19 replies to this topic

[dupez]

I've been taking doxycycline (an antibiotic) for a couple years now nonstop (for some minor acne issues). I stopped taking it about 5 days ago and it seems that i have much more energy and am able to think much more clearly.. Does anyone know about side effects for long term use of doxycycline or other anti-biotics? Possibly drowsiness/tiredness which causes brain fog in the long run? Tried doing some research but couldn't find much relating to long term use..

[blind12]

Try the wikipedia page or any SPC on doxycycline ? I do believe CNS issues were mentioned in both.

[blind12]

Oh and I believe SPC mentioned possible permanent loss of sense of taste and smell. That was scary :(

[2012pharmD]

It is a CYP inducer - it increases the breakdown of (some) other drugs. So if you have a steady intake of caffeine or decongestants or some other stimulant, then stop taking Dox, the stimulants will often have more effect.

[dupez]

thanks for your input blind and pharmd.

i find that the stimulants do have more effect when not on doxy - even piracetam seems to have a more acute effect (its noticeably different)

[kismet]

I hope you're taking 40mg either in divided doses or as a time-relase formula? Personally, I haven't noticed brain fog or CNS effects either on or off low dose doxy or mino. CNS sides are a hallmark of the poisonous minocycline.

Oh and I believe SPC mentioned possible permanent loss of sense of taste and smell. That was scary :(

No, I don't think so. Not mentioned on rxlist or the literature I've read. I wouldn't mind losing my taste and smell compared to some other sides, though. Toxic epidermal necrolysis is scary as are other auto-immune side effects mostly reported for (or correlated with*) minocycline. I've only heard about a loss of vision from untreated intracranial hypertension (headaches under tetracyclines are not necessarily just headaches!)
*I am not sure causality was ever established

Try the wikipedia page or any SPC on doxycycline ? I do believe CNS issues were mentioned in both.

No. It's mostly minocycline.

http://www.rxlist.com/monodox-drug.htm

Monocycline, dat dere poison:
http://www.rxlist.co...psules-drug.htm

There are other sides I'd fear from long term, low dose doxy: increased blood pressure (stealthy risk factor), photo-sensitivity (& aging), mutagenity, esophagal cancer risk (plausibly follows from esophagal erosion)  ...

Edited by kismet, 02 December 2009 - 11:11 PM.

[dupez]

<br />I hope you're taking 40mg either in divided doses or as a time-relase formula? Personally, I haven't noticed brain fog or CNS effects either on or off low dose doxy or mino. CNS sides are a hallmark of the poisonous minocycline.<br /><br />

Oh and I believe SPC mentioned possible permanent loss of sense of taste and smell. That was scary :(

<br />No, I don't think so. Not mentioned on rxlist or the literature I've read. I wouldn't mind losing my taste and smell compared to some other sides, though. Toxic epidermal necrolysis <b>is</b> scary as are other auto-immune side effects mostly reported for (or correlated with*) minocycline. I've only heard about a loss of vision from untreated intracranial hypertension (headaches under tetracyclines are not necessarily just headaches!)<br />*I am not sure causality was ever established<br /><br />

Try the wikipedia page or any SPC on doxycycline ? I do believe CNS issues were mentioned in both.

<br />No. It's mostly minocycline.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.rxlist.co...nodox-drug.htm" target="_blank">http://www.rxlist.co...drug.htm</a><br /><br />Monocycline, dat dere poison:<br /><a href="http://www.rxlist.co...sules-drug.htm" target="_blank">http://www.rxlist.co...drug.htm</a><br /><br />There are other sides I'd fear from long term, low dose doxy: increased blood pressure (stealthy risk factor), photo-sensitivity (&amp; aging), mutagenity, esophagal cancer risk (plausibly follows from esophagal erosion)  ...<br />

<br /><br /><br />


I was taking 100mg before bed every night for about 2 years...

[k10]

Candida overgrowth can cause fatigue tiredness and brain fog if you weren't taking probiotics daily. I am not aware of any long-term side effects of antibiotics, doxycycline and minocycline are very safe drugs unless you have an acute reaction to them within the first couple of weeks of taking them, or if you get drug induced lupus from minocycline (which is cureable by stopping it)

[kismet]

I was taking 100mg before bed every night for about 2 years...

