3 replies to this topic

[viltro]

I just took part in a study that involved lying. During the test I was very self-aware but felt like my brain was on a sort of autopilot, able to integrate the lies. Afterwards I was told I had fooled the interviewer (some sort of psychologist I think - I wasn't told specifics) which apparently isn't very common. Hopefully I'll be able to access the results at some point to compare.

I'm tempted to say the piracetam is what allowed me to lie so effectively.. I don't tend to lie, certainly not in such a formal situation, so it's hard to tell, but I think the lying was quite a thinking challenge and brought the subtlties of piracetam to the surface. I really wish I could have done a before piracetam test. And just in case anyone worries, I checked and supplementation like piracetam doesn't affect the study due to the nature of the research.

Anyway, my point is, what are some good tests we could use to measure improvement in cognitive ability? What do you prefer? There are a number of brain games, etc out there; what do they use in research studies? Perhaps there are some out of the box methods?

[chrono]

A device that comes to mind is the memory drum, which was used in a study on healthy adults to show that piracetam increased verbal memory. There must be a computerized equivalent now.

I think there's a danger in regarding clinical behavior tests as conclusive and/or comprehensive, when they are usually reductionist, artificial and merely indicative. Current methods for measuring things like generosity or risk-taking can involve simple thought experiment games played out in an interviewer's office, and having very little in common with how these traits are applied IRL. I'd be curious to hear more about the framework of your study, but you might not be able to discuss it.

It's important to remember that most aspects of subjective experience can't be measured objectively with our current understanding of the brain. This seems to come up frequently with regard to pircetam (for insatnce). I notice a huge improvement in areas of verbal eloquence, concept formulation, and motivation (among others), but how are these to be measured in an artificial clinical environment, in which I'm aware I'm being tested? I think it's important to keep in mind that the existence of the placebo effect doesn't entirely negate the value of anecdotal evidence; sometimes the only way to "measure" modulations of awareness is by becoming aware of them.

Am very interested in this question as well, I'll dig through my references this week for some more examples of cognition/memory tests.

Edited by chrono, 10 February 2010 - 01:42 AM.

[cuziamthecaptain]

A device that comes to mind is the memory drum, which was used in a study on healthy adults to show that piracetam increased verbal memory. There must be a computerized equivalent now.

I think there's a danger in regarding clinical behavior tests as conclusive and/or comprehensive, when they are usually reductionist, artificial and merely indicative. Current methods for measuring things like generosity or risk-taking can involve simple thought experiment games played out in an interviewer's office, and having very little in common with how these traits are applied IRL. I'd be curious to hear more about the framework of your study, but you might not be able to discuss it.

It's important to remember that most aspects of subjective experience can't be measured objectively with our current understanding of the brain. This seems to come up frequently with regard to pircetam (for insatnce). I notice a huge improvement in areas of verbal eloquence, concept formulation, and motivation (among others), but how are these to be measured in an artificial clinical environment, in which I'm aware I'm being tested? I think it's important to keep in mind that the existence of the placebo effect doesn't entirely negate the value of anecdotal evidence; sometimes the only way to "measure" modulations of awareness is by becoming aware of them.

Am very interested in this question as well, I'll dig through my references this week for some more examples of cognition/memory tests.

I'd do the n-back test (google it). It's a free test. You could take it free of the supplament, then take the supplement and take the test at the same time of the day and compare scores. just wait a few days before taking the test again as you will improve your score with practice.

[viltro]

I'd be curious to hear more about the framework of your study, but you might not be able to discuss it.

TBH, I don't know much about it. I believe it is to do with new/alternative means of lie detection. From what I understand, the idea behind the study is to compare the effectiveness of "human lie detectors" vs new comptuerised visual systems. My challenge as a subject was to memorise a fictional character profile and integrate it into my own life - I had to tell truths about some things and lies about others. I hope I will get access to the paper in some form soon.

I'd do the n-back test (google it).

Yup, I believe it has also been shown to improve cognitive ability through frequent use. There's lots of variations on the Internet, definitely worth trying for anyone interested.