284 replies to this topic

[spermidine]

spermidine, anything in excess in B.A.D.. Stick to the recommended dose and you should be set.


I have a new supplement to add the the shit list, Phenylalanine + choline bitartate + Bocopa + Ginko.
That ruined my grades so much... I studied for 3+ hours on a single paper, and didn't retain anything, absolutely nothing and there were only about 10 sentences I was looking at the whole time. In the end I scored lower than I would have If I had never taken supplements, had never attend the class, and had been asleep for most of my life.

This test was multiple choice, but I scored less than 50% even though this was a test where every question offered a 50% chance of being right.
it breaks the laws of probability.... Fuck that cheap ass supplement.
Ironically it was being marketed as a brain boaster, BS, realistically it could be given to prisoners before they are put on Death row, so they don't whine about they're impending death.

I pray I don't have brain damage, the fact that I lost a lot of memories while I was on this supplement is not reassuring.

^ i know everything in excess can become problematic but a lot of times i get a result if i up the doses of specific substances and its hard to notice anything to know if they work when minimum or "balanced".

and why combo anything with phenylalanine ? by itself it just helps with mood but its difficult to study or memorize stuff on it.
silly idea to combine it with other supposed memory boosters. and choline bitartate is absolutely useless.

Edited by spermidine, 26 February 2013 - 01:59 AM.

[maik2013]

About 10 years ago, i was weightlifting and taking the usual supplements. I also ordered creatine and i got sick, like a cold or a mild flu. I think i repeated it and stopped the creatine. I looked on the internet and found others reporting the same. After a long search i noticed this is a common problem with creatine but not all are getting it. Then i stumbled upon a post which said that it's manufactured in China and that it's not pure and there is a micro compound in it which makes you sick. I don't know how it is today, but i order my creatine on kreatin.de which is produced in Germany by Degussa. No side effects at all. I experienced a brain fog with amino acids recently and feel much better without it. I will try them again and order from a quality source, although my supplier had certificates that it's 100% pure and it looked ok to me, but it was also very cheap.
http://www.longecity...en/#entry568378
I just want to say, that i have experienced this with a lot of supplements. I had OPC/Resveratrol pills over years from a supplier and i felt great with it, then they have changed something and i didn't feel good with it at all. Added substances and contaminations are a problem in my opinion and it's really important to be concious about how you feel, if necessary make quick decisions and remove supplements and also take the work and find real quality suppliers. But in the end you just might react bad to the substance, but like i pointed out with my two examples, it's the question of how many of bad reactions really come down to the substance. All my things from the linked plan are without magnesium stearate (except melatonin) or titanium dioxide for example. I really don't know if they are a problem but i want to go sure.

Edited by maik2013, 26 February 2013 - 08:35 AM.

[withdrawn]

Garlic capsules - Gives me nightmares no matter what time of day I take them - but I feel a slight relief from depression and my focus becomes stronger, though it increases focusing on my problems stronger too, which is not necessarily proactive. (If i eat garlic in food which has been cooked etc, I am fine??)

Camu Camu - If I take two to three capsules of these pretty berries for a few days, I always always always put on weight. I't makes me bigger. My weight will increase by about 3/4 lbs after a few days use. I have no idea why.

B-Vitamins - I am not sure which specific b vitamin it is, but I have bought complexes in the past and they make me depressed??? and I always end up developing a stye on my eye lid???? this always happen. I cannot explain it. I am actually scared of b vitamins because the brain fog/depression they seem to create in my head.

Lecithin - Soy derived makes me extremely depressed and suicidal. I switched over to egg yolk lecithin and never experienced any depression. I then tried sunflower lecithin granules and that night, I became extremely fearful and paranoid for no valid reason. This happened almost every night I had taken it. I have realised since, that only egg yolk lecithin works well with me.

Edited by withdrawn, 26 February 2013 - 04:22 PM.

[spermidine]

^ so at last i know sunflower lecithin definately has some bioavaiability. i always thought its some kind of silly alternative to the lecithin widely available on the market. not sure why it would cause fear, paranoia tho. maybe its combination of things ? which brand did you buy anyway so i give it a test drive ?

