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Looking for Your *Best* Supplement Recommendation for Reading/Study/Re


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#1 Midnyght134

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Posted 17 November 2009 - 05:36 PM


I've been looking around this (and other) forums for a while, and everyone seems to throw their stacks around. Although I may try different stacks in the future, as I have in the past, I'm looking for what you feel is your #1 contributing factor to mental clarity, focus, and memory. I know I know ... "it depends .." that's why I said BEST! I'm just interested in the community's idea of the best fit all around. Any opinions are welcome though.

I'm a programmer and I've got about 6-8 books that I want to blaze through in the next few months (500+ pages each), but I know that I'll have trouble remembering and staying focused on all that information. I need something that will lock me in and increase the "RAM" in my brain ... something that will help convert what I've just read from short term memory to long(er) term memory.

Supplements I've tried for various reasons in the past
none of these besides ephedrine has any noticable effect.
L-Theanine
Vinpocetine
L-Huperzine A (currently taking)
Piracetam
DMAE
Oxiracetam
Aniracetam
L-Tryptophan
Picamilon
Centrophenoxine
Ephedrine

Also a few premade stacks from various companies, though they mostly contain some combination of the ingredients listed above.
The ONLY premade stack that felt like it had any slight effect was BrainQuicken, but not outright noticable - and expensive.

Ones I haven't tried:
Pramiracetam
Selegiline (L-Deprenyl)
Hydergine

I'm the kind of person that was raised on caffeine. I can drink a redbull and go right to sleep. I'm looking for something that can be legally (and preferably easily in the US) obtained. I know that adderall is the best college study aid, but even if I knew where to get it, short of getting a prescription, it would be hella $$.

So, let's here it! What's the one (or two) things i can take most likely to give me adderall-like focus/studying/recall abilities? :)

#2 Dorho

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Posted 17 November 2009 - 09:26 PM

Supplements I've tried for various reasons in the past
none of these besides ephedrine has any noticable effect.
L-Theanine
Vinpocetine
L-Huperzine A (currently taking)
Piracetam
DMAE
Oxiracetam
Aniracetam
L-Tryptophan
Picamilon
Centrophenoxine
Ephedrine

Also a few premade stacks from various companies, though they mostly contain some combination of the ingredients listed above.
The ONLY premade stack that felt like it had any slight effect was BrainQuicken, but not outright noticable - and expensive.

Sorry for the uninformative response but I've seen the ingredients of BrainQuicken and it seems weird you got effects from it but not from the individual supplements you mention above (except ephedrine). As far as I can tell, vinpocetine and huperzine A are pretty much the most potent nootropics in the BrainQuicken.

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#3 RighteousReason

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Posted 17 November 2009 - 10:06 PM

I've been looking around this (and other) forums for a while, and everyone seems to throw their stacks around. Although I may try different stacks in the future, as I have in the past, I'm looking for what you feel is your #1 contributing factor to mental clarity, focus, and memory. I know I know ... "it depends .." that's why I said BEST! I'm just interested in the community's idea of the best fit all around. Any opinions are welcome though.

I'm a programmer and I've got about 6-8 books that I want to blaze through in the next few months (500+ pages each), but I know that I'll have trouble remembering and staying focused on all that information. I need something that will lock me in and increase the "RAM" in my brain ... something that will help convert what I've just read from short term memory to long(er) term memory.

Supplements I've tried for various reasons in the past
none of these besides ephedrine has any noticable effect.
L-Theanine
Vinpocetine
L-Huperzine A (currently taking)
Piracetam
DMAE
Oxiracetam
Aniracetam
L-Tryptophan
Picamilon
Centrophenoxine
Ephedrine

Also a few premade stacks from various companies, though they mostly contain some combination of the ingredients listed above.
The ONLY premade stack that felt like it had any slight effect was BrainQuicken, but not outright noticable - and expensive.

Ones I haven't tried:
Pramiracetam
Selegiline (L-Deprenyl)
Hydergine

I'm the kind of person that was raised on caffeine. I can drink a redbull and go right to sleep. I'm looking for something that can be legally (and preferably easily in the US) obtained. I know that adderall is the best college study aid, but even if I knew where to get it, short of getting a prescription, it would be hella $$.

