84 replies to this topic

[425runner]

Just an FYI - Senator Mc Cain is behind all this FDA crap http://www.capwiz.co...l...781&type=CO

[Mike M]

Ended up going to see them instead of having them come see me. Had to answer some basic questions, but they didn't issue me anything. They didn't say what their future action might be. At this point, I have nothing to offer other than the fact the FDA has a big interest in this stuff.

I'd imagine shelf life at 2-3 years without issue.

[chrono]

Very strange. It's sounding more and more from the way they're going about this that they suspect you of some kind of impropriety. Maybe based on something that supplier told them? Otherwise you'd think that they'd be investigating more people (like CH) who sell in bulk, and not following a line back from a single source. Well actually, you wouldn't think they'd be "investigating" anyone for selling a perfectly legal and non-harmful substance, even if it was going to be prescription/unapproved soon.

Just theorizing about a weird situation, of course. I think I'll probably stock up myself, if there's even a chance this is leading to regulatory action. For me, piracetam is an important part of a strategy to avoid adderall. So again, thanks mike, even if it turns out to be something else.


I'm just finishing up a 1fast400 tub that is at least 2 years old, and I don't see any difference in efficacy with the brand-new stuff some friends have. Despite what one person said here recently, it doesn't oxidize when exposed to air repeatedly (well, at least its appearance doesn't change in any way). Though for long-term storage, I would definitely seal up what isn't being used, it will probably prolong its shelf life.

Edited by chrono, 18 February 2010 - 08:22 AM.

[catfanatic1979]

Just an FYI - Senator Mc Cain is behind all this FDA crap http://www.capwiz.co...l...781&type=CO

All the more reason to vote him out during the primary.

[russianBEAR]

I think the US government wants to make nootropics illegal, because they'd much rather have people loaded with opiates, antidepressants and benzos since they aren't exactly "a thinking man's substances". They also do the job in terms of securing lifetime clientele since you usually don't get off said substances.

It's more in their interests to keep the population as dumb as possible, because of the way Americans are conditioned through the supposed "freedom of speech" and the illusion of having "rights"...Around here they can sell all the noots you want because no matter how smart or stupid you are there's a 99% chance you already know that the KGB runs this shit and you may want to just be a good boy

So maybe they don't want people smartening up to their bullshit and want to keep everyone dumbed down IMO. I find it hilarious because piracetam has been used ALL throughout Europe since about the late 70's if not earlier...so you know they've got a different agenda.

Anyways, if you fly to Russia and pay me some cash, I'll meet you at the airport and take you noot shopping right from the passport control

[JLL]

Anyways, if you fly to Russia and pay me some cash, I'll meet you at the airport and take you noot shopping right from the passport control

I may take you up on that offer one day... Finland is pretty close!

[ian1983]

I do hope it doesn't get banned.

I've started back on the Piracetam and find it brilliant for mental energy.

If it does get banned I'll have to take the plunge and buy 3 kg from SP. Being in the UK it'd be a killer on import duty though.

[Mike M]

We generally mark our internationals at half price.

[ian1983]

We generally mark our internationals at half price.

I know Mike, I heard about your new website from when you were posting as Primaforce on the dog maybe 18 months ago and ordered then

[Jurence]

Just got another call from them. Having a meeting tomorrow so they can ask more questions and give me some paperwork.

Mike, I think you need to call your congressman or whatever small government advocate you can find. I'm sure not too many people are aware and light needs to be shed on this. Fight it.

As for me, I'm stocking up. How long of a shelf life does this stuff have?

"One year" however, temperature controlled, sealed package, no light- probably much much longer. 10 years? Synapse may be able to say.

I really think big pharma is behind this trying to get it made available only via prescription, despite the fact that there is so much backing to it. How quickly can it be made illegal? I mean, look at OBVIOUSLY new illegal substances- it takes at LEAST 2 months, with 30 days of public notice.

Edited by Jurence, 25 February 2010 - 08:21 PM.

[NeverSayDie]

I think that these supplement manufacturers will adapt to these laws. I mean, it certainly seems inevitable that eventually the government will try to take our health freedom away. It's happened in Europe, Canada, Australia, etc. To think that it won't happen here is ridiculous.

