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Schizophrenia treatment a nootropic issue


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#1 gwen

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Posted 06 February 2010 - 07:37 PM


Actually i'm more focused in schizophrenia research issues,i considere that his caracteristic implication of glutamate deficience system is actually one of the more important target in nootropic strategy.
We know quite well the nootropics issues derived from alzheimer,parkinson,depression investigacion (acetylcholine,dopamine and serotonin precursors, IMAO's etc etc...) but the comprehension of the shizophrenia mechanisms and his potential nootropic treament have been subestimed or simply unknows in the comunity.Simplifying,the disease is characterized by "positive symptoms"result of the D2 receptor overactivity in ganglio basal (mesolimbic) on the one hand and a hypometabolism in the rest of cortex particulary in D1 prefrontal receptors (negative symptoms).Negative symptoms are principaly vinculed with deficience in comunications capacity,poor creativity in speech ,linguistic cognition in general,working memory and a subtyp of depression/apaty lack of motivation , consequently social and affective retraction.

Until recently shizophrenia treatment was focused to control positive symptoms with D2 antagonists ( typical antipsychotics) wich not improve cognitive syptoms and any atypicals with sligt improvement.More recently glutamate hypofunction has been implicated in the dopamine mesolimbic/mesocortex unbalance ,NMDA circuit modulate dopamine neurons
inhibiting D2 activity though dopamine mesolimbic pathway and "activing" the projection of corical pyramidal neurons to dopamines neurons in prefrontal cortex from the tegmental area.
Then that is the point,NMDA agonists and coagonists are under investigacion(some of then in phase 3),they have show to be effective,specially for improve negative/cognitive symptoms .NMDA coagonists seems tu be particulary interesants ,they don't show to have a risk of exitotoxicity like direct agonists (maybe taurine or magnesium could help in this case?)Further this strategy could be more effective in comparison to simply take dopamine precursors or IMAO to release dopamine.
Besides that,AMPAkines have show to be effective and are in investigacion too and also is being considered neurotrofic treatments for HPA but is another story...

Treatment issues for shizophrenia cognitive symptoms could be very interesants to our purposes.

#2 gwen

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 04:50 PM

I know my english is pathetic LOL but nobody is curious about this subject?? wowww



Piracetam in the treatment of schizophrenia: implications for the glutamate hypothesis of schizophrenia.

Noorbala AA, Akhondzadeh S, Davari-Ashtiani R, Amini-Nooshabadi H.

Roozbeh Psychiatric Hospital, Tehran University of Medical Sciences, Tehran, Iran.

OBJECTIVE: There is a growing interest in investigating the role of glutamate receptors in the pathophysiology of schizophrenia. Indeed, the hyperdopaminergic theory of schizophrenia can explain only the positive symptoms of schizophrenia, whereas the glutamate hypothesis may provide a more comprehensive view of the illness. We undertook a trial to investigate whether the combination of haloperidol with piracetam, a nootropic agent which modulates the glutamate receptor positively was more effective than haloperidol alone. METHODS: Thirty patients who met the DSM IV criteria for schizophrenia completed the study. Patients were allocated in a random fashion, 14 to haloperidol 30 mg/day plus piracetam 3200 mg/day and 16 to haloperidol 30 mg/day plus placebo. RESULTS: Although both protocols significantly decreased the score of the positive symptoms, the negative symptoms, the general psychopathological symptoms and the total score of PANSS scale over the trial period, the combination of haloperidol and piracetam showed a significant superiority over haloperidol alone in the treatment of schizophrenic patients. CONCLUSION: Piracetam, a member of the nootropic class of drugs and a positive modulator of glutamate receptor, may be of therapeutic benefit in treating schizophrenic patients in combination with typical neuroleptics. However, a larger study to confirm our results is warranted.

PMID: 10583700 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]




Long-term potentiation depends on release of D-serine from astrocytes.

Henneberger C, Papouin T, Oliet SH, Rusakov DA.

UCL Institute of Neurology, University College London, London WC1N 3BG, UK.