Please, do not continue poisoning yourself. After several months antimicrobial resistance will have set int so the only mechanism by which doxy still benefits you are its general anti-inflammatory and MMP-inhibitory mechanisms, but there is no proof whatsoever that there is any clinically meaningful dose response relationship above 40mg per day (in divided doses) when it comes to those mechanisms. Anyone who is taking more than that for prolonged times is playing a very dangerous game and most probably poisoning hirself for no good reason.

I am not aware of any long-term side effects of antibiotics, doxycycline and minocycline are very safe drugs unless you have an acute reaction to them within the first couple of weeks of taking them, or if you get drug induced lupus from minocycline (which is cureable by stopping it)

Relatively speaking safe. Generally safe? Damn, no, that stuff is still poison.

Edited by kismet, 04 December 2009 - 06:49 PM.

[k10]

I was taking 100mg before bed every night for about 2 years...

Please, do not continue poisoning yourself. After several months antimicrobial resistance will have set int so the only mechanism by which doxy still benefits you are its general anti-inflammatory and MMP-inhibitory mechanisms, but there is no proof whatsoever that there is any clinically meaningful dose response relationship above 40mg per day (in divided doses) when it comes to those mechanisms. Anyone who is taking more than that for prolonged times is playing a very dangerous game and most probably poisoning hirself for no good reason.

I am not aware of any long-term side effects of antibiotics, doxycycline and minocycline are very safe drugs unless you have an acute reaction to them within the first couple of weeks of taking them, or if you get drug induced lupus from minocycline (which is cureable by stopping it)

Relatively speaking safe. Generally safe? Damn, no, that stuff is still poison.

Long term studies done on doxycycline and minocycline have shown them to be safe. No where have I seen any mention of long term toxicity.

[kismet]

Long term studies done on doxycycline and minocycline have shown them to be safe. No where have I seen any mention of long term toxicity.

This assertion needs to be backed by massive citations, or better don't try (as the contrary evidence is already provided via rxlist). Really, there is no such thing like a safe drug. Much, much less antibiotics, even tetracyclines (some of the safest antibiotics known - relatively speaking), with very well documented severe short and long term risks.

Edited by kismet, 05 December 2009 - 06:03 PM.

[k10]

Long term studies done on doxycycline and minocycline have shown them to be safe. No where have I seen any mention of long term toxicity.

This assertion needs to be backed by massive citations, or better don't try (as the contrary evidence is already provided via rxlist). Really, there is no such thing like a safe drug. Much, much less antibiotics, even tetracyclines (some of the safest antibiotics known - relatively speaking), with very well documented severe short and long term risks.

There is such a thing as safe drug, many nootropics used on this board are DRUGS and completely safe. There are no documented long term risks other than photosensitivity, teeth discoloration, yeast overgrowth, and mild gastrointestinal complains, the last two both caused by a killing of the good bacteria which is preventable. If you are aware of any studies showing any more serious side effects than those let me know, though I highly doubt it.

There are dozens of studies evaluating the safety of long-term doxycycline, I've read the abstracts for long term doxycycline for malaria prevention, acne, and various other disorders. I don't have the motivation to go dig up all these studies right now, but here is one:

<h1 class="title">Prolonged administration of doxycycline in patients with small asymptomatic abdominal aortic aneurysms: report of a prospective (Phase II) multicenter study.</h1>Baxter BT, Pearce WH, Waltke EA, Littooy FN, Hallett JW Jr, Kent KC, Upchurch GR Jr, Chaikof EL, Mills JL, Fleckten B, Longo GM, Lee JK, Thompson RW.

Department of Surgery, University of Nebraska Medical Center, Omaha, USA.

