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Need a clarification between meds that increase Dopamine and Dopamine


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#1 Davevanza

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Posted 24 November 2009 - 04:39 AM


I am having difficulty understanding, why medications that increases Dopamine level in the brain give pleasurable/positive effect ( ie. Nicotine, MAO inhibitors, certain antidepressants, amphetamine-based nootropics, alcohol) while Dopamine pre-cursor and agonists ( ie. L-Dopa with carbidopa, Pramipexole,Ropinirol, pergolide, bromocriptine ) have no pleasurable effects ? ...with the later one I'm too sure as I never tried them, but I only heard from friends suffering from Parkinson disease and Restless Leg Syndrome say that their medications give them awful feeling, unlike taking cigarettes or alcohol...

So in my mind I'm thinking, must it be because the mechanism of the medications work that cause the pleasurable effect/nootropic effect rather than the neurotransmitter Dopamine itself....( I maybe wrong...)

Any input is appreciated. Thanks

#2 protoject

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Posted 03 December 2009 - 08:58 AM

YES!! I totally agree. I always hear people talking about "increasing their dopamine" as if it's going to make them feel better. I think it moreso has to do with the mechanisms and actions that are happening in the brain and the brain as a whole, and where these actions are taking place, and not necessarily "well I have more dopamine so i feel better".

Taking L-Dopa w/carbidopa makes me feel WEIRD.

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#3 Davevanza

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Posted 03 December 2009 - 11:49 AM

YES!! I totally agree. I always hear people talking about "increasing their dopamine" as if it's going to make them feel better. I think it moreso has to do with the mechanisms and actions that are happening in the brain and the brain as a whole, and where these actions are taking place, and not necessarily "well I have more dopamine so i feel better".

Taking L-Dopa w/carbidopa makes me feel WEIRD.


And also, Amphetamine-salts/ Methylphenidate/ Pemoline / Phentermine/ even Ephedrine HCl work through Dopamine neurotransmitter, but in the long term, they actually deplete Dopamine level in the brain........ but even so, some people still get the benefit from, say an ADHD med Adderall even it is used for years. ( Nicotine also affects Dopamine level in the brain, it actually releases catecholamines making the level of those neurotransmitter depleted.) But smokers always get the pleasure feeling from it.

I see that there is still too much theory about this. eg. at the moment I've been taking Avanza ( Mirtazapine) for 3 yrs, Wikipedia states that it is a nootropic because it increases Dopamine level in the brain in the Synaptic cleft, releases Noradrenaline from Synapses and blocks certain types of Serotonin in the post-synaptic clefts. -> this is stated in MIMS ANNUAL 2009.

Well, with current medical technology, we still cannot measure how much Dopamine ( or other neurotransmitters) are actually available in the brain. But through my experience (maybe others who use Mirtazapine), I cannot feel its nootropic effect, instead, it blunts my memory ( but it is a good antidepressant, as it lacks anticholinergic effect and does not cause nausea nor sexual dysfunction, unlike SSRI's/SNRI's, and it is a good sedative and antinauseant as well as antipruritus).

From this little info., I can see that Dopamine is the neurotransmitter responsible for pleasure feeling/ movements, but the mechanism of the drugs that works through Dopamine pathway is the most important thing that decides whether it is categorised as nootropic or "dirty mood brighteners",as stated in www.biopsychiatry.com under The Good Drug Guide.

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#4 2012pharmD

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Posted 03 December 2009 - 06:39 PM

It's many many times more complicated than the way you are looking at it. First, if you don't have Parkinson's, you have no use for L-Dopa as a med agent.

2nd, NE and DA are metabolized in nano/microseconds by MAO and COMT. The body is constantly making more DA and NE and also trying to be efficient by recycling it.

The pathways by which a drug will affect DA also affect it's metabolism. Some pathways are relatively safe, some are extremely addicting and unsafe.

Blanket statement that DA "makes you feel good" or NE "makes you feel energized" are completely wrong for literally 1000s of reasons. That's how busy those NT are.

Your best bet is to buy a good non-scientific book about antidepressants. It will tell you what is prescribed now and what we know so far about benefits and side effects.

A lot of it is theory with many missing pieces yet to be discovered. There are affects that "should" happen immediately with say an SSRI, but don't happen for weeks. The body is adapting to the agent in ways that are still educated guesses. And there are likely dozens, hundreds, or thousands of NT-like peptides yet to be discovered or linked to neurochemistry.




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