Long-term potentiation (LTP) of synaptic transmission provides an experimental model for studying mechanisms of memory. The classical form of LTP relies on N-methyl-D-aspartate receptors (NMDARs), and it has been shown that astroglia can regulate their activation through Ca(2+)-dependent release of the NMDAR co-agonist D-serine. Release of D-serine from glia enables LTP in cultures and explains a correlation between glial coverage of synapses and LTP in the supraoptic nucleus. However, increases in Ca(2+) concentration in astroglia can also release other signalling molecules, most prominently glutamate, ATP and tumour necrosis factor-alpha, whereas neurons themselves can synthesize and supply D-serine. Furthermore, loading an astrocyte with exogenous Ca(2+) buffers does not suppress LTP in hippocampal area CA1 (refs 14-16), and the physiological relevance of experiments in cultures or strong exogenous stimuli applied to astrocytes has been questioned. The involvement of glia in LTP induction therefore remains controversial. Here we show that clamping internal Ca(2+) in individual CA1 astrocytes blocks LTP induction at nearby excitatory synapses by decreasing the occupancy of the NMDAR co-agonist sites. This LTP blockade can be reversed by exogenous D-serine or glycine, whereas depletion of D-serine or disruption of exocytosis in an individual astrocyte blocks local LTP. We therefore demonstrate that Ca(2+)-dependent release of D-serine from an astrocyte controls NMDAR-dependent plasticity in many thousands of excitatory synapses nearby.

PMID: 20075918 [PubMed - in process]






D-Serine and a glycine transporter inhibitor Sarcosine improve MK-801-induced cognitive deficits in a novel object recognition test in rats.

Karasawa J, Hashimoto K, Chaki S.

Discovery Pharmacology, Molecular Function and Pharmacology Laboratories, Taisho Pharmaceutical Co. Ltd., 1-403 Yoshino-cho, Kita-ku, Saitama 331-9530, Japan.

Compounds enhancing N-methyl-d-aspartate (NMDA) glutamate receptor function have been reported to improve cognitive deficits. Since cognitive deficits are considered to be the core symptom of schizophrenia, enhancing NMDA receptor function represents a promising approach to treating schizophrenia. In the present study, we investigated whether d-serine or a glycine transporter inhibitor N-[3-(4'-fluorophenyl)-3-(4'-phenylphenoxy)propyl]sarcosine (NFPS), both of which enhance NMDA receptor function, could improve MK-801-induced cognitive deficits in rats, and compared their effects with those of the atypical antipsychotic clozapine and of the typical antipsychotic haloperidol. To assess cognitive function, we used a novel object recognition test in rats that measured spontaneous exploratory activity of a novel object when paired with a familiar object. We then evaluated the effects of the compounds on cognitive deficits induced by treatment with MK-801, the NMDA receptor antagonist. Pretreatment with clozapine (1, 5 mg/kg, i.p.) but not haloperidol (0.03, 0.1 mg/kg, i.p.) significantly improved MK-801-induced cognitive deficits. Pretreatment with D-serine at 800 mg/kg (i.p.) or NFPS (0.3, 1 mg/kg, i.p.) significantly improved MK-801-induced cognitive deficits under this test paradigm. These findings suggest that impaired preference for novel objects induced by MK-801 in the novel object recognition test could be a useful animal model for evaluating the efficacy of compounds targeting the cognitive deficits observed in schizophrenic patients. The results also suggest that enhancing NMDA receptor function is an effective way for treating the cognitive deficits associated with schizophrenia.

PMID: 17854919 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Edited by gwen, 08 February 2010 - 05:20 PM.

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#3 russianBEAR

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 08:50 PM

Well, there are various types of schizophrenia, requiring different treatments. I'm no expert on this subject, but having talked to a few doctors, they all say that they never prescribe Piracetam without tranquilizers, and mostly go with antidepressants, antipsychotics, or benzos to hold off any potential psychostimulant effects of noots. 

Around here though, they love to load you up full of sedatives, because they don't trust you with your newly acquired mental faculties :) 

Pantogam (hopatenic acid) is used in treatments of certain types of scizophrenia, with or without antidepressants, according to the instruction manual.