So, let's here it! What's the one (or two) things i can take most likely to give me adderall-like focus/studying/recall abilities? :)

Good question, I would like to see any answers to this too

#4 JCast

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Posted 18 November 2009 - 12:51 AM

Did you take those supplements longer than a month? The BrainQuicken (placebo)

#5 Dorho

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Posted 18 November 2009 - 10:11 AM

So, let's here it! What's the one (or two) things i can take most likely to give me adderall-like focus/studying/recall abilities? :)

Good question, I would like to see any answers to this too

I'd like to hear an answer to this question too, but I doubt the existence of such a nootropic. If there were a cheap and easily obtainable substitute to adderall, then everyone and their mother would use it.

#6 Pike

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Posted 18 November 2009 - 10:46 AM

I'm the kind of person that was raised on caffeine. I can drink a redbull and go right to sleep. I'm looking for something that can be legally (and preferably easily in the US) obtained. I know that adderall is the best college study aid, but even if I knew where to get it, short of getting a prescription, it would be hella $$.



well, that would certainly be one REALLY easy way for you to get a brain boost. long-term caffeine use, even at low doses, impairs memory binding. if you're aiming for a cognitive boost, you can start off pretty nicely by cutting caffeine out of your diet, like... permanently.

#7 Midnyght134

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Posted 18 November 2009 - 03:01 PM

@PIKE - I'll quit the caffeine and see what happens. Starting ... tomorrow! ha! Already had my cup-o-coffee this morning.

@JCast - I went through two bottles of BrainQuicken on two separate occasions. When I got done, that's when I started going through the ingredients list on the BrainQuicken bottle trying to find which supplement actually made the most difference. The times I noticed a difference on brainquicken was when I was typing, or playing guitar with a friend. In both instances, I made less mistakes. It was kinda like my fingers were precisely in sync with my thoughts, instead of following commands given by my brain.

Perhaps it was a placebo effect. It could have just been the added confidence that I took a "Brain Enhancement" pill that made me flow like that. If I'm going to pay $40+ bucks for a product though, I need to damn sure feel it! lol.

I want a PRONOUCED difference. Even if I get a full nights sleep for a week, while listening to the soothing sounds of Mozart during the day, and eating nothing but chicken, celery, carrots, with V8 to drink ... I want a trusty "nootropic"-ish supplement that I take to make my brain even more *enlightened*!

Maybe a bit over the top, but you get the idea! I love learning new things, but I want razor sharp focus and the ability to process, and remember that info...

#8 425runner

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Posted 18 November 2009 - 04:17 PM

I heard that a few squirts of Desmopressin aka Vasopressin help tremendously in retaining learned material. Perhaps you could try and report the effects..........

@PIKE - I'll quit the caffeine and see what happens. Starting ... tomorrow! ha! Already had my cup-o-coffee this morning.

@JCast - I went through two bottles of BrainQuicken on two separate occasions. When I got done, that's when I started going through the ingredients list on the BrainQuicken bottle trying to find which supplement actually made the most difference. The times I noticed a difference on brainquicken was when I was typing, or playing guitar with a friend. In both instances, I made less mistakes. It was kinda like my fingers were precisely in sync with my thoughts, instead of following commands given by my brain.

Perhaps it was a placebo effect. It could have just been the added confidence that I took a "Brain Enhancement" pill that made me flow like that. If I'm going to pay $40+ bucks for a product though, I need to damn sure feel it! lol.

I want a PRONOUCED difference. Even if I get a full nights sleep for a week, while listening to the soothing sounds of Mozart during the day, and eating nothing but chicken, celery, carrots, with V8 to drink ... I want a trusty "nootropic"-ish supplement that I take to make my brain even more *enlightened*!

Maybe a bit over the top, but you get the idea! I love learning new things, but I want razor sharp focus and the ability to process, and remember that info...



#9 Pike

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Posted 18 November 2009 - 05:02 PM

I heard that a few squirts of Desmopressin aka Vasopressin help tremendously in retaining learned material. Perhaps you could try and report the effects..........


i second that with a big grin. desmo doesn't help anything with focus, but it is ungodly in the memory department. who was it that said noopept was based off of desmo?