I think that supplement makers have to find a loophole in the laws that may come about with the impending bill.

The FDA (although named the Food and Drug Administration) does not really have much jurisdiction with foods. This is why DSHEA was such a victory because supplements were classified as foods, thus eliminating the cumbersome meddling of those bafoons from the FDA.

With the new bill, nutritional supplement companies may have to do away with "supplements" altogether and just call these nutritional products "food" or "functional food."

I don't know... I know that it sounds like wild-eyed conspiracy theory, but I don't think that the FDA are too concerned with the safety of dietary supplements as much as they are concerned with the safety of big pharma profits.

We always talk about "freedom" in this country- "we're fighting in Iraq for freedom", "we're restoring freedom and democracy around the world", etc- yet our most basic freedoms are being usurped from us right in front of our noses.

If anything, this bill will only make supplements more dangerous. It may seem ironic, but i think its true. You'll always be able to get every one of these supplements- hell, you can score pure heroin on the street if you want to. This bill will only drive nutritional supplement companies underground where all hell might break loose.

[Neuro-active]

I think that these supplement manufacturers will adapt to these laws. I mean, it certainly seems inevitable that eventually the government will try to take our health freedom away. It's happened in Europe, Canada, Australia, etc. To think that it won't happen here is ridiculous.

I think that supplement makers have to find a loophole in the laws that may come about with the impending bill.

The FDA (although named the Food and Drug Administration) does not really have much jurisdiction with foods. This is why DSHEA was such a victory because supplements were classified as foods, thus eliminating the cumbersome meddling of those bafoons from the FDA.

With the new bill, nutritional supplement companies may have to do away with "supplements" altogether and just call these nutritional products "food" or "functional food."

I don't know... I know that it sounds like wild-eyed conspiracy theory, but I don't think that the FDA are too concerned with the safety of dietary supplements as much as they are concerned with the safety of big pharma profits.

We always talk about "freedom" in this country- "we're fighting in Iraq for freedom", "we're restoring freedom and democracy around the world", etc- yet our most basic freedoms are being usurped from us right in front of our noses.

If anything, this bill will only make supplements more dangerous. It may seem ironic, but i think its true. You'll always be able to get every one of these supplements- hell, you can score pure heroin on the street if you want to. This bill will only drive nutritional supplement companies underground where all hell might break loose.

It helps me sleep at night knowing there are people like you still left on this earth. Thought I was the only one.

[Johann]

Anyone here that wants to keep the racetams from being banned needs to get the word out about how effective they are. Don't just do it here at imminst, go elsewhere. Email your friends, go to bulletin boards that have nothing to do with noots and tell them.. let it be known every where...

[russianBEAR]

Well I figure I gotta side with big pharma here, since there's a slightly bigger chance then of people taking me up on my offer above )))


Pretty crazy stuff though, around here they sell all kinds of pills without prescription because the pharmacy wants to maximize its profits, and stuff like benzos, tramadol, anti-psychotics, and other "hardcore pharmaceuticals" are only sold strictly prescription-only in state-run pharmacies, and kept in safes (I'm not kiddin, they were opening a big ol' vault with huge locks when I was shopping for Clonazepam and Tramadol one day)

So it's not like they ever have to worry about getting in trouble in the privately-run ones.

The US is going a different route - trying to outlaw a class of drugs so the others rake in more profits...go figure

Edited by russianBEAR, 01 March 2010 - 10:15 AM.

[Jurence]

Well I figure I gotta side with big pharma here, since there's a slightly bigger chance then of people taking me up on my offer above )))


Pretty crazy stuff though, around here they sell all kinds of pills without prescription because the pharmacy wants to maximize its profits, and stuff like benzos, tramadol, anti-psychotics, and other "hardcore pharmaceuticals" are only sold strictly prescription-only in state-run pharmacies, and kept in safes (I'm not kiddin, they were opening a big ol' vault with huge locks when I was shopping for Clonazepam and Tramadol one day)

So it's not like they ever have to worry about getting in trouble in the privately-run ones.