BACKGROUND: The primary purpose of this study was to evaluate compliance, side effects, and safety associated with prolonged administration of doxycycline in patients with small asymptomatic abdominal aortic aneurysms (AAAs). A secondary goal was to determine how treatment with doxycycline influences circulating levels of matrix metalloproteinase-9 (MMP-9) in this patient population. METHODS: Thirty-six patients with AAAs (30 men and 6 women; mean age, 69 +/- 1 years) were enrolled into a 6-month phase II study to evaluate treatment with doxycycline (100 mg orally twice a day). Aneurysm size was measured before and after treatment, and compliance and side effects were monitored. Plasma levels of doxycycline were measured midway through the study, and plasma MMP-9 concentrations were measured at baseline, 3 months, and 6 months. RESULTS: Thirty-three of the 36 patients (92%) completed 6 months of doxycycline treatment. Significant treatment-related side effects occurred in five patients (13.9%), including three with cutaneous photosensitivity reactions (8.3%), one with tooth discoloration (2.8%), and one with yeast infection (2.8%). A high rate of compliance with treatment was seen, despite minor but frequent side effects, including nonspecific gastrointestinal symptoms (25%), easily managed episodes of photosensitivity (22.2%), and reversible tooth discoloration (5.5%). The mean plasma doxycycline level after 3 months was 4.62 +/- 0.68 ug/mL (median, 3.64 microg/mL; range, 1.31 to 14.39 microg/mL; n = 23 patients). No significant change was seen in AAA diameter (42.7 +/- 1.3 mm at 6 months versus 41.0 +/- 0.9 mm at baseline), and the overall rate of AAA expansion was 0.63% +/- 0.25% per month. The mean plasma MMP-9 level (n = 19 patients) was elevated at baseline (118.9 +/- 37.9 ng/mL; upper limit of normal, 85 ng/mL) but subsequently decreased to 83.8 +/- 32.9 ng/mL at 3 months (not significant versus baseline) and to 66.4 +/- 24.2 ng/mL at 6 months (P =.022 versus baseline). Only 21% of patients had an elevated level of plasma MMP-9 after 6 months of treatment compared with 47% at baseline (P <.05). CONCLUSION: Prolonged administration of doxycycline is safe and well tolerated by patients with small asymptomatic AAAs and is associated with a gradual reduction in plasma MMP-9 levels. Further studies are needed to evaluate the long-term effects of doxycycline on the rate and extent of aneurysm growth and the potential use of plasma MMP-9 levels as a biomarker of aneurysm disease progression.

Edited by k10, 05 December 2009 - 06:13 PM.

[kismet]

6 months, 36 patients? That doesn't prove that the use of those untested drugs is safe in millions of people over decades (=definition of safe). No, to the contrary, what the authors of medical texts mean when they say "safe", is "relatively safe if used on *as need* basis, i.e. when the benefits outweigh the risks", relatively safe seen in the *context* of their research.

No thing is safe. Water, foodstuffs once thought to be healthy, the most harmless supplements (eg. creatine, racetams, etc). No, when we say "safe" we mean that the risk is either low enough to be ignored or rather that the positive effects outweigh the risks if used correctly, but there's no substance without its risks. Every drug (or every active substances) comes with its tradeoffs w/o exceptions.
What there are risks of drinking too much water? Sure, needlessly raising systolic blood pressure and increasing your risk of CVD, but, on the other hand, you may cut the risk of bladder cancer if this leads to nocturia (then, are you trading good sleep and other risk factors against a lower risk of bladder cancer?!) Nothing without its tradeoffs.

People have died from reactions to minocycline (or a report freely available via the pop press) and lost their eyesight from intracranial hypertension. Tetracyclines are suspected carcinogens, they increase blood pressure, promote, possibly life-threatening, drug resistance (as tetracyclines are important first line antibiotics). Unspecific toxcity plausibly contributes to cancer (liver damage, esophagal erosion, etc). Risks of messing with gut flora have never been explored but very likely range from cancer to an increased likelihood of infection. Minocycline is especially dangerous often inducing life-threatining auto-immune disorders.
...and I am just scratching the surface.

Those dangerous side-effects are well-documented in both the literature and the very package inserts that are *based* on the literature (no, greedy pharma companies do not invent life threatening or dangerous side-effects on purpose ).

It is sensible to call racetams perfectly safe (as a first approximation, see above), but it is not sensible to call toxic drugs like tetracyclines safe.

Edited by kismet, 05 December 2009 - 06:52 PM.

[Bluejay1]

Tetracycline antibiotics can cause brain fog. If you think doxycycline is bad, minocycline is far far worse.