#10 The Likud Is Behind It

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Posted 18 November 2009 - 06:11 PM

i second that with a big grin. desmo doesn't help anything with focus, but it is ungodly in the memory department. who was it that said noopept was based off of desmo?


How long does the effect last? If I studied for six hours after taking a few squits, how many of those hours would be memory enhanced?

I'm getting ready to study six hours a day for three months in preparation for the bar exam.

#11 tunt01

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Posted 18 November 2009 - 06:15 PM

Maybe a bit over the top, but you get the idea! I love learning new things, but I want razor sharp focus and the ability to process, and remember that info...


it seems like you are trying to pop a pill and get some kind of immediate focus/rush of clarity and intensity. don't you think this is abnormal and there would be long-term risks associated with any medication/supplement that delivered such a response?

don't you think improving your brain is an incremental process that would occur slowly overtime rather than like some light switch flicked on or off w/ a chemical?

im just curious...

#12 Midnyght134

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Posted 18 November 2009 - 06:22 PM

I'm not looking for a magic pill persay, but I wanted it to be clear that I didn't want to take some weak ass herbal extract supplements for 3 months for a sleight, or even unnoticeable, improvement. ya know? I may give desmo a try.

I too would be interested to hear someone's guess at the % of information that can be retained while supplementing desmopressin.

Edited by Midnyght134, 18 November 2009 - 06:24 PM.


#13 RighteousReason

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Posted 18 November 2009 - 10:38 PM

I heard that a few squirts of Desmopressin aka Vasopressin help tremendously in retaining learned material. Perhaps you could try and report the effects..........

@PIKE - I'll quit the caffeine and see what happens. Starting ... tomorrow! ha! Already had my cup-o-coffee this morning.

@JCast - I went through two bottles of BrainQuicken on two separate occasions. When I got done, that's when I started going through the ingredients list on the BrainQuicken bottle trying to find which supplement actually made the most difference. The times I noticed a difference on brainquicken was when I was typing, or playing guitar with a friend. In both instances, I made less mistakes. It was kinda like my fingers were precisely in sync with my thoughts, instead of following commands given by my brain.

Perhaps it was a placebo effect. It could have just been the added confidence that I took a "Brain Enhancement" pill that made me flow like that. If I'm going to pay $40+ bucks for a product though, I need to damn sure feel it! lol.

I want a PRONOUCED difference. Even if I get a full nights sleep for a week, while listening to the soothing sounds of Mozart during the day, and eating nothing but chicken, celery, carrots, with V8 to drink ... I want a trusty "nootropic"-ish supplement that I take to make my brain even more *enlightened*!

Maybe a bit over the top, but you get the idea! I love learning new things, but I want razor sharp focus and the ability to process, and remember that info...

The effect of desmopressin on short-term memory in children with primary nocturnal enuresis.
Müller D, Florkowski H, Chavez-Kattau K, Carlsson G, Eggert P.

Children's Hospital, University of Kiel, Kiel, Germany.
PURPOSE: The use of desmopressin in patients with primary nocturnal enuresis is based on the hypothesis of a nocturnal lack of endogenous arginine vasopressin. However, in addition to the kidney, other targets of desmopressin are known. Therefore, we examined whether the administration of desmopressin influences central nervous function in children with primary nocturnal enuresis. MATERIALS AND METHODS: Our prospective, randomized, double-blind, placebo controlled cross-over study was performed on 40 children with nocturnal enuresis. Patients were randomly assigned to receive either 20 microg. desmopressin intranasally or 0.9% saline solution. Each group comprised 19 and 21 to children, respectively. After 2 weeks the groups were switched. The children were tested for short-term memory and reaction time to both treatments. Statistical analysis was done using the Wilcoxon matched pairs test. RESULTS: Median patient age was 8.0 years (range 6 to 13). During desmopressin treatment children in both groups had a significant decrease of wet nights (5.3 to 3.2 per week). In contrast to reaction time, short-term memory was significantly different between both groups (p <0.05). CONCLUSIONS: Our results demonstrate an increase in short-term memory after desmopressin treatment in children with nocturnal enuresis. This finding indicates the central nervous system as a target involved in the pathogenesis of nocturnal enuresis as well as the therapeutic benefit of desmopressin treatment.