That's about all I can add.
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#4 Animal

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 11:05 PM

Around here though, they love to load you up full of sedatives, because they don't trust you with your newly acquired mental faculties :) 


The last thing that someone with schizophrenia needs is a psychostimulant.

#5 russianBEAR

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 11:10 PM

There's what they call "scizophernia with prevailing apathy and loss of motivation" so they prescribe some noots (Pantogam) for that exact cause. The instruction manual still suggests to use it with antidepressants and tranquilizers.

All noots are psychostimulants, so they're just trying to tread carefully.




Those with more agressive forms of scizophrenia shuold probably also stay away from benzos as well, although doctors have no problem prescribing them for life...a good way to go even more nuts...

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#6 gwen

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 01:25 PM

Psychostimulants are not a problem in schizophrenia provided that they no implicate any mechanism in relation with D2r agonism what could exacerbate psychotic symptoms.In fact,Modafinil for example is used for cognitive symptoms treatment without any "tranquilizers".

russianBEAR i think you mean psychoactiv when you say all noots are psychostimulants ,right?

Besides that,the basic idea would further the potential of NMDA agonism strategy for cognitive symptoms.


PS:Any misunderstanding is sponsored by Google traductor :p

#7 russianBEAR

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 01:29 PM

Psychostimulants are not a problem in schizophrenia provided that they no implicate any mechanism in relation with D2r agonism what could exacerbate psychotic symptoms.In fact,Modafinil for example is used for cognitive symptoms treatment without any "tranquilizers".

russianBEAR i think you mean psychoactiv when you say all noots are psychostimulants ,right?

Besides that,the basic idea would further the potential of NMDA agonism strategy for cognitive symptoms.


PS:Any misunderstanding is sponsored by Google traductor :p

No, I mean psychostimulants...psychoactive could imply a variety of effects, even those that aren't stimulating per se...alcohol for instance is psychoactive...Every nootropic's instruction manual says they have "psychostimulating" properties. Meaning they stimulate just the brain...amphetamines are more central nervous system stimulants...all of that is intertwined but I guess it's about the mechanism of action.


It's very likely though that I dunno the corresponding term in English for this...

Around here though they'd rather just subdue you to the point of total vegetation if you got schizophrenia...they'd rather not take a risk on you "healing" then being out in public...so they just kill you basically with sedatives...

#8 YoungSchizo

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Posted 23 September 2010 - 03:09 PM

Actually i'm more focused in schizophrenia research issues,i considere that his caracteristic implication of glutamate deficience system is actually one of the more important target in nootropic strategy.
We know quite well the nootropics issues derived from alzheimer,parkinson,depression investigacion (acetylcholine,dopamine and serotonin precursors, IMAO's etc etc...) but the comprehension of the shizophrenia mechanisms and his potential nootropic treament have been subestimed or simply unknows in the comunity.Simplifying,the disease is characterized by "positive symptoms"result of the D2 receptor overactivity in ganglio basal (mesolimbic) on the one hand and a hypometabolism in the rest of cortex particulary in D1 prefrontal receptors (negative symptoms).Negative symptoms are principaly vinculed with deficience in comunications capacity,poor creativity in speech ,linguistic cognition in general,working memory and a subtyp of depression/apaty lack of motivation , consequently social and affective retraction.

Until recently shizophrenia treatment was focused to control positive symptoms with D2 antagonists ( typical antipsychotics) wich not improve cognitive syptoms and any atypicals with sligt improvement.More recently glutamate hypofunction has been implicated in the dopamine mesolimbic/mesocortex unbalance ,NMDA circuit modulate dopamine neurons
inhibiting D2 activity though dopamine mesolimbic pathway and "activing" the projection of corical pyramidal neurons to dopamines neurons in prefrontal cortex from the tegmental area.
Then that is the point,NMDA agonists and coagonists are under investigacion(some of then in phase 3),they have show to be effective,specially for improve negative/cognitive symptoms .NMDA coagonists seems tu be particulary interesants ,they don't show to have a risk of exitotoxicity like direct agonists (maybe taurine or magnesium could help in this case?)Further this strategy could be more effective in comparison to simply take dopamine precursors or IMAO to release dopamine.
Besides that,AMPAkines have show to be effective and are in investigacion too and also is being considered neurotrofic treatments for HPA but is another story...