[dupez]

this is interesting.. like I said, I have discontinued taking it and have noticed improvements - I am far less drowsy, and other supps like piracetam and caffeine seem to have magnified effects. 2 years is a long time. In fact, it may have been even longer. I know when I was a teen the doctor had me try other tetracyclines as well (mino I think). I didn't notice the improvements until about 7 or 8 days after stopping.

[blind12]

Oh and I believe SPC mentioned possible permanent loss of sense of taste and smell. That was scary :(

No, I don't think so. Not mentioned on rxlist or the literature I've read.

My doxy package leaflet must've referred to pther cyclines then...

I wouldn't mind losing my taste and smell compared to some other sides, though. Toxic epidermal necrolysis is scary as are other auto-immune side effects mostly reported for (or correlated with*) minocycline.

There are other sides I'd fear from long term, low dose doxy: increased blood pressure (stealthy risk factor), photo-sensitivity (& aging), mutagenity, esophagal cancer risk (plausibly follows from esophagal erosion)  ...

Damn... and here I thought low-dose doxy was a great drug against chronic autoimmune issues, mostly inflammation, and aging-related chronic inflammation.
So it can actually worsen my conjunctivitis (likely autoimmune) and general skin damage/aging signs (autoimmune and/or high cortisol related) ?


Can you possible chime in at this thread of mine on doxy ?
Source of cheap/bulk/powder doxycycline ?

Edited by blind12, 08 December 2009 - 12:19 PM.

[kismet]

My doxy package leaflet must've referred to pther cyclines then...
Not that doxy can't cause such side-effects (if it's for instance a class effect...), but CNS-sides are most prominent for minocycline.

Damn... and here I thought low-dose doxy was a great drug against chronic autoimmune issues, mostly inflammation, and aging-related chronic inflammation.
Low dose doxycycline and other tetracyclines are shaping up as nice drugs for many conditions, but due to the many unknowns and the risks involved one should wait for actual clinical data and not speculation. There is speculation that tetracyclines may be beneficial for atherosclerosis (patients get tetracyclines, markers improve), while there is definitive proof that they help acne or rosacea (patient gets tetracyclines, condition improves).

So it can actually worsen my conjunctivitis (likely autoimmune) and general skin damage/aging signs (autoimmune and/or high cortisol related) ?
That depends on the actual auto-immune mechanism. Generally, there may be a realistic chance that they help with genuine auto-immune diseases (and potential for harm). As to skin aging, there's no clear cut answer. Tetracyclines inhibit several MMPs, major skin/ECM remodelling proteases involved in (photo-)aging, so they could worsen or improve skin aging at the end of the day.

Can you possible chime in at this thread of mine on doxy ?
Source of cheap/bulk/powder doxycycline ?
I wouldn't buy bulk drugs w/o good analytical data. 

Edited by kismet, 08 December 2009 - 01:48 PM.

[Heinstein]

I used to take Minocycline prescribed by doctor for acne. Altought it did clear up my acne a fair bit, I hated the side effect I got from it(brain fog and depression). I used to take 2 tablets at night because I couldn't deal with having brain fog all day by taking it twice a day. Then I moved onto just a topical cream(Retin-A) which was good enough for me and I didn't have to deal with brain fog or depression ever again!

Edited by Heinstein, 19 April 2011 - 09:23 AM.

[Delta Gamma]

Holy necro'd thread Batman!

But, I was on tetracycline for about a year and I noticed something very similar to what you had. A persistent tiredness and mild sadness, which was exacerbated by personal and family tragedies that occurred later in the same time period.

A personal theory based on my responses to minocycline and erythromycin is that it inhibited the biogenesis of new mitochondria, which is supported by empirical data. Also given the tetracyclines lipid solubility as a class its very likely that they cross into the brain in significant amounts.
http://mitotox.com/m...biogenesis.html

Also minocycline chelates Ca2+ in the cell, which could also result in altered neurotransmitter function.

It took a good 6 or 9 months for me to feel back to normal after I got off it, but it was dramatic how much better I felt after a week. However, part of me still thinks there is a slight lingering deficit from the use of the drug... well that or the zopiclone. Fuck zopiclone.

[resting]

http://extremelongev...nature12188.pdf