14 replies to this topic

[chipdouglas35]

We know that T gets converted to DHT through 5AR, and we also know that DHT is 10 times as potent as T.

We also know that a healthy ratio has to be maintained between T/E2 for libido to exist.

Now what happens when the activity of 5AR is increased leading to lower T and increased DHT--what does this do to sex drive ? Is there any downregulation of androgen receptors documented somewhere ?

Does the same T/E2 ratio still applies when DHT gets off the chart and E2 remains about the same ? My point is that some E2 is needed for agressiveness, or sex drive.

[shaggy]

We know that T gets converted to DHT through 5AR, and we also know that DHT is 10 times as potent as T.

We also know that a healthy ratio has to be maintained between T/E2 for libido to exist.

Now what happens when the activity of 5AR is increased leading to lower T and increased DHT--what does this do to sex drive ? Is there any downregulation of androgen receptors documented somewhere ?

Does the same T/E2 ratio still applies when DHT gets off the chart and E2 remains about the same ? My point is that some E2 is needed for agressiveness, or sex drive.

Always thought DHT was around 3 times as androgenic as plain test... 10 times seems a bit high.

Any references buddy?

[chipdouglas35]

We know that T gets converted to DHT through 5AR, and we also know that DHT is 10 times as potent as T.

We also know that a healthy ratio has to be maintained between T/E2 for libido to exist.

Now what happens when the activity of 5AR is increased leading to lower T and increased DHT--what does this do to sex drive ? Is there any downregulation of androgen receptors documented somewhere ?

Does the same T/E2 ratio still applies when DHT gets off the chart and E2 remains about the same ? My point is that some E2 is needed for agressiveness, or sex drive.

Always thought DHT was around 3 times as androgenic as plain test... 10 times seems a bit high.

Any references buddy?

Maybe 10 times is a bit high, but I recall reading this from reliable places. Now, I do not have time to do in in-depth search on this, but I've found the following post from Dr. Romeo Mariano : http://www.definitivemind.com/








DHT (Dihydrotestosterone): is about 7 times more potent than testosterone on androgen receptors except in muscle. It strongly helps determine libido. It can be considered the true male hormone since it helps determine male secondary sex characteristics, e.g. body hair, etc. DHT can also contribute to hair loss, weight gain and other side effects when too high. DHT is produced from testosterone. The amount of DHT produced is determine by many factors, including the route of testosterone treatment. For example, with testosterone gels, DHT production can be high depending on the amount of skin area to which the gel is applied. When analyzing the effects of testosteron replacement, DHT level is important to know.

SHBG (Sex hormone binding globulin): is used in some methods to estimate free or bioavailable testosterone. Thus its level can be given free when a total and free testosterone panel is ordered. SHBG has its own signal function when combined with testosterone or estrogens, which may help determine sexual function. SHBG can help determine whether there is an appropriate balance of other hormones in determining sexual function (e.g. estrogen activity, insulin activity).

Total and free testosterone alone may give a person an idea of what is happening if one assumes that is the only problem. Unfortunately, often (particularly with sexual function) problems may have many contributing factors. Thus, obtaining only a total and free testosterone is a one dimensional view of the problem. It does not even indicate if one has primary versus secondary hypogonadism, for example. And it won't give an idea of the total risks involved with treatment. __________________
Any statement I make on this site is for educational purposes only and will change as medical knowledge progresses. It does not constitute medical advice, does not substitute for proper medical evaluation from physician, does not create a doctor/patient relationship or liability. If you would like medical advice, please ask your doctor. Thank you.

[NDM]

I got lost with the T/DHT issue - specifically I want to ask: do herbs that lower conversion of T to DHT increase or decrease libido? (In anothe thread, someone indicated nettle root as a libido enhancer, but that would mean that lowering the conversion of T to DHT increases libido...Is that correct???)

[chipdouglas35]

I got lost with the T/DHT issue - specifically I want to ask: do herbs that lower conversion of T to DHT increase or decrease libido? (In anothe thread, someone indicated nettle root as a libido enhancer, but that would mean that lowering the conversion of T to DHT increases libido...Is that correct???)

