've just begun to explore all of the potential benefits. They have many reports of it acting nootropically and becoming more effective with time rather than less, a common downfall for many supplements.

What do you expect them to say? "We think our product sucks?" Seriously they need to offer some good science. They don't. Good science doesn't mean promotional literature with a bunch of big words. You can't base whether a supplement works by user reports, and certainly not by user reports provided by the company.

And, Biotest is among the more dishonest supplement companies out there.

[shpongled]

And just as an add-on I think these are the supplements that are best for good health (as well as neurological health) and improving body composition, and none of them are in Hot-Rox.

Acetyl-L-carnitine (with ALA)
Choline, lecithin
Fish oil
Green tea
Creatine
Whey protein

And in some circumstances, phosphatidylserine

[macdog]

shpongled I totally object to the tone you use in your post. Granted I'm not always innocent of that either, but I'm not a moron. I know those are B vitamins, and I know what caffeine is. As I quite clearly stated I will be recieving their more detailed chemical action analysis and posting it here. As far as Biotest being one of the more dishonest supplement companies, I don't work for Biotest but I think if you're going to say that you should back it up with something other than the force of your sparkling personality. What I can most certainly tell you is that if the product hadn't WORKED, at least for me, I wouldn't have brought it up at all.

The Sclaremax, a proprietary extract of Salvia sclerea, is not to my knowledge available elsewhere. As for it being potentially toxic so is vitamin C. Further, Salvia sclerea is in the same genus as Salvia divinorum, and both are members of the sage family. This family of plants is characterized for producing powerful chemicals. Divinorum extract is one of the most potent hallucinagenic substances ever discovered, and for those of you who haven't tried it, I reccomend doing so before they make it illegal. A word of caution though, you better be sitting down when you do, because for a minute or two you will not be able to control your body. The idea that there MAY be some effect from sclaremax which is nootropic is not totally out there in left feild. I'm not even saying any of this is definite, and I don't work on commision for Biotest or anybody else, but I have been using supplements for well over ten years now, and I'm telling you in my experience there's something to this stuff. That's all.

[shpongled]

shpongled I totally object to the tone you use in your post. Granted I'm not always innocent of that either, but I'm not a moron. I know those are B vitamins, and I know what caffeine is.

I never implied otherwise. Nor was my post directed at you, the information was meant for everyone.

[tlc1018]

Hello. I am new here and I found this website by conducting a search of "Hot Rox". I found the discussion very interesting. I have a few questions though. I want to try the "Hot Rox" but I have a small problem. I am currently being treated for high blood pressure and am taking Norvasc 10 mg and Benicar HCT. I have called my pharmacy and they don't know anything about it, nor does my physician. I really want to begin taking it as my friend has been and he loves it. If you have any information on this or if you can tell me where to look for answers, it would be greatly appreciated.

[shpongled]

You should not take Hot Rox, it has multiple ingredients that increase blood pressure.

[jolly]

I'll see what research I can dig up on Hot Rox myself - might have to give it a try next time someone returns a box....(my family owns two gnc stores). Only downside with me personally is theres no way I want to lose weight!

[mikep]

why Creatine? doesnt it have side effects later on? and also to macdog have you lost any weight using hot-rox?

[shpongled]

Creatine is perfectly safe, although you shouldn't use it if you have a kidney disorder.

[mikep]

shpongled do you think it is its possible to speed up your metabolism without the use of pills ? and are there any pills that will do so if i cant be done naturally

[shpongled]

shpongled do you think it is its possible to speed up your  metabolism without the use of pills ?

Sure. Exercise.

[jolly]

Creatine is especially reccomended if your looking to build muscle, has positive effects on body composition. I would drink plenty of water while on it however.

[lynx]

-3,17-dihydrox-delta-5-etiocholane-7-one-diethylcarbonate

I don't know anything about this. There is no scientific literature on it that I know of. That in itself is enough to warrant quite a bit of caution. According to Biotest it increases T3 levles. This is good for fat loss, not so good for muscle preservation, and won't have any nootropic effects.

Hey, I tried to look into this compound too. I knew they were using some obscure naming convention to hide it's true identity.

I think they are using etiocholane, when it should be Androstane.

http://www.researchp...m/steroid1.html

Then I got to thinking about the claims of T3 increase and bingo.
I am pretty sure that this is 7-keto DHEA in some ancient, precolombian nomenclature.

More BS and obfuscation from a supplement company. What a surprise.

[jolly]

I'm currently @ GNC's annual franchise convention (in vegas this year)- and the company that makes Hot Rox is here. Any questions in particular anyone want me to ask? The convention is monday/tues/wed's, so if anyone has any questions for me to ask, with them or for any other company, post it here, I'll check back tomorrow night, and ask them wednesday.