38 replies to this topic

[Ghostrider]

Can anyone comment on potential negatives to spending large amounts of time walking on a treadmill which no doubt creates not-completely-natural movement biomechanics/pattern/muscle&joint forces (compared to natural walking obviously). Back when I had no clue about exercise I did a lot of (fast) treadmill running and it was always a very strange feeling in the legs/biomechanics when hopping off after and trying to run normally. Could possibly add up with years of slow but sustained use? Or very possibly could this still be a net-positive over the equivalent time spent sedentary which is bad bad bad?

Would lying down be better?

[lunarsolarpower]

Would lying down be better?

What about lying in a float tank?

[DairyProducts]

I'm pretty surprised more employers aren't advocating treadmill desks in their workplaces yet.

I'm not. Treadmills are $$$ compared to the bulk chairs offices buy. The problems that come from sitting happen over a long period of time, so the employer could care less. If someone figures out how to push exercise balls or one of the less expensive tredmill alternatives to the masses then big money could be made for the sellers and big health gains for the sitters.

Alternatively, some hot shot lawyer could win a case claiming that making their employees sit for so long gave them a bunch of health problems. That would usher in a new era of lawsuit avoidance/mandatory better chair/treadmill buying.

[DairyProducts]

Mark's Daily Apple had an article about this today:
http://www.marksdail...ork/#more-11583
Best part of it is how to argue with your boss. Besides giving him or her the articles from this thread,
"To round everything up, healthy employees are productive employees. Healthier employees incur lower health care costs. They miss fewer workdays. They work better, harder, and smarter when they’re at work. And workers with standing workstations are more energetic and more focused (no crippling back pain to worry about). They also take fewer breaks than sitters (PDF), which, once again, leads to greater productivity."

[Annan]

By far the best chair to ensure correct spinal posture and therefore minimal muscle strain is this one:

By sitting without leaning back, and having the knees lower than the pelvis, the spine is forced to remain straight and allows one to sit comfortably. I have one and use it at the computer, at the table and so on.

.

I did some research about chair types a few years ago and read somewhere that yoga/kneeling chairs aren't good for posture. I've also heard that sitting with a straight back is the worst way to sit, best way is leaning back and second is slouching forward.

Maybe I'm wrong about this, maybe someone else knows more

Video Related Generally: http://www.ted.com/t...it_at_work.html

I definitely agree that standing up is best.

[DairyProducts]

I did some research about chair types a few years ago and read somewhere that yoga/kneeling chairs aren't good for posture. I've also heard that sitting with a straight back is the worst way to sit, best way is leaning back and second is slouching forward.

Maybe I'm wrong about this, maybe someone else knows more

Video Related Generally: http://www.ted.com/t...it_at_work.html

I definitely agree that standing up is best.

That guy's chairs are $800-1000+!
Can you find the research that said the yoga/kneeling chairs aren't good for posture and sitting straight back is the worst?

[Annan]

I did some research about chair types a few years ago and read somewhere that yoga/kneeling chairs aren't good for posture. I've also heard that sitting with a straight back is the worst way to sit, best way is leaning back and second is slouching forward.

Maybe I'm wrong about this, maybe someone else knows more

Video Related Generally: http://www.ted.com/t...it_at_work.html

I definitely agree that standing up is best.

That guy's chairs are $800-1000+!
Can you find the research that said the yoga/kneeling chairs aren't good for posture and sitting straight back is the worst?

Abstract: http://rsna2006.rsna...m?em_id=4435870
Article about it: http://www.medicalne...icles/57654.php

[...]The volunteers were asked to sit in three different positions:

1. Slouching. The person hunches forward, with feet touching the floor.
2. Upright, at 90 degrees, with feet touching the floor.
3. Relaxed, reclined backwards at 135 degrees, with feet touching the floor.

Measurements of spinal angles, spinal disk height, and movements were taken. When undue strain is placed on a disk, it moves - often out of place. The researchers found that the upright position, at 90 degrees, caused disks to move the most, while the relaxed position (135 degrees) caused disks to move the least. In other words, the upright position is the worst for the back, while the relaxed position is the best.[...]

I've not been able to find where I heard about kneeling chairs specifically being bad for posture.

[adamh]

I'm not sure I buy all this at face value. Sure, sitting around all day is not good for you. We've known that for a long time. We've known the benefits of exercise for a long time. A few studies and people are totally convinced that to sit is to die? I don't think so. Buy all the treadmill chairs you want but I'm not hopping on that bandwagon.

Primitive man sat for hours patiently waiting for game to come along. He was much more active than we are overall and I believe its the sedentary lifestyle that is bad, not sitting by itself. But, primitive man was lucky to live to be 40. So while all that activity was good, it was not enough to overcome other problems he had. I don't think paleo man had such a short life because he sat too much.

Remember how long everyone was convinced that saturated fats were deadly? There were many more studies about that than these and the whole medical establishment agreed sat fat was horrible. Now, they find its not all that bad in moderation.

My theory is that if you get enough total exercise you will be fine even if you sit for 8 hours a day. However, I do believe you should break up your sitting sessions and do some walking around every 10 or 20 minutes if possible. No need to run a mile, just walk for a few minutes and your blood will circulate just fine.

Sorry but I'm not about to fund a study to see how true my theory is so we can only discuss it on a theoretical level.

[e Volution]

Primitive man sat for hours patiently waiting for game to come along. He was much more active than we are overall and I believe its the sedentary lifestyle that is bad, not sitting by itself. But, primitive man was lucky to live to be 40. So while all that activity was good, it was not enough to overcome other problems he had. I don't think paleo man had such a short life because he sat too much.

A common incorrect assumption: Paleo Life Expectancy

Remember how long everyone was convinced that saturated fats were deadly? There were many more studies about that than these and the whole medical establishment agreed sat fat was horrible. Now, they find its not all that bad in moderation.

I think most people are still convinced! I know my doctor is...

My theory is that if you get enough total exercise you will be fine even if you sit for 8 hours a day. However, I do believe you should break up your sitting sessions and do some walking around every 10 or 20 minutes if possible. No need to run a mile, just walk for a few minutes and your blood will circulate just fine.

Get up every 10 to 20 minutes and walk around for a few minutes!? I am sorry do you live in the real world? Do you work? Do you watch TV/Movies with friends/family? Do you go to conferences/lectures? This is not practical advice for most people...

On the whole I agree with you, I believe our genotype encodes a lazy over-eater (just a like a lion or many many other carnivores). I think it is the modern sedentarism that is the problem, sitting all day on chairs instead the ground or more natural environments, extended periods of no movement at all, computers forcing our posture into forward rounded position (look up crossed postural syndrome for more on this), and a plethora of other discordances.

This is why I see the appeal in a treadmill desk (not that I have implemented one yet). ANY time you can spend deviating from sitting will be beneficial, because in the modern world you will be forced to sit for long periods at work, at school, at a play with your date, waiting for your doctor, at conferences, pretty much most areas of life. And lets not forget the 1/3 of our lives we spend lying down already! So I see a treadmill desk as a small but healthy alternative, with the benefit being accumulative. In the short term the effects are negligible, but medium to long term you are replacing huge chunk of neutral or negative inactivity with extremely healthy scientifically proven effective slow walking.