It seems to be a tough one, as little is known about DHT, as opposed to T. Nettle root IIRC, lower SHBG, increasing Free T, which again IIRC 2% of total T. Nettle can increase libido in some, depending on whether SHBG is higher than it should be for one.

Zinc is known to inhibit 5AR decreasing T to DHT conversion, BUT, I think this is a very mild inhibition.

FYIW, google black tea + DHT and you'll come across one study showing more inhibition from black tea over Finasteride. For MPB sufferers like me, this might help.

[nushu]

I tried DHT a couple years ago and it wiped out my sex drive, have not touched it since.

[shaggy]

I tried DHT a couple years ago and it wiped out my sex drive, have not touched it since.

What was it exactly?

I am some what suprised that people think DHT lowers sex drive, I would have thought it completely the opposite, from what I've read and experienced.

I have taken proviron, which is basically oral DHT and my sex drive went through the roof... Too darn high to be honest.... It also has a strong affinity to SHBG leaving more free testosterone availbale.

[nushu]

I tried DHT a couple years ago and it wiped out my sex drive, have not touched it since.

What was it exactly?

I am some what suprised that people think DHT lowers sex drive, I would have thought it completely the opposite, from what I've read and experienced.

I have taken proviron, which is basically oral DHT and my sex drive went through the roof... Too darn high to be honest.... It also has a strong affinity to SHBG leaving more free testosterone availbale.

It was the NOW brand DHT (powder form). Maybe it affects individuals in different ways?

Edited by nushu, 12 November 2009 - 03:36 AM.

[lynx]

I tried DHT a couple years ago and it wiped out my sex drive, have not touched it since.

What was it exactly?

I am some what suprised that people think DHT lowers sex drive, I would have thought it completely the opposite, from what I've read and experienced.

I have taken proviron, which is basically oral DHT and my sex drive went through the roof... Too darn high to be honest.... It also has a strong affinity to SHBG leaving more free testosterone availbale.

It was the NOW brand DHT (powder form). Maybe it affects individuals in different ways?

I think you have DHT cofused with something else. If NOW sold DHT they would all be in jail.

[chipdouglas35]

I tried DHT a couple years ago and it wiped out my sex drive, have not touched it since.

What was it exactly?

I am some what suprised that people think DHT lowers sex drive, I would have thought it completely the opposite, from what I've read and experienced.

I have taken proviron, which is basically oral DHT and my sex drive went through the roof... Too darn high to be honest.... It also has a strong affinity to SHBG leaving more free testosterone availbale.

It was the NOW brand DHT (powder form). Maybe it affects individuals in different ways?

I think you have DHT cofused with something else. If NOW sold DHT they would all be in jail.

Yes, since DHT is a powerful hormone. Maybe the poster mistook it for BHT.

[Ungomma]

I am interested in this topic too.

I have lots of bodily hair and am balding at the age of 23 which is supposed to indicate high DHT levels, yet I can't help but notice that lately my libido has decreased along with my ADD symptoms becoming more severe. I am going to do some blood tests soon, but I wonder what should I be looking for. DHT, free T, prolactin, progesterone?

[NeuroGuy]

Bump

I'm really curious about this too, mainly in regards to creatine raising T->DHT conversion (and questionable studies about how green tea affects DHT levels).

[hamishm00]

I am interested in this topic too.

I have lots of bodily hair and am balding at the age of 23 which is supposed to indicate high DHT levels, yet I can't help but notice that lately my libido has decreased along with my ADD symptoms becoming more severe. I am going to do some blood tests soon, but I wonder what should I be looking for. DHT, free T, prolactin, progesterone?

Have you had your levels tested? Your baldness (male pattern?) is likely due to genetic susceptibility to DHT buildup in the scalp through the sweat glands rather than because you have unusually high DHT levels. It could be both however.

[Guacamolium]

Yes, DHT is much more highly aromatizable than testosterone - which can easily lead to less libido. Don't say shit about citing studies because this isn't rocket surgery. The answer is yes.

[Actarus]

DHT is the main cause of Alopecia (Baldness). In fact, there are inhibitors of DHT like the Finasteride, that stops Alpecia but can lead to impotence. This is very well known for those who take Finasteride.