17 replies to this topic

[rwac]

In October 2009, a group of US scientists published research in the journal Science that suggested that a recently discovered virus called XMRV could be linked to CFS. In their study, 68 out of 101 patients with the illness and 8 out of 218 healthy controls appeared to be infected with the virus.

However, in the study, researchers found no evidence that patients with CFS had the XMRV virus, after analysing tissue samples from 186 patients with CFS using sensitive molecular testing techniques.

This more recent analysis showed no molecular evidence for XMRV in any of the samples from CFS patients. The researchers say this means that anti-retrovirals should not be used to treat CFS, as they would be unlikely to have an effect on the symptoms. However, several labs in the US now offer CFS patients treatments based on the earlier findings that linked the condition with XMRV.

....


"We are confident that our results show there is no link between XMRV and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, at least in the UK. The US study had some dramatic results that implied people with the illness could be treated with anti-retrovirals. Our recommendation to people with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome would be not to change their treatment regime, because our results suggest that anti-retrovirals would not be an effective treatment for the condition," added Professor McClure.

http://www.scienceda...00106003615.htm

[niner]

Interesting. I don't suppose anyone would consider a placebo controlled trial to see if antivirals actually help CFS patients. That would be telling. If someone with CFS goes to great lengths to get antiviral treatment in a non-controlled situation, the probability of a placebo effect would seem to be high. XMRV is one for two. A tie-breaker is needed...

[rwac]

I hear that anti-retrovirals are nasty drugs, overall.
Personally, I probably wouldn't go that route unless there was no other option.

[nito]

Talking about fatigue. Check this.

Had 10 hours sleep. Woke up had a breakfast, a multivitamin, 500 mg choline and went to unversity. 6 hours later, despite having had a redbull as well as the above mentioned ones, i am yawning. Why?? Someone please let me know what this could be due to. I mean i am now sipping on a cappuchino to see if i will still yawn. It frustrated me to the point i went to iherb and ordered alcar and thyoriod in protest and anguish.

I can't manage being last year at college with this kind of tiredness! : /

[Lufega]

Talking about fatigue. Check this.

Had 10 hours sleep. Woke up had a breakfast, a multivitamin, 500 mg choline and went to unversity. 6 hours later, despite having had a redbull as well as the above mentioned ones, i am yawning. Why?? Someone please let me know what this could be due to. I mean i am now sipping on a cappuchino to see if i will still yawn. It frustrated me to the point i went to iherb and ordered alcar and thyoriod in protest and anguish.

I can't manage being last year at college with this kind of tiredness! : /

I have this same problem. 2 hours into a 36 hour guard at the hospital and I am near collapse. Citicoline only helps so much. I have a peripheral neuropathy so I can explain this in terms of that. Have you been tested for one?

[nito]

Talking about fatigue. Check this.

Had 10 hours sleep. Woke up had a breakfast, a multivitamin, 500 mg choline and went to unversity. 6 hours later, despite having had a redbull as well as the above mentioned ones, i am yawning. Why?? Someone please let me know what this could be due to. I mean i am now sipping on a cappuchino to see if i will still yawn. It frustrated me to the point i went to iherb and ordered alcar and thyoriod in protest and anguish.

I can't manage being last year at college with this kind of tiredness! : /

I have this same problem. 2 hours into a 36 hour guard at the hospital and I am near collapse. Citicoline only helps so much. I have a peripheral neuropathy so I can explain this in terms of that. Have you been tested for one?

No not really but i do take CDP too, although i can't claim i feel awake or anything!

[rwac]

No not really but i do take CDP too, although i can't claim i feel awake or anything!

Sounds like you're not sleeping very well.
Have you tested for sleep apnea, do you snore ?

[nito]

No not really but i do take CDP too, although i can't claim i feel awake or anything!

Sounds like you're not sleeping very well.
Have you tested for sleep apnea, do you snore ?

Nope not tested for apnea. I have heard i make a weird "click-noise" when i breath at night, don't think it's the common snore though. Sometimes i wake up not being able to breath, almost like im drowning. It feels as if liquid got into my wind pipe, it's horrible!

[rwac]

Nope not tested for apnea. I have heard i make a weird "click-noise" when i breath at night, don't think it's the common snore though. Sometimes i wake up not being able to breath, almost like im drowning. It feels as if liquid got into my wind pipe, it's horrible!

Do you have nasal congestion or sinusitis or anything like that ?
Could you be having GERD (acid reflux) symptoms ?
Some sort of obstructive sleep apnea is also a possibility.

[brokenportal]

Which nootropics have you tried?

[Logan]

Even with the sleeping issue, caffeine would get the average person going. Also, drinks like redbull have a ton of sugar in them.

I say give up the caffeine(especially the caffeinated drinks with sugar in them) because it does not appear you react positively to it anymore. I started having this same problem at one point.

