• Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter Log In with Google      Sign In    
  • Create Account
  LongeCity
              Advocacy & Research for Unlimited Lifespans

Photo
- - - - -

Rasagiline? Looks promising!


  • Please log in to reply
5 replies to this topic

#1 olav23

  • Guest
  • 16 posts
  • 0

Posted 11 April 2004 - 05:56 AM


Hi all,

In my latest quest to read up on Deprenyl, I've noticed a new substance in the pipeline called Rasagiline.

Supposedly its even more selective than Deprenyl, stronger at alleviating cell death in oxygen deprivation studies (I believe thats what the study was) and didn't have the serious metabolites of l-amphetamine, that can get lots of us into trouble....

http://www.biopsychi.../rasagiline.htm

Anyone got any info? Supposedly its almost ready to be released in Europe I believe, or phase 3 clinical trials. So, should it show up in either this country or the sandy beaches of Mexico before too long?

I believe its produced by Teva Pharmaceuticals, and Israeli med manufacturer.

Also, on the Deprenyl front, supposedly a Dep patch is in the works as well. Its about 10mg per day I understand, so maybe someone will cut it into either 1/2 or even 1/4 slices to produce a more usable format for non-Parkinsons patients.

Just thought I'd pass this along...
Olav

#2 fowkes

  • Guest
  • 1 posts
  • 0

Posted 22 April 2004 - 03:00 AM

Olav---

As I see it, there are several potential advantages of rasagiline over deprenyl. However, I do not think the metabolism (hydrolysis) issue is particularly important. L-amphetamine and L-methamphetamine have minimal CNS activity and do not cause the kind of catecholaminergic stimulation (speediness, edginess, attentiveness) or letdown (burnout or "crash") that their optical cousins do, i.e., D-amphetamine (dextroamphetamine) and D-methamphetamine (methamphetamine, or "meth"), which are collectively known as "speed." In terms of selectivity of catecholaminergic effect, deprenyl (and presumably rasagiline) selectively upregulates dopaminergic systems (arrousal, drives, motivation, passions, irritability, etc.) and has minimal effects on norepinephrine and epinephrine systems (which involve allertness, attentiveness, etc.). Having taken deprenyl on and off for years, I can attest that there is no "letdown" or rebound effect, and I do not experience significant norepinephrine-mediated effects, even at ten times my "effective" dose.

The hydrolysis issue may be important for legal reasons. Non-chiral methods for detecting drug residues in urine are not able to distinguish between L- and D-isomers of amphetamine. So some people might appreciate it if rasagiline does not cause a "false positive" urine test for D-amphetamine use.

The selectivity issue (MAO-B over MAO-A) is probably more important from clinical perspective, especially for longer-term use (as is the case with both Parkinson's treatment and longevity applications).

One of the issues that I feel should be extremely important for longevists is the possibility that derivatives of deprenyl -- and possibly rasigiline -- might be neurotoxic. There was a contamination problem with deprenyl back in the early 90s that resulted in premature death of Parkinson's patients in the Parkinson's Disease Research Group study, which was the largest and logest-term study of deprenyl ever undertaken. Although the authors of the paper officially blamed deprenyl for the 60% increased mortality in the deprenyl group, their conclusion is not scientifically defensible. All of the mortalities occurred in 6 months, in the middle a 5-6-year study! In other words, the death *rate* during the study was identical to the control group for the first 2.4 years of the study, it increased by a factor of eight within 2 months, and then returned to identical for the last 2.5 years of the study. The erroneous conclusion of the PDRG-study authors is the reason that deprenyl is currently out of favor as a Parkinson's therapy.

Although I admit that it is possible that some non-deprenyl-related contaminant was responsible for these deaths, I think it is more likely that a quaternary ammonium salt derivative of deprenyl was responsible. The dopaminergic toxicity of MPTP is mediated by MPP+, a quaternary salt metabolite of MPTP. Furhtermore, several mitochondrial Complex-I poisons are quaternary ammonium salts. All of these structures can be considered to be quaternary ammonium analogs of nicotinate (vitamin B3), which is the cofactor for coenzyme 1 (NAD, NADH, the substrate for Complex I). So, if the recipe for deprenyl manufacture is accidentally botched by the addition of too much methylating agent (which adds the N-methyl group) or too much propargylating agent (which adds the N-propargyl group), the result would be a quaternary ammonium analog of deprenyl.