Treatment issues for shizophrenia cognitive symptoms could be very interesants to our purposes.


Hi Gwen,

I am paranoid schizophrenic and mainly have the negatives and cognition issues. I am interested in Nootropics for treating my issues, which drugs do you suggest for treating these issues?
(I'm searching and keep searching that there must be something to counteract these issues. I can use a lot of help on this subject..)

#9 SE102

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Posted 23 September 2010 - 04:40 PM

Actually i'm more focused in schizophrenia research issues,i considere that his caracteristic implication of glutamate deficience system is actually one of the more important target in nootropic strategy.
We know quite well the nootropics issues derived from alzheimer,parkinson,depression investigacion (acetylcholine,dopamine and serotonin precursors, IMAO's etc etc...) but the comprehension of the shizophrenia mechanisms and his potential nootropic treament have been subestimed or simply unknows in the comunity.Simplifying,the disease is characterized by "positive symptoms"result of the D2 receptor overactivity in ganglio basal (mesolimbic) on the one hand and a hypometabolism in the rest of cortex particulary in D1 prefrontal receptors (negative symptoms).Negative symptoms are principaly vinculed with deficience in comunications capacity,poor creativity in speech ,linguistic cognition in general,working memory and a subtyp of depression/apaty lack of motivation , consequently social and affective retraction.

Until recently shizophrenia treatment was focused to control positive symptoms with D2 antagonists ( typical antipsychotics) wich not improve cognitive syptoms and any atypicals with sligt improvement.More recently glutamate hypofunction has been implicated in the dopamine mesolimbic/mesocortex unbalance ,NMDA circuit modulate dopamine neurons
inhibiting D2 activity though dopamine mesolimbic pathway and "activing" the projection of corical pyramidal neurons to dopamines neurons in prefrontal cortex from the tegmental area.
Then that is the point,NMDA agonists and coagonists are under investigacion(some of then in phase 3),they have show to be effective,specially for improve negative/cognitive symptoms .NMDA coagonists seems tu be particulary interesants ,they don't show to have a risk of exitotoxicity like direct agonists (maybe taurine or magnesium could help in this case?)Further this strategy could be more effective in comparison to simply take dopamine precursors or IMAO to release dopamine.
Besides that,AMPAkines have show to be effective and are in investigacion too and also is being considered neurotrofic treatments for HPA but is another story...

Treatment issues for shizophrenia cognitive symptoms could be very interesants to our purposes.


Hi Gwen,

I am paranoid schizophrenic and mainly have the negatives and cognition issues. I am interested in Nootropics for treating my issues, which drugs do you suggest for treating these issues?
(I'm searching and keep searching that there must be something to counteract these issues. I can use a lot of help on this subject..)



I tried DMAE-H3 and it killed off some of my symptoms, (minor auditory hallucinations and some minor paranoia) but I don't know that it would work the same for you. I wouldn't try a psycho-stimulant.

#10 dilenja

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Posted 23 September 2010 - 06:49 PM

Have you tried Niacin? In large quantities it is thought to be therapeutic for schizophrenia. One ancedotal experience for example describes a mother who upon giving her son 40grams of Inositol Hexanicotinate noticed alleviation of positive as well as negative symptoms. A search for 'niacin and schizophrenia' should yield a considerable amount of reading material for you on google.


Sigma-1 agonists also appear to demonstrate effiicacy in treating psychotic depression due to their downstream effects on the regulation of glutamate and dopamine, and may also be worth your consideration. Plenty of reading and literature as well available online.

www.dovepress.com/getfile.php?fileID=5596
http://www.ncbi.nlm....4-859X-9-23.pdf

#11 YoungSchizo

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 07:29 PM

Have you tried Niacin? In large quantities it is thought to be therapeutic for schizophrenia. One ancedotal experience for example describes a mother who upon giving her son 40grams of Inositol Hexanicotinate noticed alleviation of positive as well as negative symptoms. A search for 'niacin and schizophrenia' should yield a considerable amount of reading material for you on google.


