19 replies to this topic

[Davevanza]

I have been taking Avanza ( Mirtazapine) 90mg/ day for 4 years, but do not notice any nootropic effect, except sedation and hypnotic effect.

According to research in Wikipedia :

".....Mirtazapine appears to be nootropic via enhancing memory functioning as well....."
(Nowakowska E, Chodera A, Kus K (1999). "Behavioral and memory improving effects of mirtazapine in rats". Polish Journal of Pharmacology 51 (6): 463–9.)

Has anyone tried Mirtazapine and noticed its memory enhancing effects ?

[medievil]

Doesnt matter if its a nootropic, its H1 antagonism is a real bitch.

[Davevanza]

Doesnt matter if its a nootropic, its H1 antagonism is a real bitch.

H-1 antagonism causes weight gain, sedation and antipruritic. But so far I have not noticed any weight gain, could be because of my diet and weight training too.

In Medline I read an article that Mirtazapine is classified a nootropic because it helps the elderly subjects sleep better the night before driving test was conducted, so they perform better driving skill and alertness.

I am still a bit confused, if because a substance makes a person sleep better that he is able to function best the next morning,called a nootropic, then any sleeping pills and sedating antihistamines are classified nootropics. ( ie. GHB is a nootropic when I read Smart Drugs 2, Dean & Morgenthaler). I assumed it works indirectly to enhance cognitive function, unlike other nootropics.

[medievil]

Doesnt matter if its a nootropic, its H1 antagonism is a real bitch.

H-1 antagonism causes weight gain, sedation and antipruritic. But so far I have not noticed any weight gain, could be because of my diet and weight training too.

In Medline I read an article that Mirtazapine is classified a nootropic because it helps the elderly subjects sleep better the night before driving test was conducted, so they perform better driving skill and alertness.

I am still a bit confused, if because a substance makes a person sleep better that he is able to function best the next morning,called a nootropic, then any sleeping pills and sedating antihistamines are classified nootropics. ( ie. GHB is a nootropic when I read Smart Drugs 2, Dean & Morgenthaler). I assumed it works indirectly to enhance cognitive function, unlike other nootropics.

Remeron is a 5HT2A and 5HT2C antagonist thus deinhibiting dopamine release wich could have nootropic effects.

[Johann]

My wife has been taking Mirtazapine for some 9-10 months now along w/ wellbutrin. Her recall
during the day is horrible by her own admission. I don't know but it could be from the wellbutrin affecting
the nicotinic receptors but thought I would add this as part of anecdotal.

[Davevanza]

Doesnt matter if its a nootropic, its H1 antagonism is a real bitch.

H-1 antagonism causes weight gain, sedation and antipruritic. But so far I have not noticed any weight gain, could be because of my diet and weight training too.

In Medline I read an article that Mirtazapine is classified a nootropic because it helps the elderly subjects sleep better the night before driving test was conducted, so they perform better driving skill and alertness.

I am still a bit confused, if because a substance makes a person sleep better that he is able to function best the next morning,called a nootropic, then any sleeping pills and sedating antihistamines are classified nootropics. ( ie. GHB is a nootropic when I read Smart Drugs 2, Dean & Morgenthaler). I assumed it works indirectly to enhance cognitive function, unlike other nootropics.

Remeron is a 5HT2A and 5HT2C antagonist thus deinhibiting dopamine release wich could have nootropic effects.

Avanza/Remeron ( Mirtazapine ) is a 5-HT ( Serotonin ) antagonist, more precisely, it antagonises 5-HT ( Serotonin ) sub-types 2A and 2C.

In this case, it is the neurotransmitter 5-HT ( Serotonin ) that is involved, and..... (maybe I'm wrong..) it does not involve DA ( Dopamine ) release.

As being a NaSSA ( Noradrenaline and Specific Serotonin Antagonist ), Mirtazapine works via the release of Noradrenaline, as well as blocking Serotonin sub-types 2A and 2C at the Post-synaptic clefts....( I'm not too sure,I could be wrong), it also works like an antinauseant classified as smart-drug, Ondansetron, by antagonising 5-HT3 ( This I read from Smart Drugs 2 by Dean & Morganthaler ) thus alleviating nausea.