You could have a deviated septum. My father had his taken care of and has slept like a baby ever since.

Sleep apnea is a possibility as well.

What about stress??

[nito]

Which nootropics have you tried?

The noots i have tried are the following.

Piracetam
CDP
bacopa
Sjw (kira & perika)
B complex
Now adams multi
Vitamin d3
L-tyrosine
Liquid Omega 3
5htp
Ginger extract

I recently ordered Alcar and Thyroid energy. All these noots are mainly to help me through my final year of college of which there is now only 5 moths left of. The only ones im sure of had an impact are CDP, Rhodiola, and tyrosine.

[nito]

Even with the sleeping issue, caffeine would get the average person going. Also, drinks like redbull have a ton of sugar in them.

I say give up the caffeine(especially the caffeinated drinks with sugar in them) because it does not appear you react positively to it anymore. I started having this same problem at one point.

You could have a deviated septum. My father had his taken care of and has slept like a baby ever since.

Sleep apnea is a possibility as well.

What about stress??

Yes i am going through lots of college stress at the moment, with lots of assignments and tight deadlines. Sometimes i stay up for 18 hours and only sleep a couple to start the next day. But im still puzzled regarding the times when i do sleep normal and wake up normal, and suddenly yawn excessively in mid-afternoon.

[nito]

Nope not tested for apnea. I have heard i make a weird "click-noise" when i breath at night, don't think it's the common snore though. Sometimes i wake up not being able to breath, almost like im drowning. It feels as if liquid got into my wind pipe, it's horrible!

Do you have nasal congestion or sinusitis or anything like that ?
Could you be having GERD (acid reflux) symptoms ?
Some sort of obstructive sleep apnea is also a possibility.

Don't think i have what you mentioned as i have not been tested for anything. Maybe i could just get bloodtest for iron levels to start with. I do sometimes wake up with nose bleeding on my left side, which is due to an injury i underwent when i was around 7.

[rwac]

Don't think i have what you mentioned as i have not been tested for anything. Maybe i could just get bloodtest for iron levels to start with. I do sometimes wake up with nose bleeding on my left side, which is due to an injury i underwent when i was around 7.

Here's a simple thing to try.
Use a breathe-right strip or something similar that helps with snoring.
That might help if your apnea is not too severe.

http://www.breatheright.com/
http://www.iherb.com...trips/5907?at=0

[magellan]

I have taken antivirals for CFS.
Quite a few including very strong antibiotics as well as myriad supplements. Mild transient effects, if any.
Meditation daily has worked for me in conjunction with high doses of piracetam.
Neurofeedback could offer potential and neurostim has helped my sleep quality.
Difficult to say because right now synaptine is pretty much keeping me in a zen state.

[cfs1998]

"We are confident that our results show there is no link between XMRV and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, at least in the UK. The US study had some dramatic results that implied people with the illness could be treated with anti-retrovirals. Our recommendation to people with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome would be not to change their treatment regime, because our results suggest that anti-retrovirals would not be an effective treatment for the condition," added Professor McClure.

The study was crap, published in Plos One after three days of peer review (as opposed to six months for the Science article), the research conducted by British psychiatrists who are already bound to their own preconceived psychological theories that they've been promulgating for years--in spite of a large body of research that disproves a psychological pathogenesis. They have an agenda, they need to protect their theories and their reputations. The Whittemore Peterson Institute which was responsible for the Science paper is a nonprofit institute started by the parents of a CFS patient, and its only agenda is finding the cause and a cure.

WPI's response can be found here:
http://www.wpinstitu...wein_010610.pdf

I don't suppose anyone would consider a placebo controlled trial to see if antivirals actually help CFS patients.

There's been placebo controlled trials using antivirals (actually, antiherpetics) in CFIDS/CFS with mild to moderate success.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18019402

This seems congruous with WPI's hypothesis that XMRV sets up a deficient immune response resulting in an ability to control common pathogens such as herpes viruses. This could explain why drugs like Valtrex often produce an improvement but usually not a cure. A retrovirus certainly makes sense because it would connect all the puzzle pieces of CFIDS together. CFS/CFIDS/ME is considered an immunological and neurological disease--and retroviruses cause exactly those two types of diseases.

[laurenthyme]

I've been diagnosed with CFS and Fibromyalgia for 35 years, very ill, on SS disability. I went to the Amen Clinic for help psychological (brain scan) but it was a total waste of time and money $3200. Then I went to Fibro and Fatigue Center in Tacoma, Wa, based on Dr. Teitelbaum's protocol. I've been on their protocol for about 2 months and I'm getting well!! I found that all my many psychological problems seem to be primarily physical from mitichondrial collapse, hypothalmus disfunction, adrenal, thyroid, pituatary collapses, and low hormones, plus a few other problems from the tidal wave effect of system collapse.