18 replies to this topic

[AlexInf]

If you want some background, read this, otherwise skip down, lol.
For much of my life, I can remember always delving into my own little world of fantasy pretty much any time I was on my own or bored. e.g. Trying to fall asleep, in the shower, on the bus, etc.
While I'm sure most people can relate to something similar, I went that bit further in that I *looked forward* to these periods. Now when I say I looked forward to it, and went a bit further, I mean A LOT further. It wouldn't be unusual for me to go out of my way, and spend sometimes *hours* just sitting there in my own little fantasy world staring blankly at nothing. Now it wasn't that bad, in that I was still quite productive at life in general, and I'd always pull myself back out after a while due to "wasting time", but it was still a huge addictive time sink none the less.

When I talk about fantasy, I don't mean anything sexually orientated - they were always just huge long, detailed and intricate stories, from "cool" scifi to strange medieval fantasy with me usually as the protagonist (but not always). These were *extremely* deep and realistic - in many cases I would experience strong physiological symptoms; fear, love, hate, etc, and sometimes even pain if I was in it deeply enough. There were even occasions I would forgot it was a fantasy and bring it up in conversation, or try to do it as if it were real - quite embarrassing sometimes, lol.
I'm pretty sure it's not normal to experience physical pain while in a fantasy, and to have it occasional confused with the real would, but I loved my fantasy worlds - they relieved my boredom, so I didn't care (and I couldn't be bothered getting checked out - side question, does this sort of "condition" have a name?).

TLDR:
So now I've been taking Pramiracetam (400mg) & Alpha GPC (300mg) (Synaptine Ultra from Cerebral Health) for approaching now 2.5 months, and slowly but surely I've noticed I had an increasingly lessened tendency to delve into these worlds - in fact I found it *harder* to do so (and remain within them). As of now, I can't even remember the last time I really did it... It feels like it has been weeks. (I am also taking Bacopa, but I really doubt that would be the cause of it).
Is this normal?
Has anyone else experienced similar effects?

It's probably for the better (less wasted time), but I feel like I've lost a special part of me and can't help but feel depressed by it... I "miss" it if you will...

[Pike]

in rats, pram is supposed to enhance goal-oriented drive. anecdotally, pram makes some people "numb." some appreciate the effect, some don't.

[Zoroaster]

Honestly, and I don't mean this offensively, its going to be hard to find someone else who can tell you whether or not they're experiencing similar effects because I doubt many other, if any, people on these boards started out with deep daydreaming like what you're describing. But I wouldn't be surprised if the Pram was having that effect.

As a side note I find your story very interesting. I have never heard of anyone having that kind of ability before and I can understand why you'd be sad to lose that skill. Do you live near a large university or research hospital? There's probably a neurologist or sleep specialist out there somewhere who would love to study you.

[rwac]

Very interesting.

Have you considered putting one of these episodes on paper and see if it makes sense as a short story ?

Edited by rwac, 26 October 2009 - 05:37 AM.

[msied]

What I have to say might hold some interest for you. I've been a big pramiracetam enthusiast since last July and have even stocked myself up on a year-long supply to get me through another year at college. I have a lot of high-stress emotional drama going on with a girl who fades in and out of my life from time to time, coming to me because she's being honest with herself finally, and leaving because "feelings have to reflect reality" and other such bullshit she's poisoning herself with. Pramiracetam made me focus away from that sort of nonsense and more toward academic interests, hence the enthusiasm and appreciation for it. And it worked, and emotionally the anxiety went away and I got to get back on track in my life. But eventually the girl comes back to me, of course, and I'm still taking pram, and it becomes the hardest, most difficult thing in the world for me to express how I feel to her. Words come out, but I can't even take myself altogether seriously. I can blame this on a lot of things, but I can appreciably entertain the idea that pramiracetam made me seem so unemotional and reasonable that I failed to express emotion convincingly enough for her to stick around. Maybe next time.

TLDR; pramiracetam made me into spock and spock isn't a very convincing lover

Edited by msied, 26 October 2009 - 05:49 AM.

[Pike]

actually, after reading your background info i just thought i'd let you know that i had that exact kind of imagination when i was a kid. i've managed to keep some of it as i've grown a bit older, but not the way i used to have it.

good for you for keeping it alive for so long! but yeah, like they said, it's the pram. if you stopped, it would come back, i imagine.

[AlexInf]

Honestly, and I don't mean this offensively, its going to be hard to find someone else who can tell you whether or not they're experiencing similar effects because I doubt many other, if any, people on these boards started out with deep daydreaming like what you're describing. But I wouldn't be surprised if the Pram was having that effect.

As a side note I find your story very interesting. I have never heard of anyone having that kind of ability before and I can understand why you'd be sad to lose that skill. Do you live near a large university or research hospital? There's probably a neurologist or sleep specialist out there somewhere who would love to study you.

I didn't realise it was that unusual, I thought most people fantasised like that to some extent - if only on the bus or trying to fall asleep. I knew I was unusual in that I went out of my way to do so for hours on end...
I'd generally considered it more of a burden than anything else - it was quite "fun" (and almost addictive) to do, but a massive time sink. But now I kind of miss it.
I have tried searching for more specific information on it before, but everything I found was too generalised or "weak" by comparison (the fantasy depth).