If Mirtazapine is classified a nootropic because of its antagonism at 5-HT2A/2C, in other words as a Serotonin Antagonist, I have tried a particular old antihistamine called Periactin ( Cyproheptadine ) 4mg which is an OTC meds for pruritus, which also, unlike other antihistamines available in the market, it antagonises 5-HT ( Serotonin ) as well as H1 ( Histamine ), but not considered a nootropic. I am very confused about this........

As with other antidepressants which prolong the amount of Serotonin, Noradrenaline, Dopamine ( ie. SSRI's, SNRI's, TCA's, DNRI like Prozac, Effexor, Elavil, Wellbutrin respectively ), even RIMA-A or B ( Reversible Inhibitor of Mono Amines-A, which inhibits the deamination of Serotonin and Noradrenaline mainly, such as Moclobemide ; or Reversible Inhibitor of Mono Amines-B, which inhibits the deamination of Dopamine and Phenylethylamine, such as Selegiline ), only Selegiline that I read that is classified as a nootropic.

I have not read any articles stating that Elavil, Tofranil, Wellbutrin are nootropics... ( I could be wrong.... ) , but their functions are the same, that is to make the Neurotransmitters more available at the synaptic clefts, by inhibiting the re-uptake of Serotonin, Noradrenaline and Dopamine to the Pre-synaptic clefts.

I am very confused.... ( In the past I tried almost all antidepressants, but had not noticed any nootropic effects, except drowsiness,dry mouth, nausea and constipation......) I have not tried Selegiline but tried Aurorix ( Moclobemide ) 300mg, which is a RIMA-A with positive results.

[medievil]

5HT2C antagonism increases dopamine release. Not all serotonin receptors are good antagonized tough, but id say agomelatine is a damn good antidepressant.

[medievil]

Whats the point of you quoting your post again? Imo remerons 5HT2C antagonism is the reason for its possible nootropic effects, i dont know why cyproheptadine isnt considered a nootropic, it may not have been researched as one.

[Davevanza]

Whats the point of you quoting your post again? Imo remerons 5HT2C antagonism is the reason for its possible nootropic effects, i dont know why cyproheptadine isnt considered a nootropic, it may not have been researched as one.

I am sorry, sincerely I didn't mean to re-post it, it just happen when I finished posting it yesterday I wanted to make an edit, and after correcting my post, I clicked on the "reply" botton.... and that's what happened....it came out to have so many quotes, but my editted post didn't come out at all.

Sorry.

Anyway, thanks for the input and explanation about the effect of the 5-HT2C.

[cougar]

Whats the point of you quoting your post again? Imo remerons 5HT2C antagonism is the reason for its possible nootropic effects, i dont know why cyproheptadine isnt considered a nootropic, it may not have been researched as one.

In addition to the antagonism of 5HT2C which deinhibits DA and NE release, it's 5HT3 antagonism property could be promoting the release of Acetylcholine.

[Ephilation]

New to imminst, but thought I would comment on this:

Been on mirtazapine for about 2 weeks now. I've found that it works very well for anxiety, but as medievil said, the daytime sedation is a real bitch. As I need to go back to medical school in about a year, I can't afford to be this tired during the day - I'm hoping that agomelatine will be a better option for me, seeing as how both drugs antagonize the 5-HT2c receptors.

Edited by Ephilation, 15 May 2010 - 05:06 PM.

[KimberCT]

New to imminst, but thought I would comment on this:

Been on mirtazapine for about 2 weeks now. I've found that it works very well for anxiety, but as medievil said, the daytime sedation is a real bitch. As I need to go back to medical school in about a year, I can't afford to be this tired during the day - I'm hoping that agomelatine will be a better option for me, seeing as how both drugs antagonize the 5-HT2c receptors.

Amitriptyline and nortriptyline are quite similar to mirtazapine without nearly as much sedation.  I actually found them anxiolytic and stimulating at first.

[Ephilation]

KimberCT: did you stay on them? What did you eventually end up with? I've been following you around these forums, so I'm curious as to what's currently working for you.

[KimberCT]

KimberCT: did you stay on them? What did you eventually end up with? I've been following you around these forums, so I'm curious as to what's currently working for you.