[withdrawn]

^ so at last i know sunflower lecithin definately has some bioavaiability. i always thought its some kind of silly alternative to the lecithin widely available on the market. not sure why it would cause fear, paranoia tho. maybe its combination of things ? which brand did you buy anyway so i give it a test drive ?

Lanes lecisun lecithin granules..

Not sure why it had that affect on me neither. I tend to suffer from anxiety/fear, and the sunflower lecithin just seem to have magnified it. It tastes really nice though! quite nutty and buttery. I could have eaten spoonfuls of it!

[sunking101]

Soy lecithin makes me depressed and gives me a dry mouth. Sunflower lecithin made my tinnitus much, much worse so I had to stop after two capsules. I can't comment on dry mouth or depression as I couldn't continue with the sunflower lecithin. Both types were Now Foods liquid capsules.

[blueinfinity]

Multi-vitamins, especially the liquid ones, make me tired and lethargic (I blame it on amounts of B-vitamins).
Ginseng - makes me want to sleep the day away
Green Tea - does the same thing as ginseng 0.o?

Generally if it is supposed to give me energy, it makes me want to sleep. The only exception is coffee, it makes me wired beyond control.

I actually feel this same way with most caffeine substances, although after drinking green tea (3-5 cups a day) I now am somewhat used to the effects and no longer makes me tired. and coffee is just tastes like roasted beans, not much effect either way, but still i would lean towards making me more tired than away like most others. I wonder what it is. if it is aCH i wonder if i need more than i currently take, about 2 eggs in the morning (whole including white and yolks) and about a TB of lecithin a day... I wonder...

Generally if it is supposed to give me energy, it makes me want to sleep. The only exception is coffee, it makes me wired beyond control.

I suspect an ACh deficiency. Try some CDP-choline to see if it helps.

The worst reaction I've gotten from a supplement was from, believe it or not, Resveratrol

A week after starting it I got a lower back ache that would not go away, then I started getting other pains in my joints. I discontinued use and it took months for these problems to go away.

I'll second this! Very similar effect.

Ive heard resveratrol should not be taken as a supplement by some and praised by others.

What is for sure is though the tests and human use has not been available for long enough to confirm any advantages to taking the amount that is usually found in a standalone resveratrol. Its more resveratrol than in years worth of wine.

Cordyceps - Increases energy, stamina, libido and breathing capacity. I didn't feel winded even when working out. Actually, this one is a pretty good supplement. Only downside is that It gave me anxiety and put me in a lousy mood.

Your symptoms seem like a mild/acute version of magic mushrooms or psilocybin. Is there a similar but much weaker effect on the body from cordyceps like the magical mushrooms?

[hippocampus]

Lecithin - Soy derived makes me extremely depressed and suicidal. I switched over to egg yolk lecithin and never experienced any depression. I then tried sunflower lecithin granules and that night, I became extremely fearful and paranoid for no valid reason. This happened almost every night I had taken it. I have realised since, that only egg yolk lecithin works well with me.

Same here, except I don't become paranoid.

[cATsE]

I'll add another adverse reaction: methylcobalamin reproducibly causes bad physical anxiety, with agitation and chest tightness. Not good. No such reaction from methylfolate (another methyl donor) or cyanacobalamin, so it seems to be very specific to methylcobalamin.

I had this same reaction to methylcobalamine which is why I stopped it a couple of years ago. It probably means your body is saturated with it. My cousin also started using it. He likes how edgy it makes him but I notice that he too, became anxious even doing some nail-bitting. Can't convince him to get off it though..

Interesting. You guys ought to try taking equal amounts of methyl-B12 and adenosyl-B12.
I've got some good effects from Thorne B Complex #12.

Quercetin (250mg): I got a feeling of an impending asthma attack. I used to be asthmatic as a child, but I haven't had an attack in years.

Sublingual administration might have had something to do with it, and I was also taking a full milligram.