Sigma-1 agonists also appear to demonstrate effiicacy in treating psychotic depression due to their downstream effects on the regulation of glutamate and dopamine, and may also be worth your consideration. Plenty of reading and literature as well available online.

www.dovepress.com/getfile.php?fileID=5596
http://www.ncbi.nlm....4-859X-9-23.pdf


Cool, thanks! I'm curious if a orthomolecular approach will fix things!

Though, I'm still interested what nootropics has to offer.
Without the psychosis (when stable) I have issues with:

Attention
My attitude/Personality
Cognition
Creative thinking
Decision making
Emotions
Feelings
Imagination
Learning
Memory
Motivation
Speech
(I only use vitamin complex, omega3, vitamin C)

Since my first psychosis all above also 'vanished', psychiatry does not provide solution for these issues!

Health issues:
Anxiety
Depression
Confusion
Brain fog
Sleep disorder
Stress management

For these issues I use: tranquilizers, anti-depressants, anti-psychotics and have to go to therapy! (with this I manage to be ok)

Any more advice is very welcome..

Edited by YoungS, 24 September 2010 - 07:34 PM.


#12 Leukippos

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 07:40 PM

Around here though, they love to load you up full of sedatives, because they don't trust you with your newly acquired mental faculties :) 


The last thing that someone with schizophrenia needs is a psychostimulant.


Hee-hee.  :ph34r:

#13 NR2(x)

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 02:12 AM

russianBEAR, on Feb 8 2010, 08:50 PM, said:

Around here though, they love to load you up full of sedatives, because they don't trust you with your newly acquired mental faculties


The last thing that someone with schizophrenia needs is a psychostimulant.


Before you repeat the estalished dogmas, I suggest you comphrend the significance of Utlility Maximisation. I suggest that a sound grounding in Economics,Law and Histroy will give you the context to understand general vested interests, and the status quo as it stands.
This should allow you to understand when you are being sold a lie.

It is apparent that schizophrenia is a neurogenerative disease typifed by hypometablic biology. I wonder why the "treatment' that is offered, decreases metabolic output, decrease glutamate/plasticity and kills a significant percentage of patients. I wonder why psyc are paid to administer generic antipsych? Who pays, because manufactures of a generic drug have no incentive to pay. It can be shown that sigma-2 agonist are the real treatment for the negatives symptoms. While Positive symptoms are generally explainable as comphrension above one intelligence, with elements of fixation. I w
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#14 dilenja

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 04:19 AM

It can be shown that sigma-2 agonist are the real treatment for the negatives symptoms. While Positive symptoms are generally explainable as comphrension above one intelligence, with elements of fixation.



Just for clarification, I think you may be mistaking sigma-2 for sigma-1 perhaps?

Edited by chrono, 25 September 2010 - 02:34 PM.
fixed quote tag


#15 chrono

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 02:43 PM

Nicotinic modulation has received some attention for treating schizophrenia, though results are mixed, and dosage seems to be hard to pin down. Not recommending it, and I definitely wouldn't recommend experimenting with ibogaine unless you really know what you're doing, since psychedelics are a potentially horrible idea for someone with an established psychosis. Hopefully thinking out loud will never give anyone the wrong idea.

Targeting alpha7 nicotinic acetylcholine receptors in the treatment of schizophrenia.
Hajós M, Rogers BN.

