18 replies to this topic

[msied]

I have a certain standardized test coming up that will require me to think quickly, critically, and be stay sharp at all times. For the sake of optimizing those abilities, I'd like some input on what sort of stack would theoretically do the trick. Take this challenge with a light heart. I have an idea in mind already, but I want to see what other people come up with and reasons for why.

I have access to the following:
Huperzine A
Vinpocetine
DMAE
Acetyl-L-Tyrosine
Pramiracetam
Nefiracetam
Phenylpiracetam
Adderall
Methylene Blue
Caffeine
Ephedrine
Selegiline
Hydergine

Obviously, even a few of these together would be overkill and counter-productive since this list's bottom half consists more of the "big guns". Which few or less do you think would do the best job? I'm already well-studied for the exam, so I'm not expecting any magical instant-learning effects--just quick absorption of material and fast processing without any brain fog or sleepiness. Mental endurance would be great too.

[Pike]

how far away is the exam from now?

[msied]

Two days away... I guess that would be an important factor.

[msied]

Initial conditions: slight tolerance built toward caffeine/ephedrine already from a week's daily use, good-high amount of sleep consistent the time period prior, lack of any adderall or racetam usage for days prior (maybe that'll upregulate the effects?), have kept away from any MAO-inhibitors for weeks prior. Basically I'm going into this with a mild tolerance to CNS stimulants, zero sleep issues, physical health with habitual running and weight training, and otherwise primed/reset for the full effects of dopamergics. So what I have in mind is the following:

Given) Ephedrine, caffeine upon waking 5-6 hours prior to the exam. Potential mile or two of running, meant to keep me less physiologically stressed/fidgety during the exam. Then Bacopa, Huperzine A, and Vinpocetine (also taken the few mornings priors to game day).

Then just prior to the exam:

Possibility A
Phenylpiracetam, DMAE
Break time a couple hours after the exam begins, pit stop refuel with adderall and nefiracetam. Think I would need more DMAE after phenylpiracetam?

Possibility B
Adderall before, half that dose of adderall at the break

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I'm basing this off of my personal experience with these chemicals, and I don't mind that it might make me a little burned out for a day or two following--it's a damn important exam, and I want to know I did my very best given my best knowledge of my resources at hand. Ephedrine/Caffeine will be more for the sake of combatting possible lag from Ambien I would take the night/evening prior (waking up far earlier than needed), due to known insomnia issues. Wake at 4 or 5am, exam begins around 10am. Phenylpiracetam alone (+DMAE) puts me in the zone initially with a task-doing mindset, and the adderall/nefiracetam combo gets me confidant and forward with reasoning abilities. I think I'll go in sustainably food-fed and not overly, to keep me hungry for that something throughout.

--------------
And just for kicks, story time. See, I've already tried the fun nootropic route to this with not so much success. I took this exam a few months back already, but ended up having to cancel the score on the spot. I took half an ambien (trying it for the first time) 7 hours before I had to wake up for a long drive to the exam (Strike 1). Waking was followed by Noopept (Strike 2), Tyrosine, 5mg of Adderall, and DMAE. A big breakfast, and energy drinks to follow. When I arrived, I took 10mg of adderall + phenylpiracetam (strike 3), and a few sips of very very diluted methylene blue. At the pitstop break, I had another 10mg adderall and some more methylene blue.

So what did this amount to? I woke up with brain fog, the noopept put my mind in two places at once during the exam and caused me a lot of paranoia about the answer choices I made, the phenylpiracetam/adderall acute combo overstimulated me so much that when I looked at the words on the test I recognized shapes & ink, not coherent meaning. To top it off, I was soon exhausted by what I imagine was the residual effects of ambien hypnotically trying to lull me back to sleep throughout the exam period. I struggled to finish each section barely on time, sometimes guessing on the last question (a very time-stressed exam). On one hand, this was a seriously irresponsible abuse of nootropics without much knowledge of the contraindications and for that I should be barred from ever playing with fire again, and on the other I like to look back and just laugh off that costly mistake as a good learning experience. Trial by fire.

Edited by msied, 04 December 2009 - 04:08 AM.

[nanothan]

Ooops, I just read that you said in the first post that you were not planning on taking many of them, but I can't delete my post.

Edited by 2150???????????, 04 December 2009 - 05:18 AM.

[msied]

Ooops, I just read that you said in the first post that you were not planning on taking many of them, but I can't delete my post.

1) I'm still open to the possibility if it can be explained well. And whether or not it's feasible doesn't mean I wouldn't like to hear it.
2) It appears you deleted your post. Congratulations!

[Zoroaster]

I assume you're taking the MCAT (are there any other tests where you can cancel your score on the spot)? Here's something non-nootropic related that I think really helped me before I took the same test. The day before the exam I woke up at the same time I was going to wake up the morning of the exam. I ate the same breakfast I was going to eat the next day. I warmed up for the test the same way I was going to warm up the next day. Then I took a practice exam at the same time I was going to take the test. I took all the schedule breaks the same way I was going to take them and I took the test really seriously. Actually I did this for the two days prior to the exam. I really think this helped me a lot on test day. It really reduced my stress levels and helped me get "in the zone".