The US is going a different route - trying to outlaw a class of drugs so the others rake in more profits...go figure

Because teenagers get high off of antipsychotics. Lol.

[synapse]

I put together an open letter in response to our recent letter from the FDA at http://www.cerebralh...alhealthfda.php

[skylined]

I'm with NeverSayDie and Neuro-active on this one. Banning things never stops anything, and the only real effect is the utter destruction of the lives of so many people and manufacture of the aforementioned substance moving into the black market where there are really not that many labs with PhD scientists and strict cGMP standards. There's also the fact if you can't get something in one country you just get it from another. Customs doesn't have the time or resources to check every single package - so as long as your "illegal vitamins" (wow that just sounds ridiculous doesn't it) aren't radioactive, containing smallpox, fireworks or weapons, you've got a good chance of receiving it free of harmful interference from "your" government. Being scientists or scientific-method minded individuals here, I think we all need to ask a simple question when suspicious things like this come up - this question, first and foremost: Who benefits? Big pharma, among others. It's the same reason that the logic of preventive medicine, natural, sustainable and healthy living and good nutrition is not anywhere near as widespread or accepted as it should be. If we were a nation of people who ate good food, nutrients and got exercise, how many Rxs per year of statin drugs or cholesterol drugs or blood pressure drugs would be sold? Not nearly as many as now, not even close. It's also much easier for certain elements to have people doped up on benzos in brain damaging stupefaction than citizens with enhanced intelligence and creative function. Fuck the FDA, and fuck ANYONE who tries to take our freedom away - WE are responsible for our own health and our own lives, and WE choose what we put in our bodies. This applies to all of our supplement regimens as well as our nootropic ones - if the FDA takes control of piracetam, what's next? To everyone: Do your best, as in take action, to make sure this DSSA nonsense goes no further. If it passes, do your best to subvert it, continue getting the nootropics and supplements that keeps you healthy, and fight it at every turn.

Edited by skylined, 05 March 2010 - 04:58 AM.

[skylined]

One other thing I should mention - I read the Piracetam study that UCB did (or rather the meta-analysis study) and it basically showed that piracetam was not one of the more useful drugs, especially as compared to Donepezil, for example. Looking at the results of the study I don't think UCB is honestly going to see piracetam as a fruitful avenue of research to prevent cognitive decline (e.g. MCI -> AD). This is far from a be all and and end all of course, and many members of these boards are seeing many positive effects from it. Perhaps it doesn't work as well at all in people experience neurological decline as it does in the healthy? I also didn't see any mention of pairing choline with the piracetam in the study, which might also affect it's efficacy. Still, I think big pharma sees more potential with acetylcholinesterase inhibitors. Just my .02 there.

[russianBEAR]

Well I figure I gotta side with big pharma here, since there's a slightly bigger chance then of people taking me up on my offer above )))


Pretty crazy stuff though, around here they sell all kinds of pills without prescription because the pharmacy wants to maximize its profits, and stuff like benzos, tramadol, anti-psychotics, and other "hardcore pharmaceuticals" are only sold strictly prescription-only in state-run pharmacies, and kept in safes (I'm not kiddin, they were opening a big ol' vault with huge locks when I was shopping for Clonazepam and Tramadol one day)

So it's not like they ever have to worry about getting in trouble in the privately-run ones.

The US is going a different route - trying to outlaw a class of drugs so the others rake in more profits...go figure

Because teenagers get high off of antipsychotics. Lol.

Haloperidol and Cyclodol in combination is a viable hallucinogen used by quite a few drug addicts around here. You don't wanna take one without the other though Also around here we got over the counter Codeine pills, so it's not like they're having a war on prescription abuse by locking up other pills. 


You can also get Phenazepam (a Russian benzo, which is horrible, but a benzo nonetheless) pretty much over the counter as well. 

Pretty much Russia's got the craziest druggies...ever though of taking Levodopa in between meth "marathons" so you can get more high on speed later ?

[425runner]

Sounds like you have a bunch of "wild and crazy guys" over there in Russia.