I might try the thorne basic b-complex, has slightly lower doses of B12 as well as superior forms of the other b-vitamins: http://www.iherb.com...Caps/18791?at=1

But also a ridiculously high amount of B6, unfortunately...

Speaking about adverse effects; after taking a vitamin B sup for a week, I first started to wake up with my two pinkies feeling numb. Couple of days later the numbness had spreaded to my ring fingers and by the end of that 2nd week my middle finger was also numb. Not that it was permanent, because within 5 minutes after I got out of bed it was gone. But it worried me because I never had something like that before!

After doing some research I arrived at the conclusion that it must have been from that Vitamin B sup and specifically from the large amount of B6 that was in it - about the same as is in that Thorne formulation. Two days after I stopped taking it everything was back to normal.

Later I also discovered that taking large amounts of B6 for a long period of time *may* cause permanent nerve damage in some people. Since then I always check whenever I buy a multivitamin for how much B6 is in it, and most have crazy amounts of some of the B's, specifically B6! Why is that anyway?

[ironfistx]

You sure you just weren't coincidentally sleeping on your arms or something? If I sleep on my stomach with my elbows bent and my arms under my body (so comfy!) I wake up and my pinky and ring fingers are numb.

It could've been the B vitamin (probably the B6). Sometimes it's used to treat nerve damage but I think I read that doses of above 200mg for extended periods of time can cause nerve damage.

Edited by ironfistx, 24 May 2013 - 02:36 AM.

[estranged]

I had a terrible reaction to vinpocetine. Even 1 mg of it made me feel terrible. It caused an extreme pressure in my brain I felt my head was going to explode and it lasted a few days. May be there is a problem with the the source naturals brand I used because I remember using a brain formulation which included 2.5 mg of vinpocetine and didn't have such reaction.

[MrXIII]

Niacin - Gave me skin flushing the first few times. Now I think my body got used to it
ZMA - Gives me insomnia and headache and dizziness the next day (still trying with it by changing the dosage and time I take it, but I'm still sleepless. I have faith it will start to have the sleep effect though
grapefruit extract - Made my semen taste very acidic according to my gf In the past I used to have (still according to her) a very very mild and sweet semen.

Edited by MrXIII, 05 August 2013 - 06:15 PM.

[balance]

grapefruit extract - Made my semen taste very acidic according to my gf In the past I used to have (still according to her) a very very mild and sweet semen.

Thanks for sharing...

[mikeinnaples]

Niacin - Gave me skin flushing the first few times. Now I think my body got used to it

That isn't exactly causing you harm.

That is perfectly normal and safe reaction to niacin, not only that, it is the expected result to taking regular nicotinic acid as aopposed to a flush free formula. (note: you should be taking regular nicotinic acid anyways....)

[hamishm00]

IP6 - reasonably sure that this gave me mild iron deficiency.

[Dorian Grey]

IP6 - reasonably sure that this gave me mild iron deficiency.

IP6 really does chelate iron... When I discovered my iron was mildly elevated I was donating blood and taking IP6 at the same time. I got my ferritin from nearly 200, down into the teens in less than a year and got to experience the fatigue of anemia first hand.

Fortunately, my iron rebounded back into the sweet spot (40-60) within a month after I stopped chelation/donation. An interesting experience to be sure. Iron reduction turned out to be my fountain of youth, and this is one old guy who feels ten years younger now that I've got my iron down to more youthful levels.

IP6 is a great iron reduction supp, particularly for those who can not or will not donate blood. Just watch your ferritin (stored iron) levels carefully and start cycling off once you get ferritin down around 50.

Edited by synesthesia, 12 August 2013 - 02:46 AM.

[hamishm00]

IP6 is a great iron reduction supp, particularly for those who can not or will not donate blood. Just watch your ferritin (stored iron) levels carefully and start cycling off once you get ferritin down around 50.

Thanks for the response.

I agree 100% with your comments, always get your iron checked if you're supplementing with IP6. It really does suck the iron out of you, especially if you're taking it on an empty stomach.