Which leads me to my next point. I wouldn't do anything out of the ordinary the day of the test. If you are liking the scores you're getting on practice tests (assuming you're doing the real AAMC practice tests and not those crappy Kaplan ones) then just take the exact same things you're taking during your practice tests. Your natural stress levels will be enough to amp you up a little extra on the day of the test. All I took on test day (and during the practice tests) was penguin mints. Like 12mg caffeine each or something. Took them in with me and sucked on them during the test. I was extremely, extremely focused during the test, more than I've ever been before or since. And everything turned out really well.

[Zoroaster]

But if you insist on taking noots, why would you take bacopa? To take the edge off your stimulation? If you're taking caffeine, ephedra, adderall, nefiracetam, and phenylpiracetam that's like setting up a single sandbag to hold back a tidal wave.

[msied]

LSAT actually. Good advice all around. I'm doing near-perfect on the practice tests, but small misreads here and there mean my concentration is really suffering near the end of the exam when I'm zapped for cognitive alertness. My problem pattern is that I do perfect in the first two sections but then, even knowing how serious the exam is, my mind just falls off a cliff and bam 10 questions missed in the last half where my previous alertness level would have made for a flawless victory.

Bacopa? I don't know, really. I'm more aware of how the stronger noots work than the weaker ones, and I just have Bacopa on hand from when I first learned about nootropics from an article that described five of the weaker ones--I ended up buying all five, and the article said they're synergistic so I figure the more diversity the better, eh? Really, I don't know, it could actually be hurting my game in this case to be taking it. Hence this thread! Help me know better!

[Zoroaster]

Yeah Bacopa is probably not helping, if you're taking it pre-test. Bacopa is great for memory but it only works over the long term (like 3 months+ of continuous use), and it's short term effects are nothing but sedating. I took it for a long time but only at night.

If your problem is attention than surely adderall would take care of that no? I've never taken it before but it's supposed to work pretty well from what I understand. Like I said, I think doing something too unusual on test day is risky, but adding a little adderall, if you're familiar with the effects and have used it before, might not be a bad idea. The only other thing I would recommend for a test day situation is Pyritinol, though it's not on your list. I've had a lot of success with pyritinol for exams. It's not a stimulant but it significantly ups your processing speed. And I've never heard of anyone having significant side effects from it. I take a lot of exams and I finish tests in about 2/3 - 3/4 my normal time while using pyritinol.

[msied]

I've done all my practice exams using adderall, but it really doesn't help the focus near the end of the exam. By that point, whatever level of a given chemical in my head that I need to endure more focus/attention to details--that level feels depleted and my sense of urgency is just popped by then. Maybe some PEA at the break would help??

[Pike]

well, i suppose if you're already doing well on Adderall, stick with that.

now, my own personal suggestions:

couldn't go wrong with adding a bit of that N-Acetyl-L-Tyrosine an hour BEFORE taking your Adderall. imo, tyrosine pre-loading always made it feel like the Adderall didn't strain my brain too much.

from personal experience, i could also recommend Hydergine. Bacopa might do jack-squat for taking off the edge, but Hydergine sure as hell worked for me. remains to be one of my favorite nootropics.

i'm sure you already know, but Adderall is most effective on a full night's rest. so try to get 7.5 hours of solid rest. eat a nice meaty dinner (if you're not a vegetarian) so you can get that l-tryptophan in your system. serotonin promotes REM sleep!

So yeah, my recommendation would be:
Adderall - *your own personal dose*
NALT - somewhere in the 300 to 500mg range an hour before taking Adderall
Hydergine - 3 to 4.5mg an hour before taking Adderall

i'd also recommend AGAINST taking:
vinpocetine
DMAE
'Racetams
huperzine
caffeine



good luck on the LSAT!

[widit]

well, i suppose if you're already doing well on Adderall, stick with that.

now, my own personal suggestions:

couldn't go wrong with adding a bit of that N-Acetyl-L-Tyrosine an hour BEFORE taking your Adderall. imo, tyrosine pre-loading always made it feel like the Adderall didn't strain my brain too much.

from personal experience, i could also recommend Hydergine. Bacopa might do jack-squat for taking off the edge, but Hydergine sure as hell worked for me. remains to be one of my favorite nootropics.

i'm sure you already know, but Adderall is most effective on a full night's rest. so try to get 7.5 hours of solid rest. eat a nice meaty dinner (if you're not a vegetarian) so you can get that l-tryptophan in your system. serotonin promotes REM sleep!

So yeah, my recommendation would be:
Adderall - *your own personal dose*
NALT - somewhere in the 300 to 500mg range an hour before taking Adderall
Hydergine - 3 to 4.5mg an hour before taking Adderall

i'd also recommend AGAINST taking:
vinpocetine
DMAE
'Racetams
huperzine
caffeine



good luck on the LSAT!