Haloperidol and Cyclodol in combination is a viable hallucinogen used by quite a few drug addicts around here. You don't wanna take one without the other though Also around here we got over the counter Codeine pills, so it's not like they're having a war on prescription abuse by locking up other pills. 


You can also get Phenazepam (a Russian benzo, which is horrible, but a benzo nonetheless) pretty much over the counter as well. 

Pretty much Russia's got the craziest druggies...ever though of taking Levodopa in between meth "marathons" so you can get more high on speed later ?
[/quote]

[Lestat Rett]

Looking at the structure of 'cyclodol' it looks like an antimuscarinic, if my SAR knowhow is anything to go by, damn, thats...lets just say it isn't a combination I would fancy myself.
Is it a case of using haloperidol to damp down the raving delirium produced thusly, or using the antimuscarinic to damp down nasty ass extrapyramidal side effects of haloperidol (which I have read can cause non-schizophrenic people to go completely bonkers) ?

Russianbear, have you tried phenazepam personally? I know its long acting as hell, it isn't used here in the UK, but I've been thinking of aqquiring a gram or two myself, how does it compare to more common ones, from what I have read its potency is up there with the triazolo-ring substituted benzos, like triazolam, alprazolam etc, but half life more in common with diazepam and clonazepam.

Edited by Lestat Rett, 13 March 2010 - 12:29 AM.

[chrono]

As of March 4th bodybuilding.com has "discontinued" their Primaforce piracetam. Any word on whether this is related?

Edited by chrono, 16 March 2010 - 07:01 AM.

[russianBEAR]

Looking at the structure of 'cyclodol' it looks like an antimuscarinic, if my SAR knowhow is anything to go by, damn, thats...lets just say it isn't a combination I would fancy myself.
Is it a case of using haloperidol to damp down the raving delirium produced thusly, or using the antimuscarinic to damp down nasty ass extrapyramidal side effects of haloperidol (which I have read can cause non-schizophrenic people to go completely bonkers) ?

Russianbear, have you tried phenazepam personally? I know its long acting as hell, it isn't used here in the UK, but I've been thinking of aqquiring a gram or two myself, how does it compare to more common ones, from what I have read its potency is up there with the triazolo-ring substituted benzos, like triazolam, alprazolam etc, but half life more in common with diazepam and clonazepam.

The consensus here is that phenazepam is crap. I tried it many times and it gives me this nasty chemical aftertaste like Phenotropyl only worse, and it's pretty much something to have as a last resort kind of thing, if you're having some seizure or something or overdone stimulants...Sure the potency is right around where Valium is, but you don't get nowhere near as clean of an effect from it.

Valium is a much "smoother" substance, and Clonazepam is by far the best (but most addicting) benzo, not counting Roofies, which I think are illegal everywhere but Estonia nowadays  

The triazolo-ring benzos as far as I remember are usually shorter acting, but produce a better euphoria. This one is in the category of long-acting benzos, but it is completely trumped even by Valium, so if you can get that, or get clonazepam but don't get hooked  

By the way, did anyone have their body start rejecting benzos completely ? At some point I just couldn't take any more benzos - I'd throw up mucus for 48 hours and barely feel any effect, while my friends were taking the exact same batch of pills saying everything is just fine. I get that side effect that affects about 0.1% of all users according to the clonazepam manual. 

Go figure it is strange, but it's like that with every benzo and I just can't take em anymore though I used to eat em like candy

[Lestat Rett]

I was only thinking of getting it for A-its cheap price per gram, in powder form, never heard of it being sold in pill form, although thats probably as I don't live anywhere near russia, and B-long action, which could be helpful on those rare occasions for me when the annoying parts of being autistic outweigh the positive advantages, 2-3g should be nearly a lifetime supply!

I do have some diazepam, can get access to temazepam, diazepam etc no problem, although benzos that metabolise to oxazepam induce in me a delayed paradoxical reaction of a stimulating type sometimes.

[flatfish]

All UK sites seem to have stopped selling Piracetam or are sold out (incl sportive supplements that still list it as "in stock"), is that related? Not sure if I want to order from the US and risk having issues with customs...