7 replies to this topic

[csrpj]

before, choline did wonders for me and adding it to piracetam was super-great. now, it seems more choline adds to brain-fog. perhaps this is due to the extra wellbutrin i recently started taking. i'm feel iffy about piracetam alone, but since ALCAR increases acetylcholine levels, does it make sense for it to be used with piracetam instead of choline?

[Johann]

ALCAR would be the contribution of the Acetyl group to ACh. Choline would adding the 2nd half -- so using both would synergistic.

[1kgcoffee]

ALCAR would be the contribution of the Acetyl group to ACh. Choline would adding the 2nd half -- so using both would synergistic.

Are you sure about that? I always though the acetyl was just to get it into the blood brain barrier?
http://biomed.geront.../full/56/3/B140

[Johann]

ALCAR would be the contribution of the Acetyl group to ACh. Choline would adding the 2nd half -- so using both would synergistic.

Are you sure about that? I always though the acetyl was just to get it into the blood brain barrier?
http://biomed.geront.../full/56/3/B140

That piece does not limit the acetyl group to just being the vehicle of carnitine across the BBB. IIRC, anything with acetic acid can be beneficial to the mfg of ACh:  Vinegar, Tylenol (acetaminophen), etc.  

[Pike]

in theory, couldn't that whole "acetyl- donor" mechanism deplete your natural choline levels?

never bothered to dig into that question. i probably should. either way, i always supplement my alcar an hour or two away from my choline.

[Johann]

in theory, couldn't that whole "acetyl- donor" mechanism deplete your natural choline levels?

never bothered to dig into that question. i probably should. either way, i always supplement my alcar an hour or two away from my choline.

Let me know what you find out. I usually take my ALCAR first thing in the morn and then supps about 4 hours later.

[recitative]

ALCAR would be the contribution of the Acetyl group to ACh. Choline would adding the 2nd half -- so using both would synergistic.

Are you sure about that? I always though the acetyl was just to get it into the blood brain barrier?
http://biomed.geront.../full/56/3/B140

That piece does not limit the acetyl group to just being the vehicle of carnitine across the BBB. IIRC, anything with acetic acid can be beneficial to the mfg of ACh:  Vinegar, Tylenol (acetaminophen), etc.  

Vinegar is beneficial to the manufacture of acetylcholine? That's interesting, when I make salad dressing I combine lecithin with apple cider vinegar (along with flax seed oil, spices, etc.)

[chrono]

I recently re-started piracetam after about half a year of almost no use, and found myself with mentally crippling brain fog and stuffy head sensations after any 3 days of use (2x800-1000mg/day). After about a week I would begin to have a very foul mood in addition, which is very atypical for me. I'd be able to use it again after 2-3 days off.

Supplementation with 300-600mg/day of Alpha GPC cleared these symptoms up nicely, though it always felt slightly odd: a feeling of coldness, almost, not dissimilar to that of caffeine, but without the stimulation. Difficult to articulate.

Several weeks later I began to experiment with ALCAR; taking even a single 500mg dose on top of my GPC produced very noticeable neck and shoulder tension, and occasionally a headache (signs of ACh buildup). I happened to run out of GPC, and have been taking piracetam with ALCAR for almost a week now without the brainfog returning.

Ideally I'd like to take the GPC alongside ALCAR for its own (subtle) benefits, but I haven't found a way to do so comfortably yet. But for now, the ALCAR stimulation is very helpful, and seems to be filling the choline supplementation role admirably. If anything, it feels clearer than the Alpha GPC did, but that may be due to the additional stimulation.