33 replies to this topic

[Bruce Klein]

Here's a links to Kass's discussion against Immortality:

http://www.petersnet...browse/4149.htm



Also, Simon Smith published an article on Kass quoting yours truely lol
http://www.betterhum...ID=2002-12-03-4

[Limitless]

Thanks for that e-mail, BJ!

Unfortunately, I picked it up after the TTA met Wednesday night, but it turns out that I was busy at the time anyway. I believe the Toronto Transhumanist Association meets every month, so I'll try to attend the next meeting, whenever it is........I'll tell you what the people there are like, too. Maybe I'll even be able to help promote the Immortality Institute in Toronto, when I have a few things in place........I have a few ideas.........I'll have to raise some money.

[The White Wolf]

I just wanted to say that after reading all of this I am amazed at "everything" that member "Limitless" has said!! I would really like to get some one on one conversation going with you. Your views on all of this...is...well, amazing. I actually agree with all you have said. Which is a rare thing in "my" mind. B) well...I'm out...

[Casanova]

Very few thigns make me mad, but people wanting me dead is one of them

You can't live in a material/energy body for eternity.

I am religious/spiritual, and my view on this immortality issue is this.

The technology for radically extending the life-span of a human being will be developed.
It would be an interesting adventure to live for a long, long, time. I for one, would like to explore the universe, in a space-time machine.

However, where I find the fatal flaw in all this immortality talk, is that atheism, and a godless universe, is always tagged onto this thing. Why?
Granted some religions are intolerant of a the idea of "artificial-techno based" immortality, but not all religions are. Kass even mentions Rabbi's he has spoken to who find nothing wrong with the idea of living for a very, very, long time.

This insistence on making the equation: Immortality = a godless universe, is just plain stupid, You are shooting yourselves in the foot with that notion.

The best way to go would be to admit that there is Godhead, that created this corporeal universe for the fun of the adventure; the notion of the Play of God.
But that this designed universe, is a temporary bubble of time in eternity. The bubble will pop one day, and all of us will return to our Source in eternity, which is the Godhead, itself.
So, while the bubble of time exists, we can have a field day, living as long as we want to, with the knowledge however, that the time bubble will pop, eventually.
We can become quasi-Immortals within the universal bubble of time, but the only way we can become Eternals, is when we return to the eternal Godhead.
The Godhead will then create/design another universe, and the whole thing will begin again, for the sentient creatures living within that new bubble of time.

This is a much richer, and warmer, version of existence than what someone like Kurzweil has to offer.

There is no punishing God; in fact freedom is a graceful gift given to use by the Godhead, so attempts at Immortality are not sinful. Foolish maybe, but not sinful.

I watched my mother die of breast cancer. It was horrible beyond description. I have no desire to end up that way.
I am not trashing life extension, and perfect health. What I am questioning is what we are going to do with it, who is going to get it, are we wise enough at this time to handle it, and will the dark side of human nature turn the whole life extension enterprise, malign, not sinful, but possible evil, in a secular sense.

Edited by Casanova, 13 July 2003 - 11:16 PM.