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#1 ajnast4r

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Posted 26 October 2009 - 08:21 PM


post name/credentials/reasons/etc

marc
3rd year nutritional science/dietetics major at CSUS
>5 yrs experience in the supplement industry
~4 yrs of regular contribution to the supplement section on imminst

#2 meursault

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Posted 26 October 2009 - 10:10 PM

I believe ajnast4r would make a great contribution to this project.

I also nominate kismet.

#3 waldemar

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Posted 26 October 2009 - 11:50 PM

If "nominations" are ok, I'd suggest kismet and DukeNukem. :-)

#4 ajnast4r

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Posted 27 October 2009 - 04:50 AM

i've pm'd kismet & duke & will continue to pm anyone else who is nominated.

If "nominations" are ok


yes nominations and suggestions are encouraged :)

Edited by ajnast4r, 27 October 2009 - 04:52 AM.


#5 meursault

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Posted 27 October 2009 - 05:12 PM

nominating "edward"
after all, he has also created some of the best threads on these forums

Edited by czukles, 27 October 2009 - 05:14 PM.


#6 zoolander

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Posted 28 October 2009 - 02:17 AM

I have experiance designing supplements for commercial use. Most of you know my qualifacations

Questions:
1. is this supplement being esigned for market?
2. if so, what is the target shelf-life?
3. Where will it be sold and who are regulatory bodies controlling complementary medicines?
4. What sort of claims will be made?

Stability is a very important part of the design process. Stability testing is also very costly.

One final thing.....this post is in a public forum so what is to stop a supplement company using the formula that we design?

#7 ajnast4r

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Posted 28 October 2009 - 02:37 AM

1. is this supplement being esigned for market?


yes

2. if so, what is the target shelf-life?


std is 2-4 year shelf life. whatever is the best balance of stability & cost

3. Where will it be sold and who are regulatory bodies controlling complementary medicines?


in the states & none

4. What sort of claims will be made?


none

One final thing.....this post is in a public forum so what is to stop a supplement company using the formula that we design?


i hadnt thought of that... but i believe the final formula should be discussed & decided on in private

Edited by ajnast4r, 28 October 2009 - 02:40 AM.


#8 rwac

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Posted 28 October 2009 - 03:31 AM

One final thing.....this post is in a public forum so what is to stop a supplement company using the formula that we design?


Well, once the formula hits the market, it will become public anyway. Do we need to worry about being beaten to market ?

Unless you want to make it a "proprietary blend", which will kinda suck.

Edited by rwac, 28 October 2009 - 03:32 AM.


#9 edward

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Posted 28 October 2009 - 07:27 AM

Thanks for the nomination czukles, at present though I am extremely busy but I would be happy to pop in with suggestions as time permits.

I also have potential conflicts of interest due to the fact that I actually looked into starting a company to produce such a thing last year along with a more advanced booster. Basically I was pissed off that every formula out there had problems with it and the only solution personally was to pick the most cost effective core supplements and then buy bulk powders to fill in the gaps, even the innovative solutions like custom capsule didnt have all the ingredients or the best forms of basic nutrients (probably not cost effective for them)

Anyways when I looked into this, (I actually created an LLC, registered some websites, created a few formulas, wrote a business plan, talked with suppliers and cappers and secured funding).... well the economy collapsed and I didn't have the courage to pull the trigger on the whole thing since I have nursing school going and was also working and didnt want to stretch myself so thin given the economic uncertainty.

I probably won't follow through with my business plan for quite some time but most of the ideas I might throw out are ones I have already researched and included in formulas I created for that venture.

Edited by edward, 28 October 2009 - 07:29 AM.


#10 pycnogenol

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Posted 28 October 2009 - 10:57 PM

post name/credentials/reasons/etc


I nominate - FunkOdyssey

He's very tall, he's very smart, and gosh darn it people like him!

Oh, I also hear he's one wicked dancer. That's gotta count for something.

Wow.

Edited by pycnogenol, 28 October 2009 - 11:02 PM.


#11 ajnast4r

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Posted 28 October 2009 - 11:35 PM

post name/credentials/reasons/etc


I nominate - FunkOdyssey

He's very tall, he's very smart, and gosh darn it people like him!

Oh, I also hear he's one wicked dancer. That's gotta count for something.

Wow.


i emailed him before i even posted these threads ;)

#12 lunarsolarpower

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 03:20 AM

I've emailed Dr. Bruce Ames and asked him to take a look at the project.

#13 waldemar

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 10:21 AM

"One final thing.....this post is in a public forum so what is to stop a supplement company using the formula that we design?"

Well, if we design the perfect* supplement, and one or two companies start selling it, then I'd consider that a wild success.

