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Melatonin


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#1 medicineman

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 12:10 AM


http://www.sciencema...t/318/5853/1144

http://www.ingentaco...000001/art00733

http://cat.inist.fr/...cpsidt=18410023

http://www.webscienc...cfm?ID=20031811



Still think it is a nootropic????

#2 tritium

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 04:38 AM

http://www.sciencema...t/318/5853/1144

http://www.ingentaco...000001/art00733

http://cat.inist.fr/...cpsidt=18410023

http://www.webscienc...cfm?ID=20031811



Still think it is a nootropic????


Does rat/zebrafish memory formation = human memory formation ?

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#3 medicineman

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 05:43 AM

considering that memory formation is preserved in similar brain areas across most vertebrate species, and the fact that zebra fish share the same circadian clock as humans do, yes, I believe this might point as to melatonin being a hindrance to memory formation. Plus, three other studies in rats showing similar results regarding LTP. all of the studies wrong? i think not.

#4 Saber

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 09:09 AM

The effects of melatonin on nighttime memory formation also happens naturally. I do not see this as a major side effect unless one were to take too much and have the effect spill over onto daytime which also may correlates with other side effects such as light-induced retinal cell damage and drowsiness.

Edited by Saber, 10 December 2009 - 09:09 AM.


#5 Zoroaster

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Posted 11 December 2009 - 12:54 AM

Thanks for posting these. The first one seemed most concerning to me. It's certainly enough to make me look into this issue more deeply.

#6 NDM

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Posted 11 December 2009 - 02:12 PM

Saber, I was under the impression that melatonin has a very short half-life, something like one hour maybe...so if you take it at bedtime there shouldn't be anything left after an 8 hour sleep...(?)

#7 Saber

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Posted 11 December 2009 - 10:14 PM

Saber, I was under the impression that melatonin has a very short half-life, something like one hour maybe...so if you take it at bedtime there shouldn't be anything left after an 8 hour sleep...(?)


A few exceptions, if someone takes melatonin without having enough time to sleep. There are timed release version too and if you eat near before going to bed, it's definitely not going to get metabolized in 8 hours. I have found a partially digested melatonin tablet in the toilet before and that was from a major brand.
Now I make sure not to eat at least 3 hours before going to bed but that might not even be enough if the meal is heavy with fat which delays gastric emptying.

#8 matthias7

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Posted 15 December 2009 - 12:08 AM

Thanks.

I must remember not to keep giving my zebra fish melatonin! Its a great application of basic science.

#9 medicineman

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Posted 15 December 2009 - 07:27 AM

Thanks.

I must remember not to keep giving my zebra fish melatonin! Its a great application of basic science.


I explained why this would affect humans as well.... And it seems pretty well established, that agents that cause cancer or disease in lesser animals, are pretty likely to do the same in humans... now if you chose to ignore that, well than that is your business... I see your goal is likely to be simple denialism... 'ive been taking 30mg of melatonin a day, and my memory is unreal' I think not..... my job is to inform, yours is to chose... goodluck

#10 sentrysnipe

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Posted 15 December 2009 - 08:03 AM

Melatonin may induce gynecomastia. Ask the Google.

#11 tritium

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 01:58 AM

Melatonin may induce gynecomastia. Ask the Google.

I wish I learned of this earlier. This could explain why my sex drive has decreased after 1 year of continuous >10mg melatonin. All of these abstracts indicate that melatonin either degrades sperm quality or lowers testosterone production.

http://www.andrology...stract/23/4/572
http://www3.intersci...l...=1&SRETRY=0
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/6299701

#12 medicineman

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 02:30 AM

That is unfortunate mate. Its ok though, I was reading through the studies, and hormone levels and gyne resolved within a few months of discontinuing.

Please taper the melatonin dosage and do not cut it right away...

#13 Saber

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 05:03 AM

Melatonin may induce gynecomastia. Ask the Google.

I wish I learned of this earlier. This could explain why my sex drive has decreased after 1 year of continuous >10mg melatonin. All of these abstracts indicate that melatonin either degrades sperm quality or lowers testosterone production.

http://www.andrology...stract/23/4/572
http://www3.intersci...l...=1&SRETRY=0
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/6299701



You did not even read your own sources. It raises testosterone through aromatase inhibition at the testicular level, meaning it prevents testosterone from converting to estrogen.

Melatonin does not induce gynecomastia, otherwise we would hear all about it. If you make that kind of claim then provide evidence.

First vitamin C is bad, then fish oil, alpha lipoic acid, now melatonin.
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#14 sentrysnipe

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 05:24 AM

Melatonin may induce gynecomastia. Ask the Google.

I wish I learned of this earlier. This could explain why my sex drive has decreased after 1 year of continuous >10mg melatonin. All of these abstracts indicate that melatonin either degrades sperm quality or lowers testosterone production.

http://www.andrology...stract/23/4/572
http://www3.intersci...l...=1&SRETRY=0
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/6299701



You did not even read your own sources. It raises testosterone through aromatase inhibition at the testicular level, meaning it prevents testosterone from converting to estrogen.

Melatonin does not induce gynecomastia, otherwise we would hear all about it. If you make that kind of claim then provide evidence.

First vitamin C is bad, then fish oil, alpha lipoic acid, now melatonin.


Uh who are you talking to? lol. just calm down sir. and who said Vitamin c is bad? Do you have hemochromatosis? If anyone needs to substantiate their claims it is you. :-D

#15 tritium

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 06:01 AM

Melatonin may induce gynecomastia. Ask the Google.

I wish I learned of this earlier. This could explain why my sex drive has decreased after 1 year of continuous >10mg melatonin. All of these abstracts indicate that melatonin either degrades sperm quality or lowers testosterone production.

http://www.andrology...stract/23/4/572
http://www3.intersci...l...=1&SRETRY=0
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/6299701



You did not even read your own sources. It raises testosterone through aromatase inhibition at the testicular level, meaning it prevents testosterone from converting to estrogen.