Mil Med. 1989 Feb;154(2):83-5.
Assessment of desmopressin-enhanced cognitive function in a neurosurgical patient.
Dons RF, House JF, Hood D, Krehbiel M.

The vasopressin analog desmopressin (DDAVP) is known to enhance memory in animals and man but its precise mechanism of action is uncertain. We report the case of a patient who experienced chronic memory dysfunction with impaired job performance following transsphenoidal resection of a pituitary adenoma. A prospective double-blind, placebo-controlled trial of the effects of DDAVP was performed. Memory storage and recall improved with DDAVP treatment and declined within 1 week after drug withdrawal both by subjective and objective criteria. The Buschke Selective Reminding Test was clearly the most responsive out of a battery of standard memory testing paradigms employed to track the presence or absence of DDAVP treatment.


Behav Neurosci. 1987 Jun;101(3):429-32.
Vasopressin analogue (DDAVP) facilitates recall of narrative prose.
Beckwith BE, Petros TV, Bergloff PJ, Staebler RJ.

The effects of treatment with 1-desamino-D-arginine vasopressin (DDAVP) on memory in healthy adult human subjects were investigated. Each subject (males only) received 60 micrograms of DDAVP intranasally and then heard six narrative passages of prose presented at differing rates of presentation. Proportion of recall was measured at high, medium, and low levels of importance of idea units within the passage. The results indicated that treatment with DDAVP facilitated recall for both high and medium importance idea units. There was no interaction between treatment and either rate of presentation or level of verbal ability. These findings provide further evidence for the modest facilitation provided by acute administration of DDAVP on human memory.

PMID: 3606814 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


Isr J Med Sci. 1987 Jan-Feb;23(1-2):12-8.
Animal and clinical studies of vasopressin effects on learning and memory.
Hamburger-Bar R, Eisenberg J, Belmaker RH.

Cognitive deficits of attention deficit disorder in childhood are poorly responsive to presently available medication. Vasopressin derivatives have been reported to enhance learning and memory in animals and in normal humans in controlled studies. This study reports on the effects of vasopressin on learning in rats and in children with learning disorders. Vasopressin treatment three times weekly for 6 weeks in rats appeared to be more effective in enhancing learning and retarding extinction than did vasopressin treatment given only at the beginning of learning and again at the start of extinction. These effects were also shown to be affected by pharmacogenetic factors, since in six inbred mouse strains some showed retarded extinction with vasopressin and others did not. In 17 children with attention and learning disorders, vasopressin derivative was given daily for 10 days and compared with 10 days of placebo treatment in a randomized, crossover, double-blind design. Story memory plus position learning were significantly improved by vasopressin derivative compared with placebo. The same trend of improvement was observed in nine Down's syndrome patients. In 15 other children with attention and learning disorders, a single dose of vasopressin derivative was compared with placebo in a randomized, crossover, double-blind design, and no benefit was found. These parallel animal and human studies suggest that repeated, but not single-dose, vasopressin treatment may benefit childhood learning disorders.

PMID: 2952619 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


Neuropsychobiology. 1986;15(2):80-3.
Effects of vasopressin and desmopressin on memory. A double-blind study in 40 healthy volunteers.
Guard O, Marchal G, Graule A, Dumas R, D'Athis P.

In a study involving 40 healthy student volunteers, 10 subjects were given lysine vasopressin at a dose of 0.4 ml (23 IU) per day in 3 divided doses for 15 days by the nasal route. Ten subjects were given desmopressin at a dose of 0.2 ml (20 micrograms) per day in a single dose for 15 days by the nasal route. Twenty subjects were given placebo by the nasal route. Memory tests were conducted under the same conditions before and after treatment (verbal span, verbal retention, visual retention, visual learning, verbal learning). Only the contents of the tests were varied, so as to avoid familiarity. Statistical analysis did not show any significant change in the scores between the first and the second series of tests, between the two treated groups, or between them studied separately and the control subjects.