Very interesting.

Have you considered putting one of these episodes on paper and see if it makes sense as a short story ?

It's not just one episode - the stories generally span many many "episodes" (when I say "episode" it's not like I can't control it - I voluntarily go "into" it). Sometimes it will span over many weeks in "real life" and *years* in my little world. So they wouldn't exactly be a short story, they'd be novels haha. And I have considered it, and know (to me if I were reading it) that they would make awesome books/tv shows, lol.
But I've never really tried to go all the way and do it... Not sure why; I think partially because it'd feel kind of weird writing up my personal thoughts or something I guess.

actually, after reading your background info i just thought i'd let you know that i had that exact kind of imagination when i was a kid. i've managed to keep some of it as i've grown a bit older, but not the way i used to have it.

It's not really quite the same as when I was a kid - I mean don't get me wrong, we (siblings) loved our "pretend" games, but nothing quite like this. This noticeable started to occur around 10ish and has just progressively become more apparent.

[Pike]

either way, i second the suggestion for you to put your thoughts into writing. i know i sure as hell would like to read one of those stores, or in your case, multi-volumed stories.

[LIB]

What I have to say might hold some interest for you. I've been a big pramiracetam enthusiast since last July and have even stocked myself up on a year-long supply to get me through another year at college. I have a lot of high-stress emotional drama going on with a girl who fades in and out of my life from time to time, coming to me because she's being honest with herself finally, and leaving because "feelings have to reflect reality" and other such bullshit she's poisoning herself with. Pramiracetam made me focus away from that sort of nonsense and more toward academic interests, hence the enthusiasm and appreciation for it. And it worked, and emotionally the anxiety went away and I got to get back on track in my life. But eventually the girl comes back to me, of course, and I'm still taking pram, and it becomes the hardest, most difficult thing in the world for me to express how I feel to her. Words come out, but I can't even take myself altogether seriously. I can blame this on a lot of things, but I can appreciably entertain the idea that pramiracetam made me seem so unemotional and reasonable that I failed to express emotion convincingly enough for her to stick around. Maybe next time.

TLDR; pramiracetam made me into spock and spock isn't a very convincing lover

Dude, stop over analyzing this nutty female and find a more sane one.

[msied]

What I have to say might hold some interest for you. I've been a big pramiracetam enthusiast since last July and have even stocked myself up on a year-long supply to get me through another year at college. I have a lot of high-stress emotional drama going on with a girl who fades in and out of my life from time to time, coming to me because she's being honest with herself finally, and leaving because "feelings have to reflect reality" and other such bullshit she's poisoning herself with. Pramiracetam made me focus away from that sort of nonsense and more toward academic interests, hence the enthusiasm and appreciation for it. And it worked, and emotionally the anxiety went away and I got to get back on track in my life. But eventually the girl comes back to me, of course, and I'm still taking pram, and it becomes the hardest, most difficult thing in the world for me to express how I feel to her. Words come out, but I can't even take myself altogether seriously. I can blame this on a lot of things, but I can appreciably entertain the idea that pramiracetam made me seem so unemotional and reasonable that I failed to express emotion convincingly enough for her to stick around. Maybe next time.

TLDR; pramiracetam made me into spock and spock isn't a very convincing lover

Dude, stop over analyzing this nutty female and find a more sane one.

I can't connect with the sane ones. They're too boring. Besides, now that I've removed the pramiracetam from me, I already found the solution to dealing with this girl. Emotional fortitude is a pretty powerful thing, unfathomably, especially when it's been suddenly upregulated.

But yeah, pram is cool if you need to get intellectual stuff done.

[nanothan]

I have experienced a similar effect as you are talking about. I only took about 500 mg per day for about 3 weeks but, I definitely noticed that I no longer wasted nearly as much time thinking about completely impractical things, and instead spent most of my time thinking about practical things, and when I wrote, I wrote quick and steadily using simple words to express what I wanted, instead of how I was before using it where I would always be pausing during typing and trying to come up with more complicated words to express what I was trying to write. I need to get some more because I think it had a very good effect for me, because I would take simple and real progress any day over wasting the day in a confused, foggy state of vague ideas and megalomania.

[abelard lindsay]

I've found that Phenypiracetam makes it physically impossible for me to day dream. Whenever I start to day dream the thoughts just disintegrate almost immediately and I'm back in the empirical world. It's a really strange feeling.

[msied]

I've found that Phenypiracetam makes it physically impossible for me to day dream. Whenever I start to day dream the thoughts just disintegrate almost immediately and I'm back in the empirical world. It's a really strange feeling.

Seconding this. The best metaphor I can come up with is that it "short-circuits" something in me... perhaps the human side of me. But that living metaphor at the time of taking it gets me really amped so it's all good.

[AlexInf]

I have an interesting update to add - In my eternal quest of finding a "cure" to my very frequent headaches, with many other routes already taken, my doc suggested maybe I was just depressed (or some form of), and that it can "amplify" my sensitivity to them and thus make them appear more frequent and prolonged. My next "path" is 2 months away (yet another specialist), and while a little reluctant to shove more crap in me, I decided I try it.