Melatonin does not induce gynecomastia, otherwise we would hear all about it. If you make that kind of claim then provide evidence.

First vitamin C is bad, then fish oil, alpha lipoic acid, now melatonin.

Yes I did read my sources and you have misrepresented my position and thus your logic is flawed. I wasn't arguing that it "prevents testosterone from converting to estrogen". I said that melatonin degrades sperm quality, which is clearly stated in the source:

melatonin administration is associated with decreased semen quality



#16 sentrysnipe

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 06:15 AM

Melatonin may induce gynecomastia. Ask the Google.

I wish I learned of this earlier. This could explain why my sex drive has decreased after 1 year of continuous >10mg melatonin. All of these abstracts indicate that melatonin either degrades sperm quality or lowers testosterone production.

http://www.andrology...stract/23/4/572
http://www3.intersci...l...=1&SRETRY=0
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/6299701



You did not even read your own sources. It raises testosterone through aromatase inhibition at the testicular level, meaning it prevents testosterone from converting to estrogen.

Melatonin does not induce gynecomastia, otherwise we would hear all about it. If you make that kind of claim then provide evidence.

First vitamin C is bad, then fish oil, alpha lipoic acid, now melatonin.

Yes I did read my sources and you have misrepresented my position and thus your logic is flawed. I wasn't arguing that it "prevents testosterone from converting to estrogen". I said that melatonin degrades sperm quality, which is clearly stated in the source:

melatonin administration is associated with decreased semen quality


Hey there :-D You could probably safely increase your OptiZinc intake morning and night to help your T levels while tapering off on melatonin.

#17 medicineman

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 11:01 AM

surely, it lists gyny as a side effect in some of the research.... Ill check mmmm;

-these studies are cited as stating that it does:

  • Shannon M. Alternative medicines toxicology: a review of selected agents. Clin Toxicol 1999;37:709-13.
  • Guardiola-Lemaître B. Toxicology of melatonin. J Biol Rhythms 1997;12:697-706.
I have not gotten a chance to review them individually, as soon as I do, I will post again.

#18 Eran Winters

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Posted 26 December 2009 - 12:50 AM

I started taking Melatonin 2 months ago. I was taking 3 mg (major reliable brand) 2-3 days a week. One month after this, I started to feel pain in my breasts every time I touched them (i.e. when hugging my girlfriend). First I thought I just got hurt somehow, so I didn't go to a doctor. But in a matter of three weeks, I found large hard "glands" in my breasts. My doctor immediately rushed me to the breast sonography afraid it might be male breast cancer. Diagnosis: Gynecomasty

I never had any problems with hormones or anything related to that. I am 30 years old straight male, so hormones should be stable at my age. Melatonin is the only supplement I am (was) taking. So it was pin-pointed as the root cause of my gynecomasty. And it took only around a dozen 3 mg capsules to start this humiliating process.

I know this is no evidence, it's just an "anecdote". But I wanted to post it here anyway. I understand this will not happen to most Melatonin users, but still, it might happen to you. It's always a gamble.

#19 pycnogenol

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Posted 26 December 2009 - 02:42 AM

I started taking Melatonin 2 months ago. I was taking 3 mg 2-3 days a week.


Why did you start at 3 milligrams? Maybe you should of started out at much lower strength such as 300 micrograms.

Edited by pycnogenol, 26 December 2009 - 02:43 AM.


#20 Eran Winters

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Posted 26 December 2009 - 07:08 PM

Why did you start at 3 milligrams? Maybe you should of started out at much lower strength such as 300 micrograms.


I wanted to go with NOW brand so I could be sure about the purity. Their only pure Melatonin product is 3 mg/dose. Plus I was really convinced that Melatonin is extremely safe with no side effects (especially when it extended life of mice in experiments).

Now I know you are right, I should have started with 0.3 mg dose. That would probably be sufficient to kickstart regular sleep rhythm.

I have read that gynecomastia will return to normal in ~80% of cases upon restoring the Estrogens / Androgens balance. Do you have any advice how to help restore the hormonal balance?

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#21 sentrysnipe

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Posted 27 December 2009 - 12:01 AM

Why did you start at 3 milligrams? Maybe you should of started out at much lower strength such as 300 micrograms.


I wanted to go with NOW brand so I could be sure about the purity. Their only pure Melatonin product is 3 mg/dose. Plus I was really convinced that Melatonin is extremely safe with no side effects (especially when it extended life of mice in experiments).

Now I know you are right, I should have started with 0.3 mg dose. That would probably be sufficient to kickstart regular sleep rhythm.

I have read that gynecomastia will return to normal in ~80% of cases upon restoring the Estrogens / Androgens balance. Do you have any advice how to help restore the hormonal balance?



0. AVOID beta sitosterol, saw palmetto, lavender, tea tree, guggul/guggulsterones, milk thistle/silymarin, borage oil, quercetin, genistein and other soy products for the mean time.

1. Get a male hormone panel blood test.

2. You could try cranking up your GSE. It is an aromatase inhibitor.
Grape seed extract is an aromatase inhibitor and a suppressor of aromatase expression. Cancer Res. 2006 Jun 1;66(11):5960-7.

3. Take Phosphatidylcholine, Taurine to help the liver flush out the extra estrogens quicker. Do not take milk thistle (it is an egfr inhibitor and may induce gynecomastia, see #0).

4. You can try taking DIM but some people have reported experiencing migraines, headache, and hair loss so beware.

5. OptiZinc to increase FT but I don't know if you need that. See #1.

Good luck and best of health! ;)




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