The most abundant homomeric nicotinic acetylcholine receptors (nAChRs) in the mammalian brain are the pentameric alpha7 nAChRs which consist of five alpha7 subunits, and each subunit provides an orthosteric low affinity binding site for its endogenous ligand, acetylcholine. Distribution and high level expression of alpha7 nAChRs within the limbic circuitry, including the hippocampus and prefrontal cortical areas are in line with their involvement in various cognitive functions. Activation of alpha7 nAChRs generates a conformational change of sub-unit proteins, making the channel permeable to cations, in particular calcium, leading to change in neuronal activity and excitability, and via increased intracellular calcium, modulating transmitter release and neuronal network activity. Since genetic linkage studies implicated the alpha7 nAChRs subunit gene CHRNA7 in schizophrenia, there is a considerable interest for developing drug therapies targeting alpha7 nAChRs. In this review recent development of selective agonists and positive allosteric modulators of alpha7 nAChRs are discussed. In addition to summarizing medicinal chemistry efforts, both cellular and neuronal network pharmacology of alpha7 nAChRs are covered. The association between CHRNA7 gene and impaired P50 auditory gating has provided an attractive endophenotype, and its use as a potential translational biomarker for alpha7 nAChRs drug discovery is discussed. Preliminary clinical findings on alpha7 nAChRs agonists are also summarized.

PMID: 19909231 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



And KYNA pathways might offer a novel treatment in the future:

Cortical kynurenine pathway metabolism: a novel target for cognitive enhancement in Schizophrenia.
Wonodi I, Schwarcz R.

The brain concentration of kynurenic acid (KYNA), a metabolite of the kynurenine pathway of tryptophan degradation and antagonist at both the glycine coagonist site of the N-methyl-D-aspartic acid receptor (NMDAR) and the alpha7 nicotinic acetylcholine receptor (alpha7nAChR), is elevated in the prefrontal cortex (PFC) of individuals with schizophrenia. This increase may be clinically relevant because hypofunction of both the NMDAR and the alpha7nAChR are implicated in the pathophysiology, and especially in the cognitive deficits associated with the disease. In rat PFC, fluctuations in endogenous KYNA levels bidirectionally modulate extracellular levels of 3 neurotransmitters closely related to cognitive function (glutamate, dopamine, and acetylcholine). Moreover, behavioral studies in rats have demonstrated a causal link between increased cortical KYNA levels and neurocognitive deficits, including impairment in spatial working memory, contextual learning, sensory gating, and prepulse inhibition of the startle reflex. In recent human postmortem studies, impairments in gene expression and activity of kynurenine pathway enzymes were found in cortical areas of individuals with schizophrenia. Additional studies have revealed an interesting association between a sequence variant in the gene of one of these enzymes, kynurenine 3-monooxygenase, and neurocognitive deficits seen in patients. The emerging, remarkable confluence of data from humans and animals suggests an opportunity for developing a rational pharmacology by targeting cortical kynurenine pathway metabolism for cognition enhancement in schizophrenia and beyond.

PMID: 20147364 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


Sorry I don't have any practical suggestions. There have been a few discussions here in the recent past (in non-schizophrenia-titled threads), so a google search might yield some more ideas.

Edited by chrono, 25 September 2010 - 02:50 PM.


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#16 NR2(x)

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Posted 27 September 2010 - 08:01 AM

Could you delete the objectional material, i do tend to forget that these are public forums that anyone can view. I will do my best to keep this in mind.

I understand the hypoactivity of NR1a(NMDAR) is most readily targetable deficit in schiz. At the start of the "DXM induce psychosis" thread there is material that maybe of assistance. Your idea of D-serine or D-cycloserine would be a good start, as its a coagonist to the NR1a. THe NR1a plays a very important role in maintaining the neural network. Serine is a food, so apart from precautionary dosing, clinical studies are not required. I think there is actually alot of material around already. Parkinsons disease could be a good model for the negative effects, as i understand the causes are rather similar. Learning about glutamate will be well rewarded.
Heres some reading

Distinct Roles of Synaptic and Extrasynaptic NMDA Receptors in Excitotoxicity
http://www.jneurosci...nt/full/20/1/22

Neuronal viability is controlled by a functional relation between synaptic and extrasynaptic NMDA receptors
http://www.fasebj.or...full/22/12/4258

Differential Roles of NMDA Receptor Subtypes in Ischemic Neuronal Cell Death and Ischemic Tolerance
http://stroke.ahajou...full/39/11/3042




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