*) Yes, I know, there is no such thing as perfect.

#14 Anthony_Loera

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 01:19 PM

Ahh... well then, licensing and or certifying these companies and or products comes to mind...

You can do lot's of things to monetize this formultion for the purposes of raising money for the Imminst.org non-profit organization, all that is needed is a little imagination. I personally believe that the making this whole exercise available publicly (and allow google to search the area) will have folks understanding the reasons each ingredient were chosen, discussed etc. This will provide information about your formulation choices to folks, and folks in turn will start to consider the Imminst multi seriously, because of the depth and breath of information that was discussed to produce it.

Typically, in a vitamin supplement company, these discussions are all done behind closed doors and the marketing is very limited for a multi. I believe that is why most multi's have to compete against each other by adding more, and more (going way over the RDA). The "My vitamins have more than yours" marketing mentality is the main way that most average multi producers tend to market.

Smart folks will search around on google and eventually find the discussions that are taking place here regarding multivitamins, and consider the new formulation because of how it was created and why multivitamins with very large doses may not be good at all. (I would say, since we know they will be searching... try posting your new posts with this in mind. Maybe you don't want to type "Multi" in your post as a short way to say "Multivitamin" since most folks may not search for the word "Multi" in google... (a little SEO thinking can go a looong way here to make sure perspective customers find this forum) - anyway, it is a suggestion.

By providing perspective customers information about the formulation, you not only invite discussion but (maybe new members) and people that will trust your formulation based on level headed information. I see no problem monetizing this to help raise money for Imminst. Since it provides people with solid information about your formulation and it's benefits over regular multivitamins that can 'overdose' the public.

Cheers
A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 29 October 2009 - 01:32 PM.


#15 kismet

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 07:10 PM

in the states & none

Anyone gonna ship the multivitamin to Europe? (officially/unofficially?)

"One final thing.....this post is in a public forum so what is to stop a supplement company using the formula that we design?"

Well, if we design the perfect* supplement, and one or two companies start selling it, then I'd consider that a wild success.

*) Yes, I know, there is no such thing as perfect.

Indeed. After all we're a non-profit org and we're in the business of life extension (in this case it's more like 'health extension'). The more companies sell sane formulations the merrier.

Edited by kismet, 29 October 2009 - 07:12 PM.


#16 FunkOdyssey

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 07:27 PM

post name/credentials/reasons/etc


I nominate - FunkOdyssey

He's very tall, he's very smart, and gosh darn it people like him!

Oh, I also hear he's one wicked dancer. That's gotta count for something.

Wow.


Thanks, but I'm definitely not a wicked dancer (might be mutually exclusive with "very tall") :~.

I'm glad to participate though.

#17 Grail

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 11:26 PM

in the states & none


So the rest of the world will be left out? Or simply subject to regulatory approval?

#18 ajnast4r

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 11:28 PM

in the states & none


So the rest of the world will be left out? Or simply subject to regulatory approval?


im sure whoever ends sup selling it will ship internationally... but the target area should be the US due to lack of


Thanks, but I'm definitely not a wicked dancer (might be mutually exclusive with "very tall") :~.

I'm glad to participate though.


we only voted you in because your wife is smoookin :~

Edited by ajnast4r, 29 October 2009 - 11:36 PM.


#19 zoolander

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Posted 31 October 2009 - 02:56 AM

obviously the regulatory bodies are different here in Australia although the new Obama government (I think) has suggested or is implementing a regulatory system similar to that of Australia where there will be a food standards code that regulates food and a therapeutics code that regulates medicines and complementary medicines including diagnostic devices.

I`m going to play the devils advocate and throw some more questions your way......

1. Will the formulation be in softgel, hard tablet or capsule?
-many factors need to be considered here for the color of the softgel (vitamin C can leek into the softgel shell and change it`s color)

2. What will the size of the softgel/tablet/capsule be?
-most consumers do not like to swallow anything greater than a size 20 softgel

3. What will the daily dose be?
-a lot of consumers are not regular pills users (at least that the case here in Australia) so asking them to take more than 4 per day will be an inconvience

4. What about oxidation reactions?

5. Bioavailability?

6. Overage?

7. Ingredient cost and source?

Of course a lot of these questions can be dealth with towards th end of the design process however some have to considered now for example a possible oxidation reaction between fish oil and chromium.

I think one of the most important questions to answer first though is whether this supplement is going to be designed for market or just for interested members. The contract manufacturers here in Australia require a minimum order quantity (MOQ) of 300-500,000 softgels/run and I suspect, considering that the supplement being designed here will be a premium supplement, each run might cost approx. $50,000.