PMID: 3762902 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



#14 bobman

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Posted 19 November 2009 - 12:26 AM

Maybe a bit over the top, but you get the idea! I love learning new things, but I want razor sharp focus and the ability to process, and remember that info...


it seems like you are trying to pop a pill and get some kind of immediate focus/rush of clarity and intensity. don't you think this is abnormal and there would be long-term risks associated with any medication/supplement that delivered such a response?

don't you think improving your brain is an incremental process that would occur slowly overtime rather than like some light switch flicked on or off w/ a chemical?

im just curious...



I agree. The ancillary question (although this should be a first order consideration) is what permanent improvements one gets from a substance that gives such an acute response. Increased neurogenesis certainly does not result in immediate improvements. It takes delayed conditioning for neurons to be recruited and integrated into the matrix.

Those half-life correlated gains are the low hanging fruit, but that fruit is mostly rotten.

Edited by AlexK, 19 November 2009 - 12:27 AM.


#15 bobman

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Posted 19 November 2009 - 12:46 AM

Maybe a bit over the top, but you get the idea! I love learning new things, but I want razor sharp focus and the ability to process, and remember that info...


it seems like you are trying to pop a pill and get some kind of immediate focus/rush of clarity and intensity. don't you think this is abnormal and there would be long-term risks associated with any medication/supplement that delivered such a response?

don't you think improving your brain is an incremental process that would occur slowly overtime rather than like some light switch flicked on or off w/ a chemical?

im just curious...



I agree. The ancillary question (although this should be a first order consideration) is what permanent improvements one gets from a substance that gives such an acute response. Increased neurogenesis certainly does not result in immediate improvements. It takes delayed conditioning for neurons to be recruited and integrated into the matrix.

Those half-life correlated gains are the low hanging fruit, but that fruit is mostly rotten.


On that note... I'd recommend the natural route. Gotu Kola, Ashwagandha, and especially Bacopa have good Western clinical evidence backing their effectiveness, as well as 2000 years of use documenting both their cognitive effects and safety. The best thing about them is that they seem to offer whole body improvements.

Ergots, LSD especially seem like they would be very useful abstract reasoning, disparate element association, and pattern recognition. I've read really interesting reports on long term use. I used Hydergine over a 6 month period, and it was an amazing experience (at a dose of 10mg a day I believe). The fibrosis possibility scared me off.

Pot may be good, although it never gave me cognitive benefits until after prolonged nootropic use. My brain is definitely not the same it once was. I can feel this. It is far more confused, but far more capable. It is like I am putting together the pieces of my mind that were scattered by the many new islands of activity.

I would recommend both Piracetam and Aniracetam. I'm sure they confer long term benefits, but I think they are far more on the structural side; these effects certainly don't manifest themselves acutely after the wash-out, but I now have some synesthesia, a developing photographic memory (which started after maybe my 4th or 5th month of using aniracetam and hydergine together), and improved creative reasoning. I was able to do things like commit to long term memory 200 digits of pi in ~ 1 hour (although the retention of that 2 months later was admittedly only ~ 50%, however there was no recollection of the sequence during that time; a complete hiatus). Never could do it before the use. Also I began to write poetry at a high enough level to get into the most advanced poetry class at a major, well-known university. Had to submit an 8 poem portfolio. It was good enough that I was accepted although the submission was 2 months late (2 weeks into the class), and I had no experience writing poetry, never taken a class, and only read 1 poet (although I knew some disparate pieces).

Choline is obviously a must, and I would recommend either higher doses of phosphotidylcholine or CDP, because they have effects on systems other than ACh/AChE.

LSD I really want to try, but can't seem to find a source. Damn.

However, if you go the nootropic route, you absolutely have to use your brain, train as much as you can. Eating 1g/lb of whey protein wont do jack on its own, but if you train a heck of a lot you'll see great gains. This is a similar thing I think.

We are at least one paradigmatical technological shift away from delivering intelligence in a bottle, and even then the range of the effect will depend largely on cognitive exercise. That will probably come with genetic engineering. The best we can hope for right now, with the right nootropic use and serious cognitive exercise, are some real epigenetic, permanent effects in brain metabolism, and 2-3 standard deviation shifted IQ because of the combination of supplementation, and cognitive exercise (including meditation, n-back, studying, and much more). This is no Algernon. You won't learn a language in a week if you can't get past Spanish 3 right now.