50mg of Sertraline per day - I did a quick google before I started for Pram and SSRIs and found absolutely nothing concerning side effects; and didn't expect to - Pram is regarded as extremely safe (I am also on Ritalin at the moment as well - up to 60mg per day).
First day was odd... My pupils dilated and a was "high" all day (seriously, I couldn't stop smiling and was extremely horny, lol).
By the 2nd/3rd day, my crazy imagination was very quickly returning, and with vengeance, with the still relaxed feeling.
It has now been over a week, and it feels MUCH worse than it used to. I can't stop doing nothing! All I want to do is just lay down and drift off into my head! It's not just "happy" either, I actually feel *constantly* high - as in illicit drug high (that "warm" feeling inside).
But on the other hand, my headaches have COMPLETELY vanished - this is extremely unusual. This isn't normal right? Is the SSRI supposed to make you feel like this? Or could the Pram/Alpha GPC be complementing it or something?

P.S. Before someone questions it - the headaches are not caused by the Pram or Ritalin; I've been having them (the headaches) constantly since I was little, and only recently started Pram, and only a year before that the Ritalin.

[Pike]

oh my, your doc prescribed you sertraline because he thought that your headaches were depression based?

that, to me, does not seem like the right way to go. did he even recommend that you get more sunlight, exercise, or ask about your diet at all?

[AlexInf]

oh my, your doc prescribed you sertraline because he thought that your headaches were depression based?

that, to me, does not seem like the right way to go. did he even recommend that you get more sunlight, exercise, or ask about your diet at all?

I've already tried all of those - many times, and in many different variations. When I said "with many other routes already taken", I really do mean it; all the "basics" have been ruled out and a whole tone of other possibilities with them. I really am grasping at straws at this point, hence while reluctant, also desperate, and with this actually appearing to work I'm trying to figure out why. I don't believe I've ever had any problems with depression or the like, but with my headaches (so far) completely gone (it's so good not constantly taking paracetamol!), I'm trying to look at other connections at the moment.
And with my weirdo imagination now running free again (it's been weeks since the Pram "killed" it), I've found it interesting that the SSRI is countering the Pram or something; I'm kind of curious about what exactly is going on.

Edited by AlexInf, 13 November 2009 - 10:47 PM.

[Pike]

oh my, your doc prescribed you sertraline because he thought that your headaches were depression based?

that, to me, does not seem like the right way to go. did he even recommend that you get more sunlight, exercise, or ask about your diet at all?

I've already tried all of those - many times, and in many different variations. When I said "with many other routes already taken", I really do mean it; all the "basics" have been ruled out and a whole tone of other possibilities with them. I really am grasping at straws at this point, hence while reluctant, also desperate, and with this actually appearing to work I'm trying to figure out why. I don't believe I've ever had any problems with depression or the like, but with my headaches (so far) completely gone (it's so good not constantly taking paracetamol!), I'm trying to look at other connections at the moment.
And with my weirdo imagination now running free again (it's been weeks since the Pram "killed" it), I've found it interesting that the SSRI is countering the Pram or something; I'm kind of curious about what exactly is going on.

the more i look into it, the more it seems like acetylcholine has a kind of "seesaw" balance with the catecholamines and serotonin. I was pretty aware of the acetylcholine:dopamine kind of seesaw balance before, but more and more googling seems to lead me to believe that ACh might be this way with the rest of the catecholamines and serotonin.

pram, and the rest of the racetams for that matter, would definitely qualify as cholinergics. so if that whole seesaw thing were to hold up... maybe the SSRI is negating the pram that way???

[rebinator]

lol.... no.

Sometimes nootropics reintroduce us to issues made irrelevant by some kind of oxidant abuse, but they certainly do not physically prevent the brain from creating something from 'nothing'.

Your brain may be working differently, but it is certainly no less 'creative'. Some of the posters here have it dead on; articulate those creative impulses through a medium; even something you already have and are familiar with.

[viltro]

This is interesting to me, does anyone know if it might be experienced with other racetams, e.g. piracetam? I'm about to start piracetam for the first time and for me not being able to fantasize like this would be a major drawback.

Never experienced anything like physical pain before (though I do get uncharacteristically aggressive, agitated and hostile if distracted), but I do spend long hours running it scenarios in my head, which can range from complete sci-fi to rehearsing a presentation I plan to give. For me they're quite beneficial for mental preparedness and relaxation, so I can understand why you'd miss i. As far as I'm concerned it's normal, but people indulge to different degrees.

I personally find when I need to get into action for some reason, I'm less likely to do it, could it be you're just more focussed on other things at the moment at the pramacetam is ameliorating your processes? I write mine down, which seems to make it easier to focus on the ideas and allows me to construct a more realistic world, I'll run through scenarios and write down the one I like best that makes a good story. Currently I'm cycling between 4 different stories, pieced together from various protagonist roles, the longest is about 20000 words so far.

I hope you find out what the cause is and get it resolved.