We should also consider the IP associated with the design of this supplement.

#20 Anthony_Loera

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Posted 31 October 2009 - 04:43 PM

Lets get through the voting of ingredients first Zoolander.
http://www.imminst.o...ients-f366.html

Just from what you mentioned about contract manufacturers, it apparently maybe cheaper to produce in the USA.

Cheers
A

#21 ajnast4r

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Posted 31 October 2009 - 10:41 PM

1. Will the formulation be in softgel, hard tablet or capsule?


capsule


2. What will the size of the softgel/tablet/capsule be?
-most consumers do not like to swallow anything greater than a size 20 softgel


most likely 00 capsule


3. What will the daily dose be?
-a lot of consumers are not regular pills users (at least that the case here in Australia) so asking them to take more than 4 per day will be an inconvience


its looking like a 2 capsule dose as of now


4. What about oxidation reactions?


this shouldnt be an issue in dry capsules, no?... common reactants will be excluded, copper/iron/etc

bioavailability


all the ingredients will have research ba


7. Ingredient cost and source?


i've begun to contact contract manufacturers i'm familiar with but im open to suggestions.



I think one of the most important questions to answer first though is whether this supplement is going to be designed for market or just for interested members. The contract manufacturers here in Australia require a minimum order quantity (MOQ) of 300-500,000 softgels/run and I suspect, considering that the supplement being designed here will be a premium supplement, each run might cost approx. $50,000.


this most likely is not going to be marketed to the 'general public' or into retail sellers... although that will be left up to imminst leadship obviously, i just dont see it going that route... my guess is it will be marketed towards the life extension community.

We should also consider the IP associated with the design of this supplement.


what is IP?

#22 lunarsolarpower

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Posted 01 November 2009 - 12:25 AM

We should also consider the IP associated with the design of this supplement.


what is IP?


Intellectual property in this case. In other words anything patentable, trademarkable, copyrightable, etc.

#23 zoolander

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Posted 01 November 2009 - 02:00 PM

Excellent. I`ll chime in then at a later date after the formulation is finalised.

Perhaps I have missed something over the last 6 months or so because the mega dosing mindset seems to have dissapeared. :p That`s a good thing. Two a day is avery nice number especially if it`s just morning and night.

Yep, IP = intellectual property

#24 Anthony_Loera

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Posted 01 November 2009 - 02:23 PM

HMmm...

Just as a side note, if the leadership selects someone else other than our company to do this...

please mention that the mg values in the formulation will be "Elemental values"... otherwise they will quote you the cheapest amount of dirt they have, regardless of the purity for the particular ingredient. (ie Lutein typically is provided at 5% purity as a raw material, so make sure they are providing you the amount of Lutein you want... not the amount of powder that happens to have a purity of 5% Lutein)

Cheers
A

#25 ajnast4r

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Posted 02 November 2009 - 03:40 AM

Excellent. I`ll chime in then at a later date after the formulation is finalised.


excellent, thank you.



Just as a side note, if the leadership selects someone else other than our company to do this...


i think thats unlikely

#26 zoolander

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 10:26 AM

Once the final formulation has been finalized I will suggest that we get multiple quotes from muliple contract manufacturers. This is the tradtional approach. Thank you for your input re. the mg amounts anthony. There are many things that we will need to consider. It's quite different herein Australia producing therapeutics and I will need to take this into account when I chime in.

Edited by zoolander, 04 November 2009 - 10:16 PM.


#27 pycnogenol

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 04:21 PM

Will this formulation be a proprietary blend?

#28 eternaltraveler

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 01:53 PM

Excellent. I`ll chime in then at a later date after the formulation is finalised.

Perhaps I have missed something over the last 6 months or so because the mega dosing mindset seems to have dissapeared. ;) That`s a good thing. Two a day is avery nice number especially if it`s just morning and night.

Yep, IP = intellectual property


I agree. Nice to see something reasonable being discussed. I'll throw my support on board depending somewhat on if the above pans out in the final formulation

#29 eternaltraveler

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 01:56 PM

Once the final formulation has been finalized I will suggest that we get multiple quotes from muliple contract manufacturers. This is the tradtional approach. Thank you for your input re. the mg amounts anthony. There are many things that we will need to consider. It's quite different herein Australia producing therapeutics and I will need to take this into account when I chime in.


also seems reasonable. Trust we have for various manufacturers should be considered. Whoever makes it we should have the final batch independently analyzed with our contract stipulating that we don't pay anything if it does not meet the quality standards we stipulate.

#30 Mind

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 08:38 PM

So far I have appointed ajnast4r (because he is putting in most of the work) and FunkOdyssey (Navigator) to the expert panel. A couple more to come.




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