Edited by AlexK, 19 November 2009 - 12:54 AM.


#16 LIB

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Posted 19 November 2009 - 04:14 AM

This is what's been working for me lately..

- Good fats
Fish Oil
Phosphatidylserine

-Acetylcholine
CDP-Choline
ALCAR

-Stimulants
Nicotine Patch
Modafinil

-Racetam
Piracetam

#17 Rags847

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Posted 19 November 2009 - 04:20 AM

How do you fit the modafinil and piracetam together?

Notice effects from each, concurrently?

#18 LIB

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Posted 19 November 2009 - 05:09 AM

How do you fit the modafinil and piracetam together?

Notice effects from each, concurrently?


Yeah, I notice the benefits from both. I don't take the nicotine or modafinil regularly though. Naturally, a tolerance develops.

Piracetam is quite lovely when it works for you.

#19 nito

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 03:21 AM

There's this drink called relentless. 500 mg of energy drink that contains 32mg caffeine per 100 ml, so roughly 160 mg of caffeine in one can. God that wake me up lol, it's so good. Some might be too sensitive and not sleep for 24 hours, so be careful!

#20 Dorho

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Posted 22 November 2009 - 08:50 PM

It might be too early to say for sure, but after four days of heavy piracetam doses, I seem to be a non-responder to piracetam. Do you guys think I should try ani/oxi/pramiracetam or would that be just a waste of money? Is a piracetam non-responder probably a non-responder to all other racetams?

Being a searcher of the type of nootropic like Midnyght is, I really don't know what I should try next. Hydergine? Noopept? Deprenyl?

#21 NDM

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Posted 23 November 2009 - 02:57 AM

the best way to remember long term is to read only first class scholars - because they are bright, they organize the information in the most concise and clear way, hence they do half of the job for you. Try Herb Simon for a starter.

#22 paradigmshift

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Posted 14 February 2010 - 12:11 AM

@bomann How is it you are so well informed on nootrophics??! Did you study Neuropharmacology or something? I'm impressed!

#23 Animal

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Posted 14 February 2010 - 01:02 AM

@bomann How is it you are so well informed on nootrophics??! Did you study Neuropharmacology or something? I'm impressed!


You'll find that many individuals on this forum are equally or superiorly well informed when it comes to nootropics. Much of it comes from self directed research or simply an extended period of experience and experimentation.

#24 paradigmshift

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Posted 14 February 2010 - 06:32 PM

I am 23 years old, and have always lamented my low IQ. I am able to digest complex academic and scientific literature but when it comes to expressing my own ideas (particularly in a concrete, written form) I suffer terribly. I have always attributed it to some depressive disorder or ADD even though I have had neither conditions diagnosed. I think what it ultimately boils down to is an inherent defficieny up top. Can nootrophics realistically assist with attempting to bolster my lackluster powers of cognition or are the only gains (however dimuitive) going to be brought about through 'brain training' alone?

Edited by paradigmshift, 14 February 2010 - 06:36 PM.


#25 tunt01

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Posted 14 February 2010 - 06:47 PM

I am 23 years old, and have always lamented my low IQ. I am able to digest complex academic and scientific literature but when it comes to expressing my own ideas (particularly in a concrete, written form) I suffer terribly. I have always attributed it to some depressive disorder or ADD even though I have had neither conditions diagnosed. I think what it ultimately boils down to is an inherent defficieny up top. Can nootrophics realistically assist with attempting to bolster my lackluster powers of cognition or are the only gains (however dimuitive) going to be brought about through 'brain training' alone?


from this description, it's hard to know what your exact deficit or problem. but choline/citicholine and other noots have a fair amount of proved efficacy, and i think it's why a lot of people here and elsewhere look to use them.

