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Last resort, making a cocktail, new to nootropics, anyone care to help


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#1 HarPe

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Posted 04 December 2009 - 03:06 AM


Hello all of you!

I'm a student, but i also work at a law firm and recently, i've started feeling i'm just not enough.
My body simply has started telling me it can't take this amount of stress. This is a major problem
for me as i do not want to lose my job and i will, unless things change. If i quit work,
i cannot afford the studies and if i stop studying i'll get fired. I also want to practice my hobbies and
have a better social life. I did and had that just a few months ago, but now i simply can't keep up.

So i'm looking to nootropics for a solution (I heard of a few from a friend a while ago and now i finally
feel i had to prioritize this, so i've been reading a bit). I'm thinking of making a cocktail that both stabilizes
the adrenal glands and gives me the energy i need to fix this. Long term positive effects are also desirable.

What exactly would i need for that?

I've been thinking something like this:

Three times daily:

Vinpocetine 10mg
Huperzine A 75mcg (lower if i decide to add a choline source, need help with this)
DMAE 150mg
Aniracetam 150mg
Choline Source (should i? which one? how much?)
Picamilon 50mg
Galantamine 5mg



What else should i get? Glutamine? Idebenone? CoQ10? Any vitamin-B's? Vasopressin? ALCAR? Lecithin?
Creatine for improved cell-carriage of ATP?


Keep in mind that i'm a total newbie to this type of drugs. Amphetamine is out of the question and so is MDMA, i'm done with them.

Wishing someone has the time and grateful for any answers,

HarPe

#2 Zoroaster

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Posted 04 December 2009 - 06:35 AM

Well it sounds like you've looked into this a fair amount. First off, I would say your stack is probably a little much for your first time. As many here will tell you, its better to start with one noot at a time, maybe two, and slowly build up from there. That way, if you feel like crap, you know which one did it too you. Now some specifics:

You don't need to take both galantamine and huperzine A. In fact it would be a bad idea. They have essentially the same function. I'd also start with Piracitam rather than Aniracetam if it's your first venture into nootropics. Aniracetam seems to have more variable effects. DMAE also seems to be hit or miss for a lot of people. Personally I don't like it at all. It would probably be best to start with just Piracetam and a choline source. Then add things from there. I'd suggest pyritinol as your next step. It's pretty great stuff.

Picamilon is an interesting choice. I don't know how much of a nootropic it is but it's an anxiolytic, and for me it actually seemed to make my thinking more labored. Makes sense since it's basically GABA that can cross the blood brain barrier. Though from the situation you described, reducing anxiety might be a better direction for you to go. Might I suggest Theanine as a wonderful anxiolytic that doesn't cause drowsiness, and is good for you in a number of ways. It's also synergistic with caffeine. Rhodiola is another anxiolytic I like that doesn't make you sluggish.

Occasional use of phenibut has been fantastic for my overall stress levels. I'll often take a phenibut/theanine/bacopa combo after coming home from particularly stressful days, and I feel great, sleep great, and wake up refreshed. But it's not a good idea to take phenibut on a daily basis. Bacopa is a little sedating for daytime use but I take it often as a sleep aid and it's great. It also has proven affects on memory formation when taken over the long term.

Anyway, I hope some of that was helpful. Good luck putting your stack together.

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#3 HarPe

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Posted 05 December 2009 - 02:03 PM

Well it sounds like you've looked into this a fair amount. First off, I would say your stack is probably a little much for your first time. As many here will tell you, its better to start with one noot at a time, maybe two, and slowly build up from there. That way, if you feel like crap, you know which one did it too you. Now some specifics:

You don't need to take both galantamine and huperzine A. In fact it would be a bad idea. They have essentially the same function. I'd also start with Piracitam rather than Aniracetam if it's your first venture into nootropics. Aniracetam seems to have more variable effects. DMAE also seems to be hit or miss for a lot of people. Personally I don't like it at all. It would probably be best to start with just Piracetam and a choline source. Then add things from there. I'd suggest pyritinol as your next step. It's pretty great stuff.

Picamilon is an interesting choice. I don't know how much of a nootropic it is but it's an anxiolytic, and for me it actually seemed to make my thinking more labored. Makes sense since it's basically GABA that can cross the blood brain barrier. Though from the situation you described, reducing anxiety might be a better direction for you to go. Might I suggest Theanine as a wonderful anxiolytic that doesn't cause drowsiness, and is good for you in a number of ways. It's also synergistic with caffeine. Rhodiola is another anxiolytic I like that doesn't make you sluggish.

Occasional use of phenibut has been fantastic for my overall stress levels. I'll often take a phenibut/theanine/bacopa combo after coming home from particularly stressful days, and I feel great, sleep great, and wake up refreshed. But it's not a good idea to take phenibut on a daily basis. Bacopa is a little sedating for daytime use but I take it often as a sleep aid and it's great. It also has proven affects on memory formation when taken over the long term.

Anyway, I hope some of that was helpful. Good luck putting your stack together.


Hello again and thanks alot for your help, Zoroaster :p.

I have now decided, based on what you said, to order Piracetam, Alpha GPC and Huperzine A (don't worry, i'll go with the Piracetam and Alpha GPC first and try different combinations later).
Thinking of getting Theanine or Rhodiola(Rosenrot?) later as well as Phenibut or Bacopa, i just want to see how i react to these and if i can get back to my normal self if i just regain focus a bit.
Oh, and i am also forcing myself to get off the caffeine. Two cups per day max. Yes, my head hurts alot, but i dug the hole so now i'll just have to climb up :D.

As you say, i have looked into this quite a bit, but it took me ages since i can't focus properly once i get off work. I just realised i had to do something about this, so i thought i might as well try using my time for that.
I've decided to skip DMAE for now, seeing the different reactions in people here.
One question, though... Huperzine A and Galantamine have essentially the same function(inhibiting that enzyme, whatever the name was), but in what ways do they differ?

My thinking leaves me unsatisfied, though... I need some sort of order. I would kind of like to list substances grouped by function and add notes for what substances are counterproductive.
Anyone up for that, or is there already a list like that in here?

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#4 Zoroaster

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Posted 07 December 2009 - 10:23 PM

I think there are a couple threads around about huperzine vs galantamine. The major, and most noticeable difference between the two is price. Galantamine is at least 5 times more expensive than huperzine. The functional difference is that Galantamine potentiates NMDA receptors while Huperzine antagonizes the same receptor. NMDA receptors deal with mental plasticity and memory formation. I've always thought of this characteristic of Galantamine as a good thing, but I've heard differing opinions on that.

I would assume Rosenrot is the same as Rhodiola Rosea. Sounds like a german version of roseroot. Which along with goldenroot is is another name for Rhodiola. Otherwise your plan sounds good. I'd just be patient, it will take a while before you see significant results. I'd also recommend Pyritinol as a 2nd stage addition. It's not one you feel explicitly so much, but it's affect on my performance is pretty significant.

And of course remember that sleep and diet habits have a big impact on cognition. Hydration is also an oft-forgotten factor in mental performance. It can make a big difference, and many people are chronically dehydrated. And a little exercise goes a long way.

I don't know if there are any complete lists around like you've described. Wikipedia's nootropics topic has their list categorized a bit but it includes a lot of "nootropics" that aren't in common usage, aren't very strong, or are prescription only: http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Nootropics . I think searching these forums is a great way to learn more about the different nootropic possibilities. I don't know if I'm up to the task of putting together a list like that right now. But if you start a topic just for that purpose, you may get some responses.




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