Glad you are feeling better!

[mikeinnaples]

Don't take IP6 near any meals and you generally should be fine.

[hamishm00]

I believe it will cause more harm (chelating iron; reducing iron levels) on an empty stomach.

[empedocles]

ALCAR - Brain Fog
Bacopa - excessive sleepiness , fatigue, total loss of libido (after 4 weeks use)
Tyrosine - diarrhoea
Pramiracetam - Muscle twitches - intense jaw clenching, so much so i felt lie i was going to crush my teeth.
Inisotol - muscle twitches
Oxyracetam - Non beneficial Personality change (after long term use)
Noopept - migraines for the first 6 weeks of administration - however, after a washout period this has now become my nootropic of choice (no headaches, clarity of thought)
Edit - Forgot Vinpocetine - massive headaches and blurred vision - roughly 25 minutes after administration

Edited by empedocles, 13 August 2013 - 01:52 PM.

[mikeinnaples]

I believe it will cause more harm (chelating iron; reducing iron levels) on an empty stomach.

What makes you believe that?

Wouldn't introducing an iron chelator cause more harm when taken with a meal, before your body has a chance to absorb and use the iron it needs?

Personal experience: I take 600mg IP6 nightly before bed and have never gone anemic. I've been doing this for about 5 years.

[hamishm00]

If you take ip6 with a meal I believe it's impact on blood iron levels will be significantly muted as it would have bound to the minerals in the food. This is probably a desirable effect, effectively reducing your overall iron intake / absorption rate.

If you take IP6 on an empty stomach, my experience and the experience of others (some of it backed up by bloodwork) is that it is extremely well absorbed into the blood has a profound negative impact on serum iron levels. The ip6 seems to be attracted to iron on a preferential basis, binding with it, resulting in its excretion from your body.

Your dosing rate of 600mg per night may indeed be a safe / desirable dose. I was dosing higher than that at 1.5 grams.

Edited by hamishm00, 13 August 2013 - 03:03 PM.

[penisbreath]

i know this will sound crazy, but i do journal quite extensively and am also well-attuned to my body, so all of these reactions are genuine. i should also note that my sensitivity has worsened over time.

Magnesium - anxiety/insomnia
Zinc - helpful for concentration and anxiety, but makes me dysphoric
Taurine - anxiety/insomnia
Niacinamide - helpful for anxiety, but makes me nauseous
Jarrow's B-Right - agitated and anxious
methylfolate - agitated and anxious
methylb12 - agitated and anxious
NAC - more energy (mental and physical) but makes me feel a little 'wired'; also causes respiratory depression with regular use
High-EPA fish oil - manic after a week
Curcumin - improved pain and energy, but made me anxious and agitated
Olive Leaf Extract - like funk, not sure if it was a herx-like thing but felt more jittery and anxious
Ginseng - increased anxiety
Resveratrol - increased anxiety
Vitamin C - disturbs sleep if taken before bed
Vitamin D - i'm deficient but supplementing increases anxiety, so not sure how to work around that little hurdle ..

So there you have it. There's probably a bunch I'm forgetting, but basically supplements don't really help me in anyway

[mikeinnaples]

If you take ip6 with a meal I believe it's impact on blood iron levels will be significantly muted as it would have bound to the minerals in the food. This is probably a desirable effect, effectively reducing your overall iron intake / absorption rate.

If you take IP6 on an empty stomach, my experience and the experience of others (some of it backed up by bloodwork) is that it is extremely well absorbed into the blood has a profound negative impact on serum iron levels. The ip6 seems to be attracted to iron on a preferential basis, binding with it, resulting in its excretion from your body.

Your dosing rate of 600mg per night may indeed be a safe / desirable dose. I was dosing higher than that at 1.5 grams.

It was this very forum that led me down the path of taking IP6 away from meals rather than with meals. Trying to dig it up, but unfortunately the search functionality is not cooperating.