#26 SATANICAT

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Posted 14 February 2010 - 07:55 PM

Maybe a bit over the top, but you get the idea! I love learning new things, but I want razor sharp focus and the ability to process, and remember that info...


it seems like you are trying to pop a pill and get some kind of immediate focus/rush of clarity and intensity. don't you think this is abnormal and there would be long-term risks associated with any medication/supplement that delivered such a response?

don't you think improving your brain is an incremental process that would occur slowly overtime rather than like some light switch flicked on or off w/ a chemical?

im just curious...



I agree. The ancillary question (although this should be a first order consideration) is what permanent improvements one gets from a substance that gives such an acute response. Increased neurogenesis certainly does not result in immediate improvements. It takes delayed conditioning for neurons to be recruited and integrated into the matrix.

Those half-life correlated gains are the low hanging fruit, but that fruit is mostly rotten.


On that note... I'd recommend the natural route. Gotu Kola, Ashwagandha, and especially Bacopa have good Western clinical evidence backing their effectiveness, as well as 2000 years of use documenting both their cognitive effects and safety. The best thing about them is that they seem to offer whole body improvements.

Ergots, LSD especially seem like they would be very useful abstract reasoning, disparate element association, and pattern recognition. I've read really interesting reports on long term use. I used Hydergine over a 6 month period, and it was an amazing experience (at a dose of 10mg a day I believe). The fibrosis possibility scared me off.

Pot may be good, although it never gave me cognitive benefits until after prolonged nootropic use. My brain is definitely not the same it once was. I can feel this. It is far more confused, but far more capable. It is like I am putting together the pieces of my mind that were scattered by the many new islands of activity.

I would recommend both Piracetam and Aniracetam. I'm sure they confer long term benefits, but I think they are far more on the structural side; these effects certainly don't manifest themselves acutely after the wash-out, but I now have some synesthesia, a developing photographic memory (which started after maybe my 4th or 5th month of using aniracetam and hydergine together), and improved creative reasoning. I was able to do things like commit to long term memory 200 digits of pi in ~ 1 hour (although the retention of that 2 months later was admittedly only ~ 50%, however there was no recollection of the sequence during that time; a complete hiatus). Never could do it before the use. Also I began to write poetry at a high enough level to get into the most advanced poetry class at a major, well-known university. Had to submit an 8 poem portfolio. It was good enough that I was accepted although the submission was 2 months late (2 weeks into the class), and I had no experience writing poetry, never taken a class, and only read 1 poet (although I knew some disparate pieces).

Choline is obviously a must, and I would recommend either higher doses of phosphotidylcholine or CDP, because they have effects on systems other than ACh/AChE.

LSD I really want to try, but can't seem to find a source. Damn.

However, if you go the nootropic route, you absolutely have to use your brain, train as much as you can. Eating 1g/lb of whey protein wont do jack on its own, but if you train a heck of a lot you'll see great gains. This is a similar thing I think.

We are at least one paradigmatical technological shift away from delivering intelligence in a bottle, and even then the range of the effect will depend largely on cognitive exercise. That will probably come with genetic engineering. The best we can hope for right now, with the right nootropic use and serious cognitive exercise, are some real epigenetic, permanent effects in brain metabolism, and 2-3 standard deviation shifted IQ because of the combination of supplementation, and cognitive exercise (including meditation, n-back, studying, and much more). This is no Algernon. You won't learn a language in a week if you can't get past Spanish 3 right now.


I like what you have done. Very interesting, motivating, and helpful. And, it definitely sounds like Flowers for Algernon in the first part of the post haha. Thanks for posting.
I'll also add for the natural route chocolate, specifically 90%+, improves my concentration and reading speed.

Edited by SATANICAT, 14 February 2010 - 08:01 PM.


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#27 bobman

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Posted 28 February 2010 - 09:23 AM

Maybe a bit over the top, but you get the idea! I love learning new things, but I want razor sharp focus and the ability to process, and remember that info...


it seems like you are trying to pop a pill and get some kind of immediate focus/rush of clarity and intensity. don't you think this is abnormal and there would be long-term risks associated with any medication/supplement that delivered such a response?

don't you think improving your brain is an incremental process that would occur slowly overtime rather than like some light switch flicked on or off w/ a chemical?

im just curious...