Unfortunately, no.  While the tricyclics work great, they all eventually give me chest pains for some reason.


The primary pharms/supps I'm taking, for panic disorder and chronic nausea...

20mg memantine (for GAD, tolerance)
100mg sertraline (for panic)
500mg benfotiamine (helped the most with the stomach issues)

2 tablets of Ashwagandha extract before bed (Planetary Herbals) and a bifidus probiotic blend.

I doubled my water intake, increased my sodium intake, lots of magnesium, and a bit of lithium.  4oz of broccoli sprouts daily too.  Love those things!

Funk's posts finally got to me, and I decided to try LDN again last week.  So far so good.  While the above seems to taken care of the majority of my anxiety and nausea, I still have brainfog and a subtle underlying panic-type feeling.  It's early and I'm only at 1.5mg LDN, but it seems to be helping.  Skin is also becoming oily and more acne prone.  I do have low testosterone levels, so I'm hoping the LDN is boosting that.

What's probably most interesting to you, would be an herb I've been experimenting with recently.  Kudzu is a weak benzodiazepine antagonist, but also a strong 5-HT2C antagonist.  I've only tried it a few times, on weekends, but I really like it so far.  I have a feeling it's going to be a keeper.


Feel free to PM me.  I almost missed your post in this thread.

[penisbreath]

I still have brainfog

does memantine not help in that regard? i found it to be of benefit for brain fog at lower doses (10mg)

[KimberCT]

I still have brainfog

does memantine not help in that regard? i found it to be of benefit for brain fog at lower doses (10mg)

No, not for me.  My brainfog seems to be tied to my panic-anxiety level.

[M4Y0U]

I am taking mirtazapine (30mg) and when it was the only medication I was on I didn't notice any nootropic effects. I can sleep 15 hours on this thing and I wake up extremely tired which totally makes no sense when seeking nootropic effect. Now that I am on tramadol acet, baclofen my memory is very very bad. I know tramadol can be bad for memory since its a NMDA receptors antagonist as well as it's affect the u-opiod receptor and it also have SNRI proprieties. Baclofen seems to cause the problem too being a GABAa receptor agonist. Did I mention the diazepam too? I'm also on Wellbutrin but it doesn't help counter any side-effects related to energy and memory. I still don't understand the GABA paradox... High level of GABA is related to better cognitive function but increasing it with diazepam is related to impaired cognitive functions... There are enough paradoxes in neurobiology to give you a severe headaches. We all know cannabis is bad for memory because activation of the CB1 receptor will lead to decreased level of GABA but diazepam will increase it and will lead to memory problems too...

I will get off mirtazapine ASAP and go back on Cymbalta and start a nootropic regiment with piracetam, modafinil, choline, alpha GCP, inositol, B5, vinpocetine and hope my memory problems will be gone. My anterograde memory is really becoming a problem and I'm also noticing some retrograde memory problems. Really bad for someone studying various fields such as neurobiology, psychology, neuroscience & behavior and pharmacology.

M4

Edited by M4Y0U, 10 August 2010 - 07:47 PM.

[medicineman]

it is a more potent hypnotic than most, bar lorazepam. and its pharmacology does not show a direct effect which might contribute to better cognitive function... and regarding the sleep thing, if something gives you better sleep, it can't be considered a nootropic solely for that. in that case, some people on zolpidem would say their sleep is dire without it, and with it, they can get a decent night of sleep, and function better the next day. zolpidem is NOT a nootropic at all and to say it is solely for that reason, would destroy the definition of nootropic drugs.

[M4Y0U]

I would be glad if someone could answer the question regarding the GABA paradox...

[Complexology]

I use 3.75mg mirtazapine 2 hours before bed, to sleep early. Plus I use magnesium for better REM sleep.

 

I sleep 9 to 10,5 hours, and my cognitive function is amazing. Greater processing power, I can process huge amount of information.

 

I am a workaholic, and do high demanded senior executive manager work, so I need to high-level thinking. And make multiple connections.

 

When I get out of bed, I can work 10 hours high level cognitive functioning instead of 8 hours with 6 to 8 hours sleep. 

 

Rem sleep for improved functioning what do you want more.

 

 

 

Edited by Complexology, 29 June 2014 - 11:52 AM.