[hamishm00]

Mike, I am not suggesting taking ip6 with meals. What I am saying is that taking it on an empty stomach will have a significant impact on blood iron levels . taking it with meals is less likely to directly chelate iron in your blood. Rather it will bind to what's in your stomach. If you take it on an empty stomach, depending on your dose it may keep your iron at a desirably low level, or it may cause you to become iron deficient, is something you should watch carefully.

For me, the dose I took on an empty stomach was too high for too long.

If I was to resume supplementation, I would still take it on an empty stomach. I would just take low doses of it, probably cycle it, and also get regular blood tests.

[Dorian Grey]

I believe IP6 binds all divalent metals... Copper, zinc, lead, manganese, iron, cadmium, magnesium, calcium, and arsenic.

When taken with food/meals, IP6 will quickly get loaded up with what ever minerals present in the meal, including some of the good guys (magnesium/zinc), but is then unable to enter the blood intact with any capacity for further binding of minerals in plasma. I believe there are enough minerals in most any meal to totally load a 500mg dose of IP6.

From what I've read (sorry I don't have a source), IP6 can not touch minerals bound to proteins like hemoglobin, ferritin, or transferrin, but only binds free iron (the most dangerous kind) in plasma, as well as other trace minerals mentioned above which must be replaced through dietary intake.

Here's one study that states deficiencies are not supposed to occur, though perhaps this can occur in aggressive therapy.
http://www.pjoes.com...7.2/283-290.pdf

Effect of Inositol Hexaphosphate on Lipopolysaccharide-Stimulated Release of TNF-α from Human Mononuclear Cells

"It has been shown that
the antinutritional effect of IP6 could be manifested only
when large amounts of IP6 were consumed together with
a diet poor in trace elements, but if essential minerals
were present in the proper ratio with respect to IP6, there
was no modification of mineral balance [7]. Studies in
rats fed IP6 showed no significant toxic effects on serum
or bone mineral deficiency [8]. Furthermore, the analysis
of IP6 effect on mineral status in rats fed for a long time
period through a second generation to evaluate possible
effects related to a pregnancy and lactation revealed no
decrease in mineral bioavailability, with the exception
of lower zinc levels in bone [9]. In addition, rats fed an
equilibrated purified diet with IP6 showed about 10-fold
higher concentrations of zinc in bone compared to the
control animal group [6]. It has also been reported that
a high IP6-containing diet did not negatively affect rat
plasma copper and zinc concentrations [10] and no relation of zinc deficiency with IP6 has been observed in
women who ingested vegetarian or meat-based diet with
equal IP6 contents [11]."

------------------------------------

From the study, it appears low doses are the way to go, at least in regards to TNF-a (if you're trying to reduce it).

Edited by synesthesia, 14 August 2013 - 01:29 AM.

[MrXIII]

Guaraná makes the top of my eyes sore. I notice the pain if I move them from side to side. They get sore a few minutes after I take 400mg (1caps), even before the guarana energy kicks in.
Any ideia of the reason for this to happen?

[BlueCloud]

There aren't really many supplements that I could say have caused me harm. Most of them were simply completely ineffective.

One however that I particularly hated was Phenibut. I took one little dose, and had an anxiolytic effect that was pretty decent. It was however followed the day after by the WORST hangover of my entire life, that lasted almost 48 hours of feeling sick as a dog. Needless to say, I threw the bottle in the garbage and never looked back.

Some forms of SJW make me superwired and even more anxious than I usually am. Some brands of Bacopa made me depressed, and SAM-e made me as angry as The Hulk on crack.

The worst harm I have ever got was not from supplements but from most anti-depressants, I went thru many of them a decade ago, and some made me as miserable as you can get, especially SSRIs and SNRIs. I hate them with a passion. Only Moclobemide was ok ( and ironically , it was the one i was afraid of the most because of the tyramine issues, but i never had a problem with it, and it was the gentler AD i've been thru )

[geo12the]

HMB (Hydroxy Methylbutyrate)- major major brain fog. No longer take it.

[vtrader]

The way I feel right now, EVERYTHINGGGGGGG.