Hey Pike,

Im sorta new into this whole nootropics thing and im wondering why you recommended AGAINST taking 'Racetams? Thanks....im asking cuz im in finals mode and thinking about creating two stacks over winter break one stack for daily use and the other for the days of a midterm.

Gluck on the LSAT srry i couldn't be of any help

[msied]

I'll try the Hydergine+NALT recommendation, and throw out the weak stuff. However, I'm still going to combine nefiracetam with adderall and DMAE immediately before. You explained in another thread that it would burn my brain out to mix racetams with adderall, in a way I imagine would be like advising against sprinting in a marathon, but in this case I think this exam is analogous to a sprint-type of race.

Here's how I experience my biggest challenge, the mental fatigue: I was just playing a tetris game where the objective is to kill 40 rows in as little time as possible. At first, I was almost beating my own record, actively handling the controls with full focus and enjoyment, but after a while of trying, I began playing it passively and pretty much just spacing out. As a result, my performance suffered horribly and I might as well have quit after the first several best attempts before the mental fatigue set in. Could this be due to dopamine levels getting depleted, or something else? Any way to fix/alleviate it with nootropics?

Edited by msied, 05 December 2009 - 03:02 AM.

[tritium]

It might help if you withhold having sex or masturbating 1-2 days before the test. Therefore your testosterone levels will be slightly higher and you will have more confidence. I haven't seen any studies on this, but the effect seems slightly noticeable through my experience.

[msied]

It might help if you withhold having sex or masturbating 1-2 days before the test. Therefore your testosterone levels will be slightly higher and you will have more confidence. I haven't seen any studies on this, but the effect seems slightly noticeable through my experience.

Ah, no worries. I have... SARMs S4 for that one. Already getting those benefits.

[medicineman]

Pike said it best. Avoid the drugs on his avoid list...... Definitely. Personally, on exam days, I only take ritalin, and not even a full one. It would be divided in halves for the duration of the exam. USMLE step 1 exam is around 8 hours durations. Taking one ritalin will spell doom for the second half of the exam. So having two ritalins, (10mg's each) divided in 4 halves taken during the 8 hours, evenly spaced out so I am still feeling the ritalins contribution (AND NOT ITS DOWN SINCE THAT CAN DEVASTATE YOUR THINKING) by the end of the exam, but I wouldn't have my top blown off by single dropping two in the space of 8 hours.

go for a brisk walk before the exam, listening to Mozarts requiem..... I mean like 3-4 hours before the exam. Have a good breakfast, lots of complex sugars and brown bread, stay away from fast acting carbs, unless you can have a constant supply of it during the exam so you wont feel the post-insulin slump. I suggest you actually not open up a book before the exam.. Anything you learn hours before the exam, you won't retain.... if you smoke, have a cigarette beforehand, making sure you smoke it calmly and not rapidly, so you would not get the anxiogenic effects associated with fast inhalation of nicotine.

zoroasters idea is freakin great.... I think Im gunna try it for any exams from now on....

[msied]

Thank you everyone for your applicable knowledge. Game time soon. I'm about to go for a light jog to get my body awake. I'll come back later today with a report of how it went and what I felt contributed to what effects during the exam.

[msied]

Mission Summary
6 AM: Wake up, Ephedrine, Caffeine. Breakfast was a brownie and cottage cheese.
7 AM: 2 mile run (cancels out most of that brownie?). Hydergine + Tyrosine
8 AM: 20mg Adderall, DMAE, Nefiracetam. Second (proper) breakfast of oatmeal. Departure!
9:20AM: Exam portion began
10:45AM: DMAE, 10mg Adderall

Felt pretty good going into it, albeit maybe over-eager and uncollected. The adderall definitely did its job to make me pay attention--but maybe not 100% to the test itself, possibly some attention diverted to "no where" at times. The nefiracetam definitely worked well with its slight anti-depressant effects, and that really calmed me down enough to keep on the ball and think straight when I wasn't transiently spacing. Time was an issue, however, and I found myself having to read a few paragraphs to answer 7 questions in one part with only 2 minutes left--and this is the part I worry about most, because my guesses were only slightly better than guesses, and I had a second to mark a blatant guess on the last question there. Otherwise, I feel somewhat good about it. Definitely wasn't my best go compared to my practice tests, but much better than my previous canceled take. The biggest difference between the real thing and my timed practice takes was probably the stress concerned with not finishing on time, and the seemingly quicker passage of time resulting?

So in the midst of stress and a race: I have no idea how or if Hydergine + Tyrosine helped, I feel like Caffeine and Ephedrine really didn't play any cognitive role but nothing negative either, DMAE kept me able to process words quickly and consciously, Adderall kept me upbeat about what I was doing at the time, and Nefiracetam made me feel confident about what I was doing enough not to hang myself about it in real-time. And somehow, on top of it all... I somehow now have a photo-recall-like effect concerning the exact contents of the exam and how I marked it. But that's useless now.

Moreover, I think the 2 mile run helped me most of all.

In conclusion, nootropics will usually not save you from your adrenaline levels going haywire due to stress during a cognitively stressful, time-sucking exam.

Edited by msied, 05 December 2009 - 09:58 PM.