The danger to longevists is that the anti-aging, neuroendocrine-sensitizing, drive-enhancing effects of deprenyl might be easily offset by some small chronic, cumulative neurotoxicity from a quaternary deprenyl analog. Since the authors of the PDRG study managed to keep their "dirty laundry" from public, professional and regulatory knowledge, companies making deprenyl may not be aware that this potential problem exists and not take (simple and easy) steps to ensure that quaternary ammonium reaction byproducts do not end up in the final drug product. I've had anecdotal reports from people who reproducibly get headaches from one deprenyl brand and not from 4-fold larger doses of another deprenyl brand. Such reactions could be caused by immediate hypersensitivity reactions to tablet excipients, but it is also possible that the headaches are a reaction to a neurotoxin. Since preservation of the brain and the functionality of the mind are an integral part of any rational longevity program, there is reason to be cautious.

I am particularly interested in learning whether rasagiline has diminished capacity for forming quaternary ammonium salts. This could easily be parallel to its resistance to hydrolysis. If anybody knows or hears anything about this, please post and/or e-mail me at fowkes@ceri.com.

sponsored ad

  • Advert
Click HERE to rent this advertising spot for SUPPLEMENTS (in thread) to support LongeCity (this will replace the google ad above).

#3 olav23

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 16 posts
  • 0

Posted 22 April 2004 - 02:36 PM

Fowkes-

Thanks so much for your reply. I posted this quite a while back (it feels like!) and hadn't gotten even a single reply. Especially after I heard so many people touting Dep as a wonder drug of the era. I surely thought it woulda been a hot topic, but .. what do I know about mass psychology ;)

Anyway, I do my best to research anything I put into my body and read over many a study of Dep including the one you mentioned about the neurotoxicity study in Parkinsons' patients. Unfortunately I didn't have the chem/pharma background you did so it made me a bit leery. It sounds from what you mention, that its similar to what pulled Tryptophan off the market in the US: a by-product making it into the final product because of bad quality control issues. Since me, like many others in this group, buy our Dep from mexican sources, I'm sure this is something of concern for us all. Unfortunately there is no home prop/meth concentration detection kit. I'm imagining something like a pool testing kit ;)

One thing I have read, that maybe you can comment on, is that the effect of Dep (and I imagine Ras) is an irreversible MAO-B inhibitor. I read that its effect takes up to and possibly even more than 40 days to regenerate to the previous state, so why such a high dosage and such a long term approach? It seems like you could ramp up with a few mg per day for a week-2weeks then stop for a month and a half. Maybe this would minimize the toxicity issue while still getting the long term benefits..

Any opinion?

Thanks again!
Olav

#4 LifeMirage

  • Life Member
  • 1,085 posts
  • 3

Posted 30 April 2004 - 06:21 AM

Rasagiline's a great drug!!

I received a small amount to sample it and its effects were very similar to deprenyl's but stronger and it improved my memory pretty quickly. Deprenyl had no effect on memory for me.

I plan to replace my deprenyl as soon as can either get a large supply or it becomes available by some smart company (for example Axiom or Smil2ebiz).

#5 olav23

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 16 posts
  • 0

Posted 30 April 2004 - 04:30 PM

Strange that you were able to get it already... I had heard that it just finished up phase 3 clinical trials and that:

Teva submitted an application to market rasagiline as a treatment for PD with the European Agency for Evaluation of Medicinal Products (EMEA) on Oct. 10, 2003. Rasagiline was also submitted for review in Canada Sept. 24, 2003 where, upon approval, it will be marketed by Teva Neuroscience, Inc.


And that it also had not been approved by the US FDA yet..

Did you receive a "test batch" somehow? Is it available in other countries without approval?

On another note, I wonder what a therapeutic dosage is to be. It appears that Parkinson's patients receive a 1-2mg dosage once a day. In comparison to what is used for PD patients with Deprenyl and therapeutic longevity doses, its usually split by about 1/5 or even more. (ie. 25mg for PD, 1-5mg for Longevity applications)

Seems rather difficult to cut a 1mg pill to any lower.. Though I guess if its in tablet format, you could split with a pill cutter a few times.

I guess this one is too new for me to become a guinnea pig on. This does sound like an incredible advance though, and it only took like 40 years or so from Dep's creation! :)

Please keep us posted though..

Olav

sponsored ad

  • Advert
Click HERE to rent this advertising spot for SUPPLEMENTS (in thread) to support LongeCity (this will replace the google ad above).

#6 LifeMirage

  • Life Member
  • 1,085 posts
  • 3

Posted 01 May 2004 - 04:56 AM

And that it also had not been approved by the US FDA yet..

Did you receive a "test batch" somehow? Is it available in other countries without approval?


I've been in the field of neuropharmacology for a very long time I know most of the researchers doing the studies on most nootropic drugs, obtaining them is pretty easy for me. It has not been approved anywhere yet.


Please keep us posted though..

I will.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users