I agree. The ancillary question (although this should be a first order consideration) is what permanent improvements one gets from a substance that gives such an acute response. Increased neurogenesis certainly does not result in immediate improvements. It takes delayed conditioning for neurons to be recruited and integrated into the matrix.

Those half-life correlated gains are the low hanging fruit, but that fruit is mostly rotten.


On that note... I'd recommend the natural route. Gotu Kola, Ashwagandha, and especially Bacopa have good Western clinical evidence backing their effectiveness, as well as 2000 years of use documenting both their cognitive effects and safety. The best thing about them is that they seem to offer whole body improvements.

Ergots, LSD especially seem like they would be very useful abstract reasoning, disparate element association, and pattern recognition. I've read really interesting reports on long term use. I used Hydergine over a 6 month period, and it was an amazing experience (at a dose of 10mg a day I believe). The fibrosis possibility scared me off.

Pot may be good, although it never gave me cognitive benefits until after prolonged nootropic use. My brain is definitely not the same it once was. I can feel this. It is far more confused, but far more capable. It is like I am putting together the pieces of my mind that were scattered by the many new islands of activity.

I would recommend both Piracetam and Aniracetam. I'm sure they confer long term benefits, but I think they are far more on the structural side; these effects certainly don't manifest themselves acutely after the wash-out, but I now have some synesthesia, a developing photographic memory (which started after maybe my 4th or 5th month of using aniracetam and hydergine together), and improved creative reasoning. I was able to do things like commit to long term memory 200 digits of pi in ~ 1 hour (although the retention of that 2 months later was admittedly only ~ 50%, however there was no recollection of the sequence during that time; a complete hiatus). Never could do it before the use. Also I began to write poetry at a high enough level to get into the most advanced poetry class at a major, well-known university. Had to submit an 8 poem portfolio. It was good enough that I was accepted although the submission was 2 months late (2 weeks into the class), and I had no experience writing poetry, never taken a class, and only read 1 poet (although I knew some disparate pieces).

Choline is obviously a must, and I would recommend either higher doses of phosphotidylcholine or CDP, because they have effects on systems other than ACh/AChE.

LSD I really want to try, but can't seem to find a source. Damn.

However, if you go the nootropic route, you absolutely have to use your brain, train as much as you can. Eating 1g/lb of whey protein wont do jack on its own, but if you train a heck of a lot you'll see great gains. This is a similar thing I think.

We are at least one paradigmatical technological shift away from delivering intelligence in a bottle, and even then the range of the effect will depend largely on cognitive exercise. That will probably come with genetic engineering. The best we can hope for right now, with the right nootropic use and serious cognitive exercise, are some real epigenetic, permanent effects in brain metabolism, and 2-3 standard deviation shifted IQ because of the combination of supplementation, and cognitive exercise (including meditation, n-back, studying, and much more). This is no Algernon. You won't learn a language in a week if you can't get past Spanish 3 right now.


I like what you have done. Very interesting, motivating, and helpful. And, it definitely sounds like Flowers for Algernon in the first part of the post haha. Thanks for posting.
I'll also add for the natural route chocolate, specifically 90%+, improves my concentration and reading speed.


Hah, thanks. I sometimes feel like algernon. That was a story that impressed upon me a fear of low intelligence; his rise as an intellectual was so auspicious that the subsequent fall was painful to read. Also really reminiscent of "A Dog's Heart" by Bulgakov, with Sharik's fall from grace.

Anyways, I've been making constant improvement. Things keep getting better. I'm considering going back on hydergine for a bit, because ergolods have some really interesting effects. I ate some morning glory seeds, and after he 3rd dose became permanently affected, in a positive way.

I'm trying to help my mother regain her acuity too, and the burden of responsibility for her safety makes me very cautious with my decisions. I won't give her somethig I won't take, and I won't recommend something g that doesn't have extensive in vivo documentation.

I've considered Cerebrolysin, but I'm not sure that it is a good idea to sensitize one's immune system to brain protiens. I don't understand enough about the immune system's role in neurology, especially with regards to stroke. I would hate knowing that her chances of having a good recovery after a stroke were compromised from use of Cerebrolysin. Off topic.

Edited by bobmann, 28 February 2010 